[Year 12 SofDev] RE: sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 17
Mark Kelly
kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
Fri Mar 7 09:21:40 EST 2008
I've been a MIS at McKinnon since 1998.
I taught myself BASIC on a 4K RAM TRS-80 in 1978 and spent too many
hours over 20 years on various platforms including Apple ][, Vic-20,
Commodore 64, Microbee, Amiga, PC and a Cyber mainframe playing with
flavours of BASIC, C, Pascal, COBOL, 6502 and Z80 machine code and
assembly language.
I still remember 42E9 as the starting point of the BASIC interpreter in
the TRS-80 ROM. Sigh.
Kevork Krozian wrote:
> Hi Mark,
>
> I know your degree is in English and Psych but for how long have you
> been a network manager ?
> and how /when did you learn programming ?
>
>
> Kind Regards
> Kevork Krozian
> Edulists Creator and Administrator
> www.edulists.com.au
> kevork at edulists.com.au
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Kelly" <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
> To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
> <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
> Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 17
>
>
>> I have a BA in English and Psych - does that count?
>>
>> It would be really helpful to know what PD audiences really wanted to
>> hear. Perhaps VITTA could pre-test people signing up for PD to find
>> what 'favour' they want the PD to be. e.g. "Networking facts" vs "How
>> to teach networking".
>>
>> I remember at the start of the 2003 study design I suggested to VITTA
>> that teachers needed to be taught networking theory rather than how to
>> teach networking to kids, and it was a big hit.
>>
>> Without the knowledge of what an audience really wants to hear, I
>> often have to guess and try to cover 3 areas of interest in one long,
>> fast presentation, hoping to satisfy everyone at least part of the time*.
>>
>> Even teacher PD is a mixed ability classroom :-)
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> * the story of my love life :-(
>>
>> Kevork Krozian wrote:
>>> Hi Theresa,
>>>
>>> Thanks for your honesty in stating it is ok to admit not to know the
>>> technical stuff and this from someone with an info systems degree. Do
>>> all
>>> our SD teachers have a degree in the area ?
>>> And if you are not comfortable with the technical stuff - do I
>>> understand
>>> VPN, client server, WAN technologies, and more here? -- then how many
>>> more without quals feel even less comfortable ?
>>> I concur with your sentiments about the breaking down of the study
>>> design
>>> with little specificity being of little value. Yes, the VITTA CD has
>>> gone
>>> a long way to addressing the lack of specific sample work but there have
>>> been some quality assurance issues related to this.
>>> Futhermore, there is no point in everyone doing the same VITTA sample
>>> SAC from the CD. It is just repeating the problem using a different
>>> source.
>>>
>>> Keep well
>>>
>>>
>>> Kevork Krozian
>>> Mailing List Administrator
>>> kevork at edulists.com.au
>>> www.edulists.com.au
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> In regards to the present topic, I have a degree in Information systems
>>>> and am confident with teaching the theory of Systems analysis and
>>>> design, but feel nervous with some of the technical stuff because it
>>>> has
>>>> changed so much in the past five years since I last taught IS so I
>>>> signed up to the recent VITTA workshops. I was dissapointed with the
>>>> workshops, which basically did no more than break down the Study
>>>> design,
>>>> something I can do myself. I feel that some more specific PD for
>>>> networking, modelling and even programming - like building programs for
>>>> portable devices would really be more helpful.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Theresa Gate
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of
>>>> sofdev-request at edulists.com.au
>>>> Sent: Thursday, 6 March 2008 11:42 AM
>>>> To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
>>>> Subject: sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 17
>>>>
>>>> Send sofdev mailing list submissions to
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>> than
>>>> "Re: Contents of sofdev digest..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Re: Why aren't teachers able to write their own material ?
>>>> (Kevork Krozian)
>>>> 2. Re: Copyright / authorship / solutions / ?? (Mark Kelly)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:32:07 +1100
>>>> From: "Kevork Krozian" <Kroset at novell1.fhc.vic.edu.au>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Why aren't teachers able to write their
>>>> own material ?
>>>> To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
>>>> <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
>>>> Message-ID: <47CFD635.EE3E.0095.0 at novell1.fhc.vic.edu.au>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15
>>>>
>>>> Hi Adrian and Mark,
>>>>
>>>> Very good points but more broadly a symptom of a wider problem we
>>>> keep avoiding.
