[Year 12 IT Apps] U302

Wed May 5 15:32:47 EST 2010

So happy to see David invoking the KISS principle. Very important.

Robert Hind (Semi-retired)
Ashwood and Traralgon
robert at yinnar.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George Ciotti" <ciotti.george.w at edumail.vic.gov.au>
To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List" 
<itapps at edulists.com.au>; "David Dawson" <David.Dawson at wesleycollege.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302

> As a first year teacher of ITA I would have to agree with these 
> sentiments.
> A prototype is a prototype I would have thought.
> The thing that gets me is that there is so much disagreement as to the
> requirements of SACS. If we take U3O2 as an example why would anyone go 
> into
> a fully, or even partially for that matter, fledged back end to achieve 
> the
> requirements? U3O2 as it reads is more about photoshop skills in mimicking 
> a
> real life situation. If students can demonstrate how the different parts
> make sense then this is what is required. They do not need to demonstrate
> "skills" in web development to the extent that they can achieve this
> environment. Firstly, because it's impossible within the timeline 
> provided,
> not to mention the variety of skills and resources needed given these 
> things
> are normally developed in a team in any case, and secondly it is not asked
> for.
>
>
>
>
> On 5/5/10 1:29 PM, "David Dawson" <David.Dawson at wesleycollege.net> wrote:
>
>> In my opinion we either use a design tool and produce a prototype with,
>> say Dreamweaver - as required - or we go the whole hog and teach
>> programming a backend database like we do in the Software Devt course.
>> (PHP with My SQL)
>> I know what I like doing in IT Apps and it relates to the KISS
>> principle.
>> All the rest is academic.
>> The irony is that some of this cool stuff can be done at yr 10 but it
>> is just a waste of time for the yr 12s who really just want a good
>> score.
>>
>>
>> David Dawson
>> Head of Information Technology Learning Area
>> Head of Learning Technologies
>> St Kilda Rd Campus
>> Wesley College
>> 577 St Kilda Rd
>> Melbourne 3004
>> Ph 8102 6340
>> Mob 0425 718147
>>
>>
>>>>> itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au 05/05/10 12:50 pm >>>
>> OK well enough said on this topic. I cant make sense of some of these
>> replies and it is just turning into an argument.
>>
>> A.Townsley
>> townsley.andrew.a at edumail.vic.gov.au
>> Fountain Gate SC
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Cameron Bell
>> Sent: Wed 5/05/2010 8:32 AM
>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302
>>
>> Andrew, you can't go saying things like that. It blows our whole
>> "industry standard" argument out of the water! How can my Yr 7's expect
>> to get a job in 15 years time without access to the latest you-beaut ,
>> enterprise-grade, encryption enabled, cloud-ready  package if I can't
>> play with it myself and then teach them?
>> I can't believe this heresy!
>> Next you'll be telling me that we could teach ICT with FLOSS only!
>> Cheers
>> Cameron
>>
>> :P   ;)
>>
>> On 04/05/2010, at 1:42 PM, Townsley, Andrew A wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> My issue was we shouldnt be teaching how to use an application
>> package but teach skills instead. Skills can be transferred across
>> packages and this make more educational sense.
>>>
>>
>>> A.Townsley
>>>
>>> townsley.andrew.a at edumail.vic.gov.au
>>> Fountain Gate SC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Bane, Janet A
>>> Sent: Sat 1/05/2010 4:05 PM
>>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> When I said "I hope this will be a useful resource for others, and if
>> you have comments/suggestions/tips about Expression Web that you want to
>> share I, for one, would be most grateful" - this wasn't quite what I
>> meant!  I think you are all missing the point here.
>>>
>>>
>>> The point is that there are many different packages out there which
>> people use to do Outcome 2.  The web authoring/virtual team SAC
>> continues in the next study design as well.  I don't want to debate the
>> merits of each type of software. (my software is better than your
>> software....no it isn't.....yes it is..... - its all pretty childish if
>> you ask me!).  In most schools you "get what you're given", and in my
>> case, Expression Web is what I was given to work with.
>>>
>>>
>>> All I was trying to do was to provide a resource for others who may
>> also be using Expression Web  and would like some guidance  (as there is
>> nothing out there).  Just do a search through the vitta resources with
>> the word "expression web" and see how many you get.    As far as EW
>> itself is concerned, I have only scratched the surface, but can see
>> there are a lot of innovations and improvements over Front Page.  It is
>> quite suitable for high school student level and as Mark K has stated,
>> the aim of the SAC is not to turn out ready-made web designers, but
>> students who have a good working knowledge of how a virtual team works.
>> They don't need to get too technical.
>>>
>>>
>>> Finally, you may be surprised to  know that  many schools are using
