[Year 12 SofDev] Legal Last Word
Russell Quinn
QN at boxhillhs.vic.edu.au
Wed Sep 17 11:23:36 EST 2008
Thanks Adrian and others,
it is a very good discussion topic,
and an excellent example of where
a definitive answer may not be possible,
the quality of the argument is the issue.
I suspect cloud computing might be
a candidate at some stage. Does anyone
other than goggle think centralisation is
a good thing?
Russell Quinn
Mailto: qn at boxhillhs.vic.edu.au
From: sofdev-request at edulists.com.au
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2. RE: RE: Legal Advice (Adrian Janson)
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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 10:10:14 +1000
From: Russell Quinn <QN at boxhillhs.vic.edu.au>
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Legal Advice
To: <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID: <D0BB6893-956B-45E7-A345-099373F7A633 at mimectl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Ta for the reply,
I was thinking along the lines of
informed consent, particularly given the
buried nature of the statement. However,
if the information is not really private
(as in an employee record), perhaps
it does not need to be included. It is
legitimate for employers to monitor their
employees although the broadcast aspect
is a bit of a twist.
Russell Quinn
Mailto: qn at boxhillhs.vic.edu.au
From: sofdev-request at edulists.com.au
Sent: Wed 17/09/2008 9:59 AM
To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
Subject: sofdev Digest, Vol 43, Issue 29
Send sofdev mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:
1. Adrian's SAC 401- Legal Advice (Russell Quinn)
2. RE: Adrian's SAC 401- Legal Advice (Adrian Janson)
3. RE: Adrian's SAC 401- Legal Advice (WEIR Andrew)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:14:01 +1000
From: "Russell Quinn" <QN at boxhillhs.vic.edu.au>
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] Adrian's SAC 401- Legal Advice
To: <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID:
<BOXHILL-ITRC5IBHcDW00000003 at boxhill-itr.boxhillhs.vic.edu.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi all,
I am having trouble working out
If The Web Cam activation is actually illegal.
Would the output constitute an employee record
and is agreeing upon logon binding - given the
shifty way it was implemented?
TIA
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:33:43 +1000
From: "Adrian Janson" <janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au>
Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] Adrian's SAC 401- Legal Advice
To: "'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'"
<sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID:
<006301c91854$a83bf170$f8b3d450$@adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Russell,
One of the reasons that I included the bit about the lengthy licence
agreement is that it has been shown (and I am not sure of how to prove
this.) but lengthy licence agreements like this don't hold any weight in a
court of law as they are highly unethical. Now - I know that unethical and
illegal and two different things (and this is what makes a good discussion
point), but there was a legal case where a court in the US ruled that it was
unreasonable for the user to be expected to read such as lengthy agreement
and then ruled in the favour of the user.
Someone might have some good links for this?
As for the camera footage - not sure about this one, but it is certainly
unethical.
Cheers,
Adrian
Adrian Janson,
VITTA President
Director of ICT,
Melbourne High School,
Forrest Hill, South Yarra 3141 Australia.
Phone: 03 9826 0711 International: +61 3 9826 0711
Fax: 03 9826 8767 International: +61 3 9826 8767
E-mail: <mailto:janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au>
janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au
Website: <http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au> http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au
Blog: <http://jansona.edublogs.org/> http://jansona.edublogs.org
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
On Behalf Of Russell Quinn
Sent: Wednesday, 17 September 2008 9:14 AM
To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] Adrian's SAC 401- Legal Advice
Hi all,
I am having trouble working out
If The Web Cam activation is actually illegal.
Would the output constitute an employee record
and is agreeing upon logon binding - given the
shifty way it was implemented?
TIA
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au> IT Software
Development Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html%20%20>
- Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
http://www.vitta.org.au <http://www.vitta.org.au> - VITTA Victorian
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Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:59:37 +1000
From: "WEIR Andrew" <andrew.weir at thomascarr.vic.edu.au>
Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] Adrian's SAC 401- Legal Advice
To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
<sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID:
<88F750E32F18E24B9AB69528B847BEB8D93E62 at exchangeserver.administration.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Adrian and other,
This is also similar to the issue raised last night on a current affair
(I think) about the Product disclosure statements that come with car
insurance.
