[Year 12 SofDev] RE: sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 17
Kevork Krozian
kevork at edulists.com.au
Fri Mar 7 22:53:16 EST 2008
Hi Mark,
I guess my point is you have had 10 more years of experience as MIS than
many SD teachers presenting in front of classes in Victoria.
As for the programming , your initiative is what has got you where you are.
Mine was a formal Comp Sci degree circa early 80s, but all I do and use now
I have had to learn, unlearn and relearn.
All that I still use from my formal degree days is the idea of efficient
processing ( database back end for data gathering rather than intermittent
emails arriving with information that needs to be organised to make any use
of it) , knowledge of numerical computations ( how mathematical functions
are approximated in computers ), data structures ( files, arrays, records,
pointers, trees etc ) , sorting/searching algorithms and more of the same.
I had to learn about networking on the job as IT manager which began around
1992 and the rest of the Study Design through each change every 3 - 4 years.
Ultimately it is real life experience that reinforces understanding. Even
networking instructors don't fully understand the theory unless they are
working with the hardware and software. Eg. Frame Relay is a WAN topic I
teach in Cisco but don't feel great about as I have never used it nor seen
it in action. By contrast, ADSL, ISDN, VPN is technology I have and do use
and can teach with confidence.
Keep well
Kevork Krozian
Edulists Creator and Administrator
www.edulists.com.au
kevork at edulists.com.au
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Kelly" <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
<sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 17
> I've been a MIS at McKinnon since 1998.
>
> I taught myself BASIC on a 4K RAM TRS-80 in 1978 and spent too many hours
> over 20 years on various platforms including Apple ][, Vic-20, Commodore
> 64, Microbee, Amiga, PC and a Cyber mainframe playing with flavours of
> BASIC, C, Pascal, COBOL, 6502 and Z80 machine code and assembly language.
>
> I still remember 42E9 as the starting point of the BASIC interpreter in
> the TRS-80 ROM. Sigh.
>
> Kevork Krozian wrote:
>> Hi Mark,
>>
>> I know your degree is in English and Psych but for how long have you been
>> a network manager ?
>> and how /when did you learn programming ?
>>
>>
>> Kind Regards
>> Kevork Krozian
>> Edulists Creator and Administrator
>> www.edulists.com.au
>> kevork at edulists.com.au
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Kelly"
>> <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
>> To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
>> <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:14 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 17
>>
>>
>>> I have a BA in English and Psych - does that count?
>>>
>>> It would be really helpful to know what PD audiences really wanted to
>>> hear. Perhaps VITTA could pre-test people signing up for PD to find
>>> what 'favour' they want the PD to be. e.g. "Networking facts" vs "How
>>> to teach networking".
>>>
>>> I remember at the start of the 2003 study design I suggested to VITTA
>>> that teachers needed to be taught networking theory rather than how to
>>> teach networking to kids, and it was a big hit.
>>>
>>> Without the knowledge of what an audience really wants to hear, I often
>>> have to guess and try to cover 3 areas of interest in one long, fast
>>> presentation, hoping to satisfy everyone at least part of the time*.
>>>
>>> Even teacher PD is a mixed ability classroom :-)
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> * the story of my love life :-(
>>>
>>> Kevork Krozian wrote:
>>>> Hi Theresa,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your honesty in stating it is ok to admit not to know the
>>>> technical stuff and this from someone with an info systems degree. Do
>>>> all
>>>> our SD teachers have a degree in the area ?
>>>> And if you are not comfortable with the technical stuff - do I
>>>> understand
>>>> VPN, client server, WAN technologies, and more here? -- then how many
>>>> more without quals feel even less comfortable ?
>>>> I concur with your sentiments about the breaking down of the study
>>>> design
>>>> with little specificity being of little value. Yes, the VITTA CD has
>>>> gone
>>>> a long way to addressing the lack of specific sample work but there
>>>> have
>>>> been some quality assurance issues related to this.
>>>> Futhermore, there is no point in everyone doing the same VITTA sample
>>>> SAC from the CD. It is just repeating the problem using a different
>>>> source.