>>>> If teachers are not confident about assessing a topic ( to say nothing
>>>> about teaching it effectively ) then we need to address this issue.
>>>> I know we are all overworked but if we are teaching a class we need to
>>>> be fair to the students and ourselves.
>>>>
>>>> In reality if you are not an active network manager or Cisco
>>>> instructor, you would struggle to understand networks and maybe not
>>>> know
>>>> a bus network even if you were run over by one.
>>>>
>>>> I know VITTA and the VCAA almost do miracles ( not least in their
>>>> active and meaningful support of Edulists and PD ) but why are teachers
>>>> unable to write their own SACs with confidence and conviction and with
>>>> solutions they can show others ?
>>>>
>>>> I would say because the training and the need for new and current
>>>> training has not kept up with the demands of the course(s). What do we
>>>> do about this ?
>>>>
>>>> I think we need to stop patching these problems with band aids and
>>>> need
>>>> to go up the tree (DEECD, the new Rudd govt. initiative or wherever
>>>> else
>>>> we need to go) where there is decent and proper funding to deliver
>>>> updated courses and training rather than doing it on the cheap.
>>>>
>>>> I don't want to drag down decent hardworking teachers doing the best
>>>> they can with what little they have - I want to lift them .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just my thoughts
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kevork
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Mark Kelly <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au> 6/03/2008 8:28 am >>>
>>>> Good points there, Adrian. I have a gut feeling that people feel rather
>>>>
>>>> more intimidated writing SD outcomes than they do ITA. It's that much
>>>>
>>>> more complex.
>>>>
>>>> In a similar vein, I've just finished writing a commercial practice SD
>>>>
>>>> exam and it took much more thinking than the equivalent ITA exam.
>>>>
>>>> Adrian Janson wrote:
>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a potentially tricky issue - and as one who often posts his
>>>> SAC
>>>>> and theory materials to the lists - one that I must confess is a bit
>>>> of
>>>>> a concern.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Speaking personally, when I post my materials to the lists - I would
>>>>> like to think that those who are making use of them do so in the
>>>> spirit
>>>>> in which they have been posted - giving credit where it is due and
>>>> not
>>>>> altering things with a view to reposting them. I think the part of
>>>> this
>>>>> that is the most worrying is that some material did find its way back
>>>> to
>>>>> me which I had originally authored and posted to the lists - but with
>>>>> another teachers name on it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It may well just need to be the case that when we post materials to
>>>> the
>>>>> lists, we need to state (in the document as well as in the attached
>>>>> email), that the materials are free to use but may not be adapted or
>>>>> changed in any way without the permission of the author*. As I put
>>>> the
>>>>> finishing touches on my 2008 SAC1 - I may well do this before I post
>>>> it
>>>>> to the list? I would be interested to know what others think of
>>>> this?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On another note - something which has been bothering me a great
>>>> deal.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> After the review process took place last year and schools had the
>>>> SACs
>>>>> and Assessments checked by VCAA - it became apparent that a large
>>>> number
>>>>> of the sampled schools had used my SACs (more than half). Of the
>>>>> remaining schools, many had used the VITTA SACs. After posting the
>>>> SACs
>>>>> to the lists, I had many requests for solutions which I tried to
>>>> provide
>>>>> as best I could. I don*t mind doing this - however, I think this
>>>> seems
>>>>> to suggest that there are few SD teachers creating their own original
>>>>> materials and/or solutions.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Now - I don*t mind doing the work and posting it for everyone to
>>>> use. I
>>>>> think doing this is especially valuable to those starting out with
>>>> the
>>>>> SD course or with programming in general. However, if you are
>>>> familiar
>>>>> with the SD course - I think that you could be doing your own
>>>> students a
>>>>> disservice by not writing your own materials and solutions (and hence
>>>>> becoming more familiar with the assessment criteria and the structure
>>>> of
>>>>> the course). In such a circumstance, I think it would be more
>>>>> appropriate for you to use my SAC materials (or any others that are
>>>>> posted) for practice SAC materials and / or inspiration for your own.