How many of us have actually read it word for word. I wonder the the US
case can be adapted to Aus law.
it seems only lawyers don't follow the KISS principle. (Sorry to all
lawyers)
________________________________
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Adrian Janson
Sent: Wednesday, 17 September 2008 9:34 AM
To: 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] Adrian's SAC 401- Legal Advice
Hi Russell,
One of the reasons that I included the bit about the lengthy licence
agreement is that it has been shown (and I am not sure of how to prove
this...) but lengthy licence agreements like this don't hold any weight
in a court of law as they are highly unethical. Now - I know that
unethical and illegal and two different things (and this is what makes a
good discussion point), but there was a legal case where a court in the
US ruled that it was unreasonable for the user to be expected to read
such as lengthy agreement and then ruled in the favour of the user.
Someone might have some good links for this?
As for the camera footage - not sure about this one, but it is certainly
unethical.
Cheers,
Adrian
Adrian Janson,
VITTA President
Director of ICT,
Melbourne High School,
Forrest Hill, South Yarra 3141 Australia.
Phone: 03 9826 0711 International: +61 3 9826 0711
Fax: 03 9826 8767 International: +61 3 9826 8767
E-mail: janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au
<mailto:janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au>
Website: http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au <http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au>
Blog: http://jansona.edublogs.org <http://jansona.edublogs.org/>
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Russell Quinn
Sent: Wednesday, 17 September 2008 9:14 AM
To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] Adrian's SAC 401- Legal Advice
Hi all,
I am having trouble working out
If The Web Cam activation is actually illegal.
Would the output constitute an employee record
and is agreeing upon logon binding - given the
shifty way it was implemented?
TIA
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly
supported by
http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html%20%2
0> - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology
Teachers Association Inc
Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before
opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects.
Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the
negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from
the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying
any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are
those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the
Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly
supported by
http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology
Teachers Association Inc
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 10:20:34 +1000
From: "Adrian Janson" <janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au>
Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Legal Advice
To: "'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'"
<sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID:
<001801c9185b$337adbb0$9a709310$@adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Quite right. I also liked this as an issue - because even though a parent
may give permission for their child to be 'filmed' by the cameras so that
they can view them over the www (either by signing an agreement or not) -
would they then give permission for other parents to be able to view their
children? Or indeed anyone in the world???
BTW: I don't really know the answer or even if there is one - but I like to
see if students can discuss all of the issues in light of the legislation.
Part of the evidence for their not being a completely right answer to many
of these issues is that lawyers often make oodles of money debating these
very things in court - sometimes they win and sometimes they lose! If a
student can put forward a good argument and present both sides - I feel this
is enough in this context.
Cheers,
Adrian
Adrian Janson,
VITTA President
Director of ICT,
Melbourne High School,
Forrest Hill, South Yarra 3141 Australia.
Phone: 03 9826 0711 International: +61 3 9826 0711
Fax: 03 9826 8767 International: +61 3 9826 8767
E-mail: <mailto:janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au>
janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au
Website: <http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au> http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au
Blog: <http://jansona.edublogs.org/> http://jansona.edublogs.org
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
On Behalf Of Russell Quinn
Sent: Wednesday, 17 September 2008 10:10 AM
To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Legal Advice
Ta for the reply,
I was thinking along the lines of
informed consent, particularly given the
buried nature of the statement. However,
if the information is not really private
(as in an employee record), perhaps
it does not need to be included. It is
legitimate for employers to monitor their
employees although the broadcast aspect
is a bit of a twist.
Russell Quinn
Mailto: qn at boxhillhs.vic.edu.au
_____
From: sofdev-request at edulists.com.au
Sent: Wed 17/09/2008 9:59 AM
To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
Subject: sofdev Digest, Vol 43, Issue 29
Send sofdev mailing list submissions to
sofdev at edulists.com.au
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/sofdev
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
sofdev-request at edulists.com.au
You can reach the person managing the list at
sofdev-owner at edulists.com.au
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of sofdev digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Adrian's SAC 401- Legal Advice (Russell Quinn)
2. RE: Adrian's SAC 401- Legal Advice (Adrian Janson)
3. RE: Adrian's SAC 401- Legal Advice (WEIR Andrew)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:14:01 +1000
From: "Russell Quinn" <QN at boxhillhs.vic.edu.au>
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] Adrian's SAC 401- Legal Advice
To: <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID:
<BOXHILL-ITRC5IBHcDW00000003 at boxhill-itr.boxhillhs.vic.edu.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi all,
I am having trouble working out
If The Web Cam activation is actually illegal.