>>>>
>>>> Keep well
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kevork Krozian
>>>> Mailing List Administrator
>>>> kevork at edulists.com.au
>>>> www.edulists.com.au
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> In regards to the present topic, I have a degree in Information
>>>>> systems
>>>>> and am confident with teaching the theory of Systems analysis and
>>>>> design, but feel nervous with some of the technical stuff because it
>>>>> has
>>>>> changed so much in the past five years since I last taught IS so I
>>>>> signed up to the recent VITTA workshops. I was dissapointed with the
>>>>> workshops, which basically did no more than break down the Study
>>>>> design,
>>>>> something I can do myself. I feel that some more specific PD for
>>>>> networking, modelling and even programming - like building programs
>>>>> for
>>>>> portable devices would really be more helpful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Theresa Gate
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of
>>>>> sofdev-request at edulists.com.au
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 6 March 2008 11:42 AM
>>>>> To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
>>>>> Subject: sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 17
>>>>>
>>>>> Send sofdev mailing list submissions to
>>>>> sofdev at edulists.com.au
>>>>>
>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/sofdev
>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>>> sofdev-request at edulists.com.au
>>>>>
>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>>> sofdev-owner at edulists.com.au
>>>>>
>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>>> than
>>>>> "Re: Contents of sofdev digest..."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Re: Why aren't teachers able to write their own material ?
>>>>> (Kevork Krozian)
>>>>> 2. Re: Copyright / authorship / solutions / ?? (Mark Kelly)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>> Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:32:07 +1100
>>>>> From: "Kevork Krozian" <Kroset at novell1.fhc.vic.edu.au>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Why aren't teachers able to write their
>>>>> own material ?
>>>>> To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
>>>>> <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
>>>>> Message-ID: <47CFD635.EE3E.0095.0 at novell1.fhc.vic.edu.au>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Adrian and Mark,
>>>>>
>>>>> Very good points but more broadly a symptom of a wider problem we
>>>>> keep avoiding.
>>>>> If teachers are not confident about assessing a topic ( to say nothing
>>>>> about teaching it effectively ) then we need to address this issue.
>>>>> I know we are all overworked but if we are teaching a class we need to
>>>>> be fair to the students and ourselves.
>>>>>
>>>>> In reality if you are not an active network manager or Cisco
>>>>> instructor, you would struggle to understand networks and maybe not
>>>>> know
>>>>> a bus network even if you were run over by one.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know VITTA and the VCAA almost do miracles ( not least in their
>>>>> active and meaningful support of Edulists and PD ) but why are
>>>>> teachers
>>>>> unable to write their own SACs with confidence and conviction and with
>>>>> solutions they can show others ?
>>>>>
>>>>> I would say because the training and the need for new and current
>>>>> training has not kept up with the demands of the course(s). What do
>>>>> we
>>>>> do about this ?
>>>>>
>>>>> I think we need to stop patching these problems with band aids and
>>>>> need
>>>>> to go up the tree (DEECD, the new Rudd govt. initiative or wherever
>>>>> else
>>>>> we need to go) where there is decent and proper funding to deliver
>>>>> updated courses and training rather than doing it on the cheap.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't want to drag down decent hardworking teachers doing the best
>>>>> they can with what little they have - I want to lift them .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Just my thoughts
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Kevork
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mark Kelly <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au> 6/03/2008 8:28 am >>>
>>>>> Good points there, Adrian. I have a gut feeling that people feel
>>>>> rather
>>>>>
>>>>> more intimidated writing SD outcomes than they do ITA. It's that much
>>>>>
>>>>> more complex.
>>>>>
>>>>> In a similar vein, I've just finished writing a commercial practice SD
>>>>>
>>>>> exam and it took much more thinking than the equivalent ITA exam.