>> Expression Web, Dreamweaver or even the old Front Page.   If you are in
>> a Govt School, it is likely that you are using MS products (FP or EW)
>> and therefore resources such as mine are probably of interest. For those
>> that aren't,  perhaps you would like to upload some of the ones you have
>> developed, Andrew, so we can share some of your expertise as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>   regards
>>>
>>> Janet Bane
>>> Patterson River SC
>>>
>>>   _____
>>>
>>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Townsley, Andrew A
>>> Sent: Fri 30-Apr-10 5:34 PM
>>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302
>>>
>>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I really wouldnt bother with expression web or dreamweaver  IMHO.
>>>  IT isnt a professional product like VWD which you can easily add
>> interactive content and it is free.
>>> This will teach actually skills that some students can extend their
>> learning on.
>>>
>>> Next best would be PHP. YOu dont need to code interactive stuff but
>> this will cater for all learners.
>>>
>>> A.Townsley
>>> townsley.andrew.a at edumail.vic.gov.au
>>> Fountain Gate SC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Bane, Janet A
>>> Sent: Fri 30/04/2010 4:24 PM
>>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302
>>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> I have been dragged (kicking and screaming), into the wonderful world
>> of Expression Web.  Our technicians took away Front Page when we
>> upgraded to Windows 7.
>>>
>>>
>>> The first thing I found out was that there are very few good
>> resources out there, and even fewer people who could actually show/tell
>> me what to do.  Lots of stuff had changed (or maybe it hadn't, I just
>> couldn't find it).  SO ....   after lots of tense moments, I have come
>> up with a set of notes, written for Expression Web users, based on the
>> notes I did earlier for Front Page.  It follows the development of the
>> website for Fast Feet, which I'm sure most people are familiar with, if
>> they have the VITTA CD for the current study design.
>>>
>>>
>>> It is now available on the VITTA site, under the title: Fast feet
>> with Expression web.
>>>
>>> It goes through the steps involved in creating and developing the
>> website for Fast Feet.  It contains Home, Management, Production,
>> Customer and Bulletin Board pages and a Staff login page as well as some
>> theory questions along the way.  The customer page is optional as the
>> website is for the virtual team, however I include it to show students
>> how to use form elements.
>>>
>>>
>>> I hope this will be a useful resource for others, and if you have
>> comments/suggestions/tips about Expression Web that you want to share I,
>> for one, would be most grateful.
>>>
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>>
>>> Janet Bane
>>> Patterson River SC
>>>
>>>   _____
>>>
>>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Mark KELLY
>>> Sent: Thu 29-Apr-10 8:25 AM
>>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 12:36 PM, Townsley, Andrew A
>> <townsley.andrew.a at edumail.vic.gov.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Reading the Study Design for unit 302 I am seeing that students need
>> to create a website with 'non-functional' interactive content for a
>> virtual team. Also they need to evaluate it.
>>>
>>> 1)If my students know how to make websites already then what new
>> skills do I need to teach them for this?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The webmaking skills are pretty modest, so not a lot of training may
>> be required.  That's why I do U3O2 as the first outcome.  What the kids
>> do need to know is the needs of a virtual team and how they can be
>> satisfied with a website.  That's really what is being assessed (as well
>> as the basic networking knowledge required.)
>>>
>>> Their site has to demonstrate an ability to help a vt share
>> information and make decisions, and the kids have to demonstrate
>> appropriate tools to achieve those ends (e.g. chat, wiki, forum, shared
>> calendar, security [e.g. a simulated login page to their site], file
>> exchange, team contacts etc).
>>>
>>> Since most of these tools will have to be simulated because of the
>> restrictions in a classroom environment, their image editing skills will
>> need to be developed so they can doctor screenshots of such tools in
>> action.
>>>
>>> I can add interactive content with VS2008 VWD ( I hope people are
>> using this or PHP and not dreamweaver/frontpage).
>>>  The example SAC's I saw didn't really expand on basic web site
>> building skills.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Don't get distracted by spending huge efforts trying to make
>> functional sites: that is not really the point of the outcome.  It's
>> about the needs of virtual teams.  Software Development is the arena for
>> cracking open VS2008...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A.Townsley
>>> townsley.andrew.a at edumail.vic.gov.au
>>> Fountain Gate SC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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