>>>>> There is no way I can prevent teachers from simply using my own (or
>>>>> others) work as a method of minimising their own workload - however,
>>>> I
>>>>> would implore those engaging in this practice to think of the bigger
>>>>> picture.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Adrian Janson
>>>>>
>>>>> VITTA President
>>>>>
>>>>> Director of ICT, Melbourne High School
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Poultney,
>>>> Gordon A
>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 5 March 2008 12:13 PM
>>>>> *To:* Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>>> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We are talking about a 2 page SAC here, not the latest from Neal
>>>>> Stephenson...
>>>>>
>>>>> Feel free to do what you want with Shagadelic - just don't put my
>>>> name
>>>>> on it if you change it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you believe in copyright/credit , then Ross' simple attribution
>>>>> scheme looks good.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> gordon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Gordon Poultney
>>>>>
>>>>> Horsham College
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Stephen Digby
>>>>> *Sent:* Wed 5/3/08 11:31
>>>>> *To:* 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
>>>>> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>
>>>>> What about a simpler attribution such as
>>>>>
>>>>> Freds Carpet House v6 "Based on SAC by Mark Kelly 2007. Alterations
>>>> by
>>>>> Stephen Digby 2008, Gordon Poultney 2008"
>>>>>
>>>>> Just as the ridiculous copyright laws reduce the likelihood of
>>>> attribution
>>>>> (less likely to get caught for copyright violation if you remove all
>>>> info
>>>>> re. source).
>>>>>
>>>>> A overly complex attribution process may reduce the likelihood of
>>>> sharing.
>>>>> As it is, most resources that I have are not able to be shared
>>>> because of
>>>>> copyright (i.e. they are not mine to share)
>>>>>
>>>>> Lets develop a 'creative common' approach to as much materials as
>>>>> possible....
>>>>>
>>>>> ====================================================
>>>>> Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager
>>>>> mailto: digby.stephen.p at edumail.vic.gov.au
>>>>> Cheltenham Secondary College www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au
>>>>> Ph: 613 955 55 955 Fx: 9555 8617 Mb: 0431-701-028
>>>>> ====================================================
>>>>>
>>>>> I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat. Winston
>>>>> Churchill
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
>>>>> On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 10:15 AM
>>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List; Year 12 IT
>>>>> Applications Teachers' Mailing List; Year 11 Information Technology
>>>>> Teachers' Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>
>>>>> (I've X-posted to the ITA and year 11 IT lists. Apols in advance.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I see an interesting and potentially worrying point developing here.
>>>>>
>>>>> If we adapt other people's tasks, I think we are obliged to retain
>>>> the
>>>>> version information contained in the task and note ourselves as
>>>> modifiers
>>>>> and let that info stay with the document in its further travels.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know I would be horrified if a task I created was later 'improved'
>>>> by some
>>>>> anonymous person, thereby damaging it or (even worse) rendering it a
>>>>> violation of VCAA rules - with my name still proudly stuck on it as
>>>> if I
>>>>> were solely responsible for its current condition!
>>>>>
>>>>> When we distribute 'adapted' tasks, I recommend that we:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Of course, retain the original author's identity and document
>>>> version
>>>>> number, if they are in the document. Give the poor authors credit
>>>> for their
>>>>> labours!
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Add yourself to the credits as a 'modifier'.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Maybe even summarise your changes (and reasons?) in an addendum at
>>>> the
>>>>> end of the document. This addendum can be removed for printing
>>>> purposes by
>>>>> people who use it later, but it otherwise travels with the document
>>>> as it
>>>>> morphs through the ether.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark
>>>>>
>>>>> Poultney, Gordon A wrote:
>>>>>> i made up the original 'Shagadelic' which sounds like it has
>>>> morphed
>>>>> into something else. There is only 1 network diagram in the original
>>>> - for
>>>>> the new system .there is/was a marking scheme and complete network
>>>> diagram
>>>>> for the teacher too.
>>>>>> cheers Gordon
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------
>>>>>> Gordon Poultney
>>>>>> Horsham College
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Maggie Iaquinto
>>>>>> Sent: Wed 5/3/08 9:14
>>>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ross
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ross
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you were using this practice SAC as the actual one, it would be
>>>>>> difficult to separate the marks for Task 1 (systems analysis and
>>>>>> design
>>>>>> - mistakenly called Task 2 here) from Task 2 (network diagram).