>>>>>
>>>>> Adrian Janson wrote:
>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a potentially tricky issue - and as one who often posts his
>>>>> SAC
>>>>>> and theory materials to the lists - one that I must confess is a bit
>>>>> of
>>>>>> a concern.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Speaking personally, when I post my materials to the lists - I would
>>>>>> like to think that those who are making use of them do so in the
>>>>> spirit
>>>>>> in which they have been posted - giving credit where it is due and
>>>>> not
>>>>>> altering things with a view to reposting them. I think the part of
>>>>> this
>>>>>> that is the most worrying is that some material did find its way back
>>>>> to
>>>>>> me which I had originally authored and posted to the lists - but with
>>>>>> another teachers name on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It may well just need to be the case that when we post materials to
>>>>> the
>>>>>> lists, we need to state (in the document as well as in the attached
>>>>>> email), that the materials are free to use but may not be adapted or
>>>>>> changed in any way without the permission of the author*. As I put
>>>>> the
>>>>>> finishing touches on my 2008 SAC1 - I may well do this before I post
>>>>> it
>>>>>> to the list? I would be interested to know what others think of
>>>>> this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On another note - something which has been bothering me a great
>>>>> deal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After the review process took place last year and schools had the
>>>>> SACs
>>>>>> and Assessments checked by VCAA - it became apparent that a large
>>>>> number
>>>>>> of the sampled schools had used my SACs (more than half). Of the
>>>>>> remaining schools, many had used the VITTA SACs. After posting the
>>>>> SACs
>>>>>> to the lists, I had many requests for solutions which I tried to
>>>>> provide
>>>>>> as best I could. I don*t mind doing this - however, I think this
>>>>> seems
>>>>>> to suggest that there are few SD teachers creating their own original
>>>>>> materials and/or solutions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now - I don*t mind doing the work and posting it for everyone to
>>>>> use. I
>>>>>> think doing this is especially valuable to those starting out with
>>>>> the
>>>>>> SD course or with programming in general. However, if you are
>>>>> familiar
>>>>>> with the SD course - I think that you could be doing your own
>>>>> students a
>>>>>> disservice by not writing your own materials and solutions (and hence
>>>>>> becoming more familiar with the assessment criteria and the structure
>>>>> of
>>>>>> the course). In such a circumstance, I think it would be more
>>>>>> appropriate for you to use my SAC materials (or any others that are
>>>>>> posted) for practice SAC materials and / or inspiration for your own.
>>>>>> There is no way I can prevent teachers from simply using my own (or
>>>>>> others) work as a method of minimising their own workload - however,
>>>>> I
>>>>>> would implore those engaging in this practice to think of the bigger
>>>>>> picture.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adrian Janson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> VITTA President
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Director of ICT, Melbourne High School
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Poultney,
>>>>> Gordon A
>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 5 March 2008 12:13 PM
>>>>>> *To:* Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>>>> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are talking about a 2 page SAC here, not the latest from Neal
>>>>>> Stephenson...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Feel free to do what you want with Shagadelic - just don't put my
>>>>> name
>>>>>> on it if you change it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you believe in copyright/credit , then Ross' simple attribution
>>>>>> scheme looks good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> gordon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gordon Poultney
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Horsham College
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Stephen Digby
>>>>>> *Sent:* Wed 5/3/08 11:31
>>>>>> *To:* 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
>>>>>> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What about a simpler attribution such as
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Freds Carpet House v6 "Based on SAC by Mark Kelly 2007. Alterations
>>>>> by
>>>>>> Stephen Digby 2008, Gordon Poultney 2008"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just as the ridiculous copyright laws reduce the likelihood of
>>>>> attribution
>>>>>> (less likely to get caught for copyright violation if you remove all
>>>>> info
>>>>>> re. source).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A overly complex attribution process may reduce the likelihood of
>>>>> sharing.