Would the output constitute an employee record
and is agreeing upon logon binding - given the
shifty way it was implemented?
TIA
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:33:43 +1000
From: "Adrian Janson" <janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au>
Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] Adrian's SAC 401- Legal Advice
To: "'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'"
<sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID:
<006301c91854$a83bf170$f8b3d450$@adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Russell,
One of the reasons that I included the bit about the lengthy licence
agreement is that it has been shown (and I am not sure of how to prove
this.) but lengthy licence agreements like this don't hold any weight in a
court of law as they are highly unethical. Now - I know that unethical and
illegal and two different things (and this is what makes a good discussion
point), but there was a legal case where a court in the US ruled that it was
unreasonable for the user to be expected to read such as lengthy agreement
and then ruled in the favour of the user.
Someone might have some good links for this?
As for the camera footage - not sure about this one, but it is certainly
unethical.
Cheers,
Adrian
Adrian Janson,
VITTA President
Director of ICT,
Melbourne High School,
Forrest Hill, South Yarra 3141 Australia.
Phone: 03 9826 0711 International: +61 3 9826 0711
Fax: 03 9826 8767 International: +61 3 9826 8767
E-mail: <mailto:janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au>
janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au
Website: <http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au> http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au
Blog: <http://jansona.edublogs.org/> http://jansona.edublogs.org
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
On Behalf Of Russell Quinn
Sent: Wednesday, 17 September 2008 9:14 AM
To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] Adrian's SAC 401- Legal Advice
Hi all,
I am having trouble working out
If The Web Cam activation is actually illegal.
Would the output constitute an employee record
and is agreeing upon logon binding - given the
shifty way it was implemented?
TIA
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au> IT Software
Development Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html%20%20>
- Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
http://www.vitta.org.au <http://www.vitta.org.au> - VITTA Victorian
Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received
in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using
attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss,
damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or
not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our
liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any
representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender,
and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood
Development.
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:59:37 +1000
From: "WEIR Andrew" <andrew.weir at thomascarr.vic.edu.au>
Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] Adrian's SAC 401- Legal Advice
To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
<sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID:
<88F750E32F18E24B9AB69528B847BEB8D93E62 at exchangeserver.administration.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Adrian and other,
This is also similar to the issue raised last night on a current affair
(I think) about the Product disclosure statements that come with car
insurance.
How many of us have actually read it word for word. I wonder the the US
case can be adapted to Aus law.
it seems only lawyers don't follow the KISS principle. (Sorry to all
lawyers)
________________________________
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Adrian Janson
Sent: Wednesday, 17 September 2008 9:34 AM
To: 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] Adrian's SAC 401- Legal Advice
Hi Russell,
One of the reasons that I included the bit about the lengthy licence
agreement is that it has been shown (and I am not sure of how to prove
this...) but lengthy licence agreements like this don't hold any weight
in a court of law as they are highly unethical. Now - I know that
unethical and illegal and two different things (and this is what makes a
good discussion point), but there was a legal case where a court in the
US ruled that it was unreasonable for the user to be expected to read
such as lengthy agreement and then ruled in the favour of the user.
Someone might have some good links for this?
As for the camera footage - not sure about this one, but it is certainly
unethical.
Cheers,
Adrian
Adrian Janson,
VITTA President
Director of ICT,
Melbourne High School,
Forrest Hill, South Yarra 3141 Australia.
Phone: 03 9826 0711 International: +61 3 9826 0711
Fax: 03 9826 8767 International: +61 3 9826 8767
E-mail: janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au
<mailto:janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au>
Website: http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au <http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au>
Blog: http://jansona.edublogs.org <http://jansona.edublogs.org/>
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Russell Quinn
Sent: Wednesday, 17 September 2008 9:14 AM
To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] Adrian's SAC 401- Legal Advice
Hi all,
I am having trouble working out
If The Web Cam activation is actually illegal.
Would the output constitute an employee record
and is agreeing upon logon binding - given the
shifty way it was implemented?
TIA
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly
supported by
http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html%20%2
0> - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology
Teachers Association Inc
Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before
opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects.
Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the
negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from
the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying
any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are
those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the
Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly
supported by
http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology
Teachers Association Inc
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- Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
http://www.vitta.org.au <http://www.vitta.org.au> - VITTA Victorian
Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
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