>>>> You
>>>>>> are required to report the marks for the tasks clearly and
>>>> discretely.
>>>>>> Task 1 is 40 marks and Task 2 is 10 marks -- based on 50 for the
>>>>>> Outcome.
>>>>>> In the assessment sheet nearly 25 marks of the 50 are devoted to
>>>> the
>>>>>> network diagram. This makes it tough to report accurately to VCAA
>>>> just
>>>>>> what your students have received, in terms of the balance of
>>>> 40/10.
>>>>>> Task 2 (network diagram) must be for the proposed new system and
>>>> this
>>>>>> document requires the student to diagram the current and the new.
>>>>>> Sure, you can do that but it isn't necessary.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I notice also that there are marks given to presentation of the
>>>> report.
>>>>>> IMHO I would put those marks into a more finely-grained assessment
>>>> of
>>>>>> all the other Key Skills required in this Outcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just an opinion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maggie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 8:36 AM
>>>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the task extended across the holidays, make sure the remaining
>>>> part
>>>>>> is not given to them beforehand so they can't pre-produce stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Claudia Graham wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Ross,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Re the practice SAC not sure who's that is so can't help there
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regarding the use of the internet not something I have done or
>>>> would
>>>>>> do,
>>>>>>> for me it would be too hard to 'patrol'. But as long as all
>>>> students
>>>>>>> have the same conditions it doesn't matter (mind you I don't have
>>>> a
>>>>>>> study design or assessment hand book beside me to check re
>>>>>>> conditions)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Same for the time frame, I assume you mean a lesson or two prior
>>>> to
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> holidays and then some after (or similar), not something I would
>>>> do
>>>>>> just
>>>>>>> for authentication purposes. I would do it all in a few lessons;
>>>> I
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> even like weekends between assessment lessons if I can help it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Claudia Graham
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Overnewton College
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Keilor
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Ogilvie,
>>>> Ross
>>>>>>> A
>>>>>>> *Sent:* 4 March 2008 7:50 PM
>>>>>>> *To:* sofdev at edulists.com.au
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In regard to SD I have a couple of questions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. I have given my class a **Practice SAC** called **Shagadelic
>>>>>>> Carpets** (refer to attachment) (hope the author is OK with
>>>> this).
>>>>>>> My
>>>>>>> question is....does anyone have the solutions so I can check if I
>>>> am
>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the right track.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. When I give my students the actual SAC:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i. Can/should they access the internet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ii. Would there be a problem (in Vic) if the SAC extended
>>>> through
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Term One holiday period into Term Two.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kindest Regards
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **Ross Ogilvie **
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **LSF ICT Leader **
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **Sunbury**** College**
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **30 Racecourse Rd****, Sunbury 3429**
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **Ph (W) 9744 1066 **
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ** (H) 54272843**
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **Bookmarks: http://del.icio.us/Ross1956**
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **Wiki: http://ross1956.wikispaces.com/**
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>> --
>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>> Manager - Information Systems
>>>> McKinnon Secondary College
>>>> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia Direct line / Voicemail:
>>>> 8520 9085 School Phone +613 8520 9000 School Fax +613 95789253 kel AT
>>>> mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>>>
>>>> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au IT Lecture notes:
>>>> http://vceit.com
>>>> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> You'll know when we are officially a civilised race: our schools have
>>>> all the money they need and the Air Force has to run a chook raffle to
>>>>
>>>> buy a new bomber.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.edulists.com.au
>>>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
>>>> Authority and
>>>> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
>>>> VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:36:38 +1100
>>>> From: Mark Kelly <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Copyright / authorship / solutions / ??
>>>> To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
>>>> <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
>>>> Message-ID: <47CF3C96.1000409 at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>
>>>> Ah - I didn't notice you were chasing SD stuff... I assumed it was ITA.
>>>> I don't know if there are SD QATs. Your best bet is to check the
>>>> VITTA resources. There are SD SACs there.