>>>>>> As it is, most resources that I have are not able to be shared
>>>>> because of
>>>>>> copyright (i.e. they are not mine to share)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lets develop a 'creative common' approach to as much materials as
>>>>>> possible....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ====================================================
>>>>>> Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager
>>>>>> mailto: digby.stephen.p at edumail.vic.gov.au
>>>>>> Cheltenham Secondary College www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au
>>>>>> Ph: 613 955 55 955 Fx: 9555 8617 Mb: 0431-701-028
>>>>>> ====================================================
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat. Winston
>>>>>> Churchill
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
>>>>>> On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 10:15 AM
>>>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List; Year 12 IT
>>>>>> Applications Teachers' Mailing List; Year 11 Information Technology
>>>>>> Teachers' Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (I've X-posted to the ITA and year 11 IT lists. Apols in advance.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see an interesting and potentially worrying point developing here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we adapt other people's tasks, I think we are obliged to retain
>>>>> the
>>>>>> version information contained in the task and note ourselves as
>>>>> modifiers
>>>>>> and let that info stay with the document in its further travels.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know I would be horrified if a task I created was later 'improved'
>>>>> by some
>>>>>> anonymous person, thereby damaging it or (even worse) rendering it a
>>>>>> violation of VCAA rules - with my name still proudly stuck on it as
>>>>> if I
>>>>>> were solely responsible for its current condition!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When we distribute 'adapted' tasks, I recommend that we:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Of course, retain the original author's identity and document
>>>>> version
>>>>>> number, if they are in the document. Give the poor authors credit
>>>>> for their
>>>>>> labours!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Add yourself to the credits as a 'modifier'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. Maybe even summarise your changes (and reasons?) in an addendum at
>>>>> the
>>>>>> end of the document. This addendum can be removed for printing
>>>>> purposes by
>>>>>> people who use it later, but it otherwise travels with the document
>>>>> as it
>>>>>> morphs through the ether.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Poultney, Gordon A wrote:
>>>>>>> i made up the original 'Shagadelic' which sounds like it has
>>>>> morphed
>>>>>> into something else. There is only 1 network diagram in the original
>>>>> - for
>>>>>> the new system .there is/was a marking scheme and complete network
>>>>> diagram
>>>>>> for the teacher too.
>>>>>>> cheers Gordon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----------------
>>>>>>> Gordon Poultney
>>>>>>> Horsham College
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Maggie Iaquinto
>>>>>>> Sent: Wed 5/3/08 9:14
>>>>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ross
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ross
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you were using this practice SAC as the actual one, it would be
>>>>>>> difficult to separate the marks for Task 1 (systems analysis and
>>>>>>> design
>>>>>>> - mistakenly called Task 2 here) from Task 2 (network diagram).
>>>>> You
>>>>>>> are required to report the marks for the tasks clearly and
>>>>> discretely.
>>>>>>> Task 1 is 40 marks and Task 2 is 10 marks -- based on 50 for the
>>>>>>> Outcome.
>>>>>>> In the assessment sheet nearly 25 marks of the 50 are devoted to
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> network diagram. This makes it tough to report accurately to VCAA
>>>>> just
>>>>>>> what your students have received, in terms of the balance of
>>>>> 40/10.
>>>>>>> Task 2 (network diagram) must be for the proposed new system and
>>>>> this
>>>>>>> document requires the student to diagram the current and the new.
>>>>>>> Sure, you can do that but it isn't necessary.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I notice also that there are marks given to presentation of the
>>>>> report.
>>>>>>> IMHO I would put those marks into a more finely-grained assessment
>>>>> of
>>>>>>> all the other Key Skills required in this Outcome.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just an opinion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maggie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 8:36 AM
>>>>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the task extended across the holidays, make sure the remaining
>>>>> part
>>>>>>> is not given to them beforehand so they can't pre-produce stuff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Claudia Graham wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Ross,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Re the practice SAC not sure who's that is so can't help there
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regarding the use of the internet not something I have done or
>>>>> would
>>>>>>> do,
>>>>>>>> for me it would be too hard to 'patrol'. But as long as all
>>>>> students
>>>>>>>> have the same conditions it doesn't matter (mind you I don't have
>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> study design or assessment hand book beside me to check re
>>>>>>>> conditions)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Same for the time frame, I assume you mean a lesson or two prior
>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> holidays and then some after (or similar), not something I would
>>>>> do
>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>> for authentication purposes. I would do it all in a few lessons;
>>>>> I
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>> even like weekends between assessment lessons if I can help it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Claudia Graham
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Overnewton College
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Keilor
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>>>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Ogilvie,
>>>>> Ross
>>>>>>>> A
>>>>>>>> *Sent:* 4 March 2008 7:50 PM
>>>>>>>> *To:* sofdev at edulists.com.au
>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In regard to SD I have a couple of questions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. I have given my class a **Practice SAC** called **Shagadelic
>>>>>>>> Carpets** (refer to attachment) (hope the author is OK with
>>>>> this).
>>>>>>>> My
>>>>>>>> question is....does anyone have the solutions so I can check if I
>>>>> am
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> the right track.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. When I give my students the actual SAC:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i. Can/should they access the internet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ii. Would there be a problem (in Vic) if the SAC extended
>>>>> through
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Term One holiday period into Term Two.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kindest Regards
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **Ross Ogilvie **
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **LSF ICT Leader **
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **Sunbury**** College**
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **30 Racecourse Rd****, Sunbury 3429**
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **Ph (W) 9744 1066 **
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ** (H) 54272843**
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **Bookmarks: http://del.icio.us/Ross1956**
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **Wiki: http://ross1956.wikispaces.com/**
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>>> Manager - Information Systems
>>>>> McKinnon Secondary College
>>>>> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia Direct line /
>>>>> Voicemail:
>>>>> 8520 9085 School Phone +613 8520 9000 School Fax +613 95789253 kel AT
>>>>> mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>>>>
>>>>> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au IT Lecture notes:
>>>>> http://vceit.com
>>>>> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
>>>>>
>>>>> You'll know when we are officially a civilised race: our schools have
>>>>> all the money they need and the Air Force has to run a chook raffle to
>>>>>
>>>>> buy a new bomber.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> http://www.edulists.com.au
>>>>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>>>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
>>>>> Authority and
>>>>> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
>>>>> VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 2
>>>>> Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:36:38 +1100
>>>>> From: Mark Kelly <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Copyright / authorship / solutions / ??
>>>>> To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
>>>>> <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
>>>>> Message-ID: <47CF3C96.1000409 at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah - I didn't notice you were chasing SD stuff... I assumed it was
>>>>> ITA.
>>>>> I don't know if there are SD QATs. Your best bet is to check the
>>>>> VITTA resources. There are SD SACs there.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will attach the U3 outcomes I used last year, which were approved by
>>>>> VCAA during their audit of my material.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Fatima Nazar wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Mark,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have looked into QATs and even sent them an email (no reply as yet)
>>>>> about SD - I am brand new to SD and would LOVE to even buy some SACs
>>>>> with suggested solutions as I would then know what can be an excellent
>>>>> answer :) so let me know if you have some up your sleeve please
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Fatima
>>>>>> (have 2 SD classes)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Mark Kelly
>>>>>> Sent: Thu 3/6/2008 8:28 AM
>>>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Copyright / authorship / solutions / ??
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good points there, Adrian. I have a gut feeling that people feel
>>>>> rather
>>>>>> more intimidated writing SD outcomes than they do ITA. It's that
>>>>>> much
>>>>>> more complex.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In a similar vein, I've just finished writing a commercial practice
>>>>>> SD
>>>>>> exam and it took much more thinking than the equivalent ITA exam.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adrian Janson wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is a potentially tricky issue - and as one who often posts his
>>>>> SAC
>>>>>>> and theory materials to the lists - one that I must confess is a bit
>>>>> of
>>>>>>> a concern.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Speaking personally, when I post my materials to the lists - I would
>>>>>>> like to think that those who are making use of them do so in the
>>>>> spirit
>>>>>>> in which they have been posted - giving credit where it is due and
>>>>> not
>>>>>>> altering things with a view to reposting them. I think the part of
>>>>> this
>>>>>>> that is the most worrying is that some material did find its way
>>>>>>> back
>>>>> to
>>>>>>> me which I had originally authored and posted to the lists - but
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> another teachers name on it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It may well just need to be the case that when we post materials to
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> lists, we need to state (in the document as well as in the attached
>>>>>>> email), that the materials are free to use but may not be adapted or
>>>>>>> changed in any way without the permission of the author.... As I
>>>>>>> put
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> finishing touches on my 2008 SAC1 - I may well do this before I post
>>>>> it
>>>>>>> to the list? I would be interested to know what others think of
>>>>> this?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On another note - something which has been bothering me a great
>>>>>>> deal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After the review process took place last year and schools had the
>>>>> SACs
>>>>>>> and Assessments checked by VCAA - it became apparent that a large
>>>>> number
>>>>>>> of the sampled schools had used my SACs (more than half). Of the
>>>>>>> remaining schools, many had used the VITTA SACs. After posting the
>>>>> SACs
>>>>>>> to the lists, I had many requests for solutions which I tried to
>>>>> provide
>>>>>>> as best I could. I don't mind doing this - however, I think this
>>>>> seems
>>>>>>> to suggest that there are few SD teachers creating their own
>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>> materials and/or solutions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now - I don't mind doing the work and posting it for everyone to
>>>>>>> use.