>>>>
>>>> I will attach the U3 outcomes I used last year, which were approved by
>>>> VCAA during their audit of my material.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fatima Nazar wrote:
>>>>> Hello Mark,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have looked into QATs and even sent them an email (no reply as yet)
>>>> about SD - I am brand new to SD and would LOVE to even buy some SACs
>>>> with suggested solutions as I would then know what can be an excellent
>>>> answer :) so let me know if you have some up your sleeve please
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Fatima
>>>>> (have 2 SD classes)
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Mark Kelly
>>>>> Sent: Thu 3/6/2008 8:28 AM
>>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Copyright / authorship / solutions / ??
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Good points there, Adrian. I have a gut feeling that people feel
>>>> rather
>>>>> more intimidated writing SD outcomes than they do ITA. It's that much
>>>>> more complex.
>>>>>
>>>>> In a similar vein, I've just finished writing a commercial practice SD
>>>>> exam and it took much more thinking than the equivalent ITA exam.
>>>>>
>>>>> Adrian Janson wrote:
>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a potentially tricky issue - and as one who often posts his
>>>> SAC
>>>>>> and theory materials to the lists - one that I must confess is a bit
>>>> of
>>>>>> a concern.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Speaking personally, when I post my materials to the lists - I would
>>>>>> like to think that those who are making use of them do so in the
>>>> spirit
>>>>>> in which they have been posted - giving credit where it is due and
>>>> not
>>>>>> altering things with a view to reposting them. I think the part of
>>>> this
>>>>>> that is the most worrying is that some material did find its way back
>>>> to
>>>>>> me which I had originally authored and posted to the lists - but with
>>>>>> another teachers name on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It may well just need to be the case that when we post materials to
>>>> the
>>>>>> lists, we need to state (in the document as well as in the attached
>>>>>> email), that the materials are free to use but may not be adapted or
>>>>>> changed in any way without the permission of the author.... As I put
>>>> the
>>>>>> finishing touches on my 2008 SAC1 - I may well do this before I post
>>>> it
>>>>>> to the list? I would be interested to know what others think of
>>>> this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On another note - something which has been bothering me a great deal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After the review process took place last year and schools had the
>>>> SACs
>>>>>> and Assessments checked by VCAA - it became apparent that a large
>>>> number
>>>>>> of the sampled schools had used my SACs (more than half). Of the
>>>>>> remaining schools, many had used the VITTA SACs. After posting the
>>>> SACs
>>>>>> to the lists, I had many requests for solutions which I tried to
>>>> provide
>>>>>> as best I could. I don't mind doing this - however, I think this
>>>> seems
>>>>>> to suggest that there are few SD teachers creating their own original
>>>>>> materials and/or solutions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now - I don't mind doing the work and posting it for everyone to use.
>>>> I
>>>>>> think doing this is especially valuable to those starting out with
>>>> the
>>>>>> SD course or with programming in general. However, if you are
>>>> familiar
>>>>>> with the SD course - I think that you could be doing your own
>>>> students a
>>>>>> disservice by not writing your own materials and solutions (and hence
>>>>>> becoming more familiar with the assessment criteria and the structure
>>>> of
>>>>>> the course). In such a circumstance, I think it would be more
>>>>>> appropriate for you to use my SAC materials (or any others that are
>>>>>> posted) for practice SAC materials and / or inspiration for your own.
>>>>>> There is no way I can prevent teachers from simply using my own (or
>>>>>> others) work as a method of minimising their own workload - however,
>>>> I
>>>>>> would implore those engaging in this practice to think of the bigger
>>>>>> picture.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adrian Janson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> VITTA President
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Director of ICT, Melbourne High School
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Poultney,
>>>> Gordon A
>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 5 March 2008 12:13 PM
>>>>>> *To:* Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>>>> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are talking about a 2 page SAC here, not the latest from Neal
>>>>>> Stephenson...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Feel free to do what you want with Shagadelic - just don't put my
>>>> name
>>>>>> on it if you change it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you believe in copyright/credit , then Ross' simple attribution
>>>>>> scheme looks good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> gordon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gordon Poultney
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Horsham College
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Stephen Digby
>>>>>> *Sent:* Wed 5/3/08 11:31
>>>>>> *To:* 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
>>>>>> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What about a simpler attribution such as
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Freds Carpet House v6 "Based on SAC by Mark Kelly 2007. Alterations
>>>> by
>>>>>> Stephen Digby 2008, Gordon Poultney 2008"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just as the ridiculous copyright laws reduce the likelihood of
>>>> attribution
>>>>>> (less likely to get caught for copyright violation if you remove all
>>>> info
>>>>>> re. source).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A overly complex attribution process may reduce the likelihood of
>>>> sharing.