>>>>> I
>>>>>>> think doing this is especially valuable to those starting out with
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> SD course or with programming in general. However, if you are
>>>>> familiar
>>>>>>> with the SD course - I think that you could be doing your own
>>>>> students a
>>>>>>> disservice by not writing your own materials and solutions (and
>>>>>>> hence
>>>>>>> becoming more familiar with the assessment criteria and the
>>>>>>> structure
>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the course). In such a circumstance, I think it would be more
>>>>>>> appropriate for you to use my SAC materials (or any others that are
>>>>>>> posted) for practice SAC materials and / or inspiration for your
>>>>>>> own.
>>>>>>> There is no way I can prevent teachers from simply using my own (or
>>>>>>> others) work as a method of minimising their own workload - however,
>>>>> I
>>>>>>> would implore those engaging in this practice to think of the bigger
>>>>>>> picture.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Adrian Janson
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> VITTA President
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Director of ICT, Melbourne High School
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Poultney,
>>>>> Gordon A
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 5 March 2008 12:13 PM
>>>>>>> *To:* Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>>>>> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are talking about a 2 page SAC here, not the latest from Neal
>>>>>>> Stephenson...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Feel free to do what you want with Shagadelic - just don't put my
>>>>> name
>>>>>>> on it if you change it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you believe in copyright/credit , then Ross' simple attribution
>>>>>>> scheme looks good.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> gordon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gordon Poultney
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Horsham College
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Stephen Digby
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wed 5/3/08 11:31
>>>>>>> *To:* 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
>>>>>>> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What about a simpler attribution such as
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Freds Carpet House v6 "Based on SAC by Mark Kelly 2007. Alterations
>>>>> by
>>>>>>> Stephen Digby 2008, Gordon Poultney 2008"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just as the ridiculous copyright laws reduce the likelihood of
>>>>> attribution
>>>>>>> (less likely to get caught for copyright violation if you remove all
>>>>> info
>>>>>>> re. source).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A overly complex attribution process may reduce the likelihood of
>>>>> sharing.
>>>>>>> As it is, most resources that I have are not able to be shared
>>>>> because of
>>>>>>> copyright (i.e. they are not mine to share)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lets develop a 'creative common' approach to as much materials as
>>>>>>> possible....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ====================================================
>>>>>>> Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager
>>>>>>> mailto: digby.stephen.p at edumail.vic.gov.au
>>>>>>> Cheltenham Secondary College www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au
>>>>>>> Ph: 613 955 55 955 Fx: 9555 8617 Mb: 0431-701-028
>>>>>>> ====================================================
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat. Winston
>>>>>>> Churchill
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 10:15 AM
>>>>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List; Year 12 IT
>>>>>>> Applications Teachers' Mailing List; Year 11 Information Technology
>>>>>>> Teachers' Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (I've X-posted to the ITA and year 11 IT lists. Apols in advance.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I see an interesting and potentially worrying point developing here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If we adapt other people's tasks, I think we are obliged to retain
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> version information contained in the task and note ourselves as
>>>>> modifiers
>>>>>>> and let that info stay with the document in its further travels.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know I would be horrified if a task I created was later 'improved'
>>>>> by some
>>>>>>> anonymous person, thereby damaging it or (even worse) rendering it a
>>>>>>> violation of VCAA rules - with my name still proudly stuck on it as
>>>>> if I
>>>>>>> were solely responsible for its current condition!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When we distribute 'adapted' tasks, I recommend that we:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Of course, retain the original author's identity and document
>>>>> version
>>>>>>> number, if they are in the document. Give the poor authors credit
>>>>> for their
>>>>>>> labours!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. Add yourself to the credits as a 'modifier'.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3. Maybe even summarise your changes (and reasons?) in an addendum
>>>>>>> at
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> end of the document. This addendum can be removed for printing
>>>>> purposes by
>>>>>>> people who use it later, but it otherwise travels with the document
>>>>> as it
>>>>>>> morphs through the ether.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Poultney, Gordon A wrote:
>>>>>>>> i made up the original 'Shagadelic' which sounds like it has
>>>>> morphed
>>>>>>> into something else. There is only 1 network diagram in the original
>>>>> - for
>>>>>>> the new system .there is/was a marking scheme and complete network
>>>>> diagram
>>>>>>> for the teacher too.