>>>>>> As it is, most resources that I have are not able to be shared
>>>> because of
>>>>>> copyright (i.e. they are not mine to share)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lets develop a 'creative common' approach to as much materials as
>>>>>> possible....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ====================================================
>>>>>> Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager
>>>>>> mailto: digby.stephen.p at edumail.vic.gov.au
>>>>>> Cheltenham Secondary College www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au
>>>>>> Ph: 613 955 55 955 Fx: 9555 8617 Mb: 0431-701-028
>>>>>> ====================================================
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat. Winston
>>>>>> Churchill
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
>>>>>> On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 10:15 AM
>>>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List; Year 12 IT
>>>>>> Applications Teachers' Mailing List; Year 11 Information Technology
>>>>>> Teachers' Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (I've X-posted to the ITA and year 11 IT lists. Apols in advance.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see an interesting and potentially worrying point developing here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we adapt other people's tasks, I think we are obliged to retain
>>>> the
>>>>>> version information contained in the task and note ourselves as
>>>> modifiers
>>>>>> and let that info stay with the document in its further travels.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know I would be horrified if a task I created was later 'improved'
>>>> by some
>>>>>> anonymous person, thereby damaging it or (even worse) rendering it a
>>>>>> violation of VCAA rules - with my name still proudly stuck on it as
>>>> if I
>>>>>> were solely responsible for its current condition!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When we distribute 'adapted' tasks, I recommend that we:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Of course, retain the original author's identity and document
>>>> version
>>>>>> number, if they are in the document. Give the poor authors credit
>>>> for their
>>>>>> labours!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Add yourself to the credits as a 'modifier'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. Maybe even summarise your changes (and reasons?) in an addendum at
>>>> the
>>>>>> end of the document. This addendum can be removed for printing
>>>> purposes by
>>>>>> people who use it later, but it otherwise travels with the document
>>>> as it
>>>>>> morphs through the ether.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Poultney, Gordon A wrote:
>>>>>>> i made up the original 'Shagadelic' which sounds like it has
>>>> morphed
>>>>>> into something else. There is only 1 network diagram in the original
>>>> - for
>>>>>> the new system .there is/was a marking scheme and complete network
>>>> diagram
>>>>>> for the teacher too.
>>>>>>> cheers Gordon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----------------
>>>>>>> Gordon Poultney
>>>>>>> Horsham College
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Maggie Iaquinto
>>>>>>> Sent: Wed 5/3/08 9:14
>>>>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ross
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ross
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you were using this practice SAC as the actual one, it would be
>>>>>>> difficult to separate the marks for Task 1 (systems analysis and
>>>>>>> design
>>>>>>> - mistakenly called Task 2 here) from Task 2 (network diagram). You
>>>>>>> are required to report the marks for the tasks clearly and
>>>> discretely.
>>>>>>> Task 1 is 40 marks and Task 2 is 10 marks -- based on 50 for the
>>>>>>> Outcome.
>>>>>>> In the assessment sheet nearly 25 marks of the 50 are devoted to
>>>> the
>>>>>>> network diagram. This makes it tough to report accurately to VCAA
>>>> just
>>>>>>> what your students have received, in terms of the balance of 40/10.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Task 2 (network diagram) must be for the proposed new system and
>>>> this
>>>>>>> document requires the student to diagram the current and the new.
>>>>>>> Sure, you can do that but it isn't necessary.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I notice also that there are marks given to presentation of the
>>>> report.