>>>>>>>> cheers Gordon
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----------------
>>>>>>>> Gordon Poultney
>>>>>>>> Horsham College
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Maggie Iaquinto
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wed 5/3/08 9:14
>>>>>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ross
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ross
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you were using this practice SAC as the actual one, it would be
>>>>>>>> difficult to separate the marks for Task 1 (systems analysis and
>>>>>>>> design
>>>>>>>> - mistakenly called Task 2 here) from Task 2 (network diagram).
>>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>>> are required to report the marks for the tasks clearly and
>>>>> discretely.
>>>>>>>> Task 1 is 40 marks and Task 2 is 10 marks -- based on 50 for the
>>>>>>>> Outcome.
>>>>>>>> In the assessment sheet nearly 25 marks of the 50 are devoted to
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> network diagram. This makes it tough to report accurately to VCAA
>>>>> just
>>>>>>>> what your students have received, in terms of the balance of
>>>>>>>> 40/10.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Task 2 (network diagram) must be for the proposed new system and
>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> document requires the student to diagram the current and the new.
>>>>>>>> Sure, you can do that but it isn't necessary.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I notice also that there are marks given to presentation of the
>>>>> report.
>>>>>>>> IMHO I would put those marks into a more finely-grained assessment
>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> all the other Key Skills required in this Outcome.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just an opinion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maggie
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>>>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 8:36 AM
>>>>>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If the task extended across the holidays, make sure the remaining
>>>>> part
>>>>>>>> is not given to them beforehand so they can't pre-produce stuff.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Claudia Graham wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Ross,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Re the practice SAC not sure who's that is so can't help there
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regarding the use of the internet not something I have done or
>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> do,
>>>>>>>>> for me it would be too hard to 'patrol'. But as long as all
>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>> have the same conditions it doesn't matter (mind you I don't have
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> study design or assessment hand book beside me to check re
>>>>>>>>> conditions)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Same for the time frame, I assume you mean a lesson or two prior
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> holidays and then some after (or similar), not something I would
>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>> for authentication purposes. I would do it all in a few lessons; I
>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>> even like weekends between assessment lessons if I can help it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Claudia Graham
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Overnewton College
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Keilor
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Ogilvie,
>>>>> Ross
>>>>>>>>> A
>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* 4 March 2008 7:50 PM
>>>>>>>>> *To:* sofdev at edulists.com.au
>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In regard to SD I have a couple of questions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. I have given my class a **Practice SAC** called **Shagadelic
>>>>>>>>> Carpets** (refer to attachment) (hope the author is OK with
>>>>>>>>> this).