>>>>>>> IMHO I would put those marks into a more finely-grained assessment
>>>> of
>>>>>>> all the other Key Skills required in this Outcome.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just an opinion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maggie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 8:36 AM
>>>>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the task extended across the holidays, make sure the remaining
>>>> part
>>>>>>> is not given to them beforehand so they can't pre-produce stuff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Claudia Graham wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Ross,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Re the practice SAC not sure who's that is so can't help there
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regarding the use of the internet not something I have done or
>>>> would
>>>>>>> do,
>>>>>>>> for me it would be too hard to 'patrol'. But as long as all
>>>> students
>>>>>>>> have the same conditions it doesn't matter (mind you I don't have a
>>>>>>>> study design or assessment hand book beside me to check re
>>>>>>>> conditions)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Same for the time frame, I assume you mean a lesson or two prior to
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> holidays and then some after (or similar), not something I would do
>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>> for authentication purposes. I would do it all in a few lessons; I
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>> even like weekends between assessment lessons if I can help it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Claudia Graham
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Overnewton College
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Keilor
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>>>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Ogilvie,
>>>> Ross
>>>>>>>> A
>>>>>>>> *Sent:* 4 March 2008 7:50 PM
>>>>>>>> *To:* sofdev at edulists.com.au
>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In regard to SD I have a couple of questions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. I have given my class a **Practice SAC** called **Shagadelic
>>>>>>>> Carpets** (refer to attachment) (hope the author is OK with this).
>>>>>>>> My
>>>>>>>> question is....does anyone have the solutions so I can check if I
>>>> am
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> the right track.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. When I give my students the actual SAC:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i. Can/should they access the internet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ii. Would there be a problem (in Vic) if the SAC extended
>>>> through
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Term One holiday period into Term Two.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kindest Regards
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **Ross Ogilvie **
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **LSF ICT Leader **
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **Sunbury**** College**
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **30 Racecourse Rd****, Sunbury 3429**
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **Ph (W) 9744 1066 **
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ** (H) 54272843**
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **Bookmarks: http://del.icio.us/Ross1956**
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **Wiki: http://ross1956.wikispaces.com/**
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>>> Manager - Information Systems
>>>>> McKinnon Secondary College
>>>>> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
>>>>> Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085
>>>>> School Phone +613 8520 9000
>>>>> School Fax +613 95789253
>>>>> kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>>>>
>>>>> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>>> <http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au/>
>>>>> IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com <http://vceit.com/>
>>>>> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
>>>>>
>>>>> You'll know when we are officially a civilised race: our schools have
>>>>> all the money they need and the Air Force has to run a chook raffle to
>>>>> buy a new bomber.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au/>
>>>>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>>>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au <http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/> - Victorian
>>>> Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
>>>>> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
>>>> VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> http://www.edulists.com.au
>>>>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>>>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
>>>> Authority and
>>>>> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
>>>> VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date:
>>>> 1/03/2008 5:41 PM
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>> Manager - Information Systems
>>>> McKinnon Secondary College
>>>> kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>>> McKinnon Rd, McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
>>>> Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085 Fax +613 9578 9253
>>>>
>>>> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>>> IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
>>>> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> 1. Education is an admirable thing, but remember that nothing that is
>>>> worth knowing can be taught - Oscar Wilde
>>>> 2. I make trouble. You want some? - Mark Kelly
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sofdev mailing list
>>>> sofdev at edulists.com.au
>>>> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/sofdev
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> End of sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 17
>>>> **************************************
>>>> ******************************************************************************
>>>>
>>>> **** NOTICE FROM Gordon Institute of TAFE ****
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>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.edulists.com.au
>>>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
>>>> Authority
>>>> and
>>>> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
>>>> VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.edulists.com.au
>>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
>>> Authority and
>>> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
>>> VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Kelly
>> Manager - Information Systems
>> McKinnon Secondary College
>> kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>> McKinnon Rd, McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
>> Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085 Fax +613 9578 9253
>>
>> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>> IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
>> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
>>
>> 1. Education is an admirable thing, but remember that nothing that is
>> worth knowing can be taught - Oscar Wilde
>> 2. I make trouble. You want some? - Mark Kelly
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.edulists.com.au
>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
>> Authority and
>> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
>> VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au
> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
> Authority and
> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
> VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>
>
>
--
Mark Kelly
Manager - Information Systems
McKinnon Secondary College
McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085
School Phone +613 8520 9000
School Fax +613 95789253
kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
You'll know when we are officially a civilised race: our schools have
all the money they need and the Air Force has to run a chook raffle to
buy a new bomber.
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