>>>>>>>>> My
>>>>>>>>> question is....does anyone have the solutions so I can check if I
>>>>> am
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> the right track.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2. When I give my students the actual SAC:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> i. Can/should they access the internet.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ii. Would there be a problem (in Vic) if the SAC extended
>>>>> through
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> Term One holiday period into Term Two.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Kindest Regards
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> **Ross Ogilvie **
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> **LSF ICT Leader **
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> **Sunbury**** College**
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> **30 Racecourse Rd****, Sunbury 3429**
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> **Ph (W) 9744 1066 **
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ** (H) 54272843**
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> **Bookmarks: http://del.icio.us/Ross1956**
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> **Wiki: http://ross1956.wikispaces.com/**
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>>>> Manager - Information Systems
>>>>>> McKinnon Secondary College
>>>>>> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
>>>>>> Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085
>>>>>> School Phone +613 8520 9000
>>>>>> School Fax +613 95789253
>>>>>> kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>>>> <http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au/>
>>>>>> IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com <http://vceit.com/>
>>>>>> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You'll know when we are officially a civilised race: our schools have
>>>>>> all the money they need and the Air Force has to run a chook raffle
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> buy a new bomber.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au/>
>>>>>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>>>>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au <http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/> - Victorian
>>>>> Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
>>>>>> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
>>>>> VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> http://www.edulists.com.au
>>>>>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>>>>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
>>>>> Authority and
>>>>>> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
>>>>> VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date:
>>>>> 1/03/2008 5:41 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>>> Manager - Information Systems
>>>>> McKinnon Secondary College
>>>>> kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>>>> McKinnon Rd, McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
>>>>> Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085 Fax +613 9578 9253
>>>>>
>>>>> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>>>> IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
>>>>> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Education is an admirable thing, but remember that nothing that is
>>>>> worth knowing can be taught - Oscar Wilde
>>>>> 2. I make trouble. You want some? - Mark Kelly
>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>> Name: SD-U3O1_2007-Janson?s EZ-X10-Shuns-4U-v4small.zip
>>>>> Type: application/octet-stream
>>>>> Size: 93117 bytes
>>>>> Desc: not available
>>>>> Url :
>>>>> http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/sofdev/attachments/20080306/39b234f
>>>>> b/SD-U3O1_2007-JansonsEZ-X10-Shuns-4U-v4small.obj
>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>> Name: SD U3O2 2007 task pic1.jpg
>>>>> Type: image/jpeg
>>>>> Size: 46037 bytes
>>>>> Desc: not available
>>>>> Url :
>>>>> http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/sofdev/attachments/20080306/39b234f
>>>>> b/SDU3O22007taskpic1.jpg
>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>> Name: SD U3O2 2007 task pic2.jpg
>>>>> Type: image/jpeg
>>>>> Size: 29249 bytes
>>>>> Desc: not available
>>>>> Url :
>>>>> http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/sofdev/attachments/20080306/39b234f
>>>>> b/SDU3O22007taskpic2.jpg
>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>> Name: SD U3O2 2007-vangogo-v5.doc
>>>>> Type: application/msword
>>>>> Size: 45568 bytes
>>>>> Desc: not available
>>>>> Url :
>>>>> http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/sofdev/attachments/20080306/39b234f
>>>>> b/SDU3O22007-vangogo-v5.doc
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> sofdev mailing list
>>>>> sofdev at edulists.com.au
>>>>> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/sofdev
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> End of sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 17
>>>>> **************************************
>>>>> ******************************************************************************
>>>>> **** NOTICE FROM Gordon Institute of TAFE ****
>>>>> This message is confidential, and may contain proprietary or legally
>>>>> privileged information. If you have received this email in error,
>>>>> please
>>>>> notify the sender and delete it immediately. Please take appropriate
>>>>> precautions when communicating across the internet. The Gordon
>>>>> Institute
>>>>> of TAFE under no circumstances accepts liability for any loss or
>>>>> damage
>>>>> which may result from your receipt of this message or any attachments.
>>>>> ******************************************************************************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> http://www.edulists.com.au
>>>>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>>>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
>>>>> Authority
>>>>> and
>>>>> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
>>>>> VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.edulists.com.au
>>>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
>>>> Authority and
>>>> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
>>>> VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mark Kelly
>>> Manager - Information Systems
>>> McKinnon Secondary College
>>> kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>> McKinnon Rd, McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
>>> Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085 Fax +613 9578 9253
>>>
>>> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>> IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
>>> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
>>>
>>> 1. Education is an admirable thing, but remember that nothing that is
>>> worth knowing can be taught - Oscar Wilde
>>> 2. I make trouble. You want some? - Mark Kelly
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.edulists.com.au
>>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
>>> Authority and
>>> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
>>> VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.edulists.com.au
>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
>> Authority and
>> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
>> VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Mark Kelly
> Manager - Information Systems
> McKinnon Secondary College
> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
> Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085
> School Phone +613 8520 9000
> School Fax +613 95789253
> kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>
> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
> IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
>
> You'll know when we are officially a civilised race: our schools have all
> the money they need and the Air Force has to run a chook raffle to buy a
> new bomber.
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au
> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> and
> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
> VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>
More information about the sofdev
mailing list