[Year 12 IT Apps] U302

Wed May 5 14:54:18 EST 2010

As a first year teacher of ITA I would have to agree with these sentiments.
A prototype is a prototype I would have thought.
The thing that gets me is that there is so much disagreement as to the
requirements of SACS. If we take U3O2 as an example why would anyone go into
a fully, or even partially for that matter, fledged back end to achieve the
requirements? U3O2 as it reads is more about photoshop skills in mimicking a
real life situation. If students can demonstrate how the different parts
make sense then this is what is required. They do not need to demonstrate
"skills" in web development to the extent that they can achieve this
environment. Firstly, because it's impossible within the timeline provided,
not to mention the variety of skills and resources needed given these things
are normally developed in a team in any case, and secondly it is not asked
for.

On 5/5/10 1:29 PM, "David Dawson" <David.Dawson at wesleycollege.net> wrote:

> In my opinion we either use a design tool and produce a prototype with,
> say Dreamweaver - as required - or we go the whole hog and teach
> programming a backend database like we do in the Software Devt course.
> (PHP with My SQL)
> I know what I like doing in IT Apps and it relates to the KISS
> principle.
> All the rest is academic.
> The irony is that some of this cool stuff can be done at yr 10 but it
> is just a waste of time for the yr 12s who really just want a good
> score.
> 
> 
> David Dawson
> Head of Information Technology Learning Area
> Head of Learning Technologies
> St Kilda Rd Campus
> Wesley College 
> 577 St Kilda Rd
> Melbourne 3004
> Ph 8102 6340
> Mob 0425 718147
> 
> 
>>>> itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au 05/05/10 12:50 pm >>>
> OK well enough said on this topic. I cant make sense of some of these
> replies and it is just turning into an argument.
> 
> A.Townsley
> townsley.andrew.a at edumail.vic.gov.au
> Fountain Gate SC
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Cameron Bell
> Sent: Wed 5/05/2010 8:32 AM
> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302
> 
> Andrew, you can't go saying things like that. It blows our whole
> "industry standard" argument out of the water! How can my Yr 7's expect
> to get a job in 15 years time without access to the latest you-beaut ,
> enterprise-grade, encryption enabled, cloud-ready  package if I can't
> play with it myself and then teach them?
> I can't believe this heresy!
> Next you'll be telling me that we could teach ICT with FLOSS only!
> Cheers
> Cameron
> 
> :P   ;)
> 
> On 04/05/2010, at 1:42 PM, Townsley, Andrew A wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> My issue was we shouldnt be teaching how to use an application
> package but teach skills instead. Skills can be transferred across
> packages and this make more educational sense.
>> 
> 
>> A.Townsley
>> 
>> townsley.andrew.a at edumail.vic.gov.au
>> Fountain Gate SC
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Bane, Janet A
>> Sent: Sat 1/05/2010 4:05 PM
>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> When I said "I hope this will be a useful resource for others, and if
> you have comments/suggestions/tips about Expression Web that you want to
> share I, for one, would be most grateful" - this wasn't quite what I
> meant!  I think you are all missing the point here.
>> 
>> 
>> The point is that there are many different packages out there which
> people use to do Outcome 2.  The web authoring/virtual team SAC
> continues in the next study design as well.  I don't want to debate the
> merits of each type of software. (my software is better than your
> software....no it isn't.....yes it is..... - its all pretty childish if
> you ask me!).  In most schools you "get what you're given", and in my
> case, Expression Web is what I was given to work with.
>> 
>> 
>> All I was trying to do was to provide a resource for others who may
> also be using Expression Web  and would like some guidance  (as there is
> nothing out there).  Just do a search through the vitta resources with
> the word "expression web" and see how many you get.    As far as EW
> itself is concerned, I have only scratched the surface, but can see
> there are a lot of innovations and improvements over Front Page.  It is
> quite suitable for high school student level and as Mark K has stated,
> the aim of the SAC is not to turn out ready-made web designers, but
> students who have a good working knowledge of how a virtual team works.
> They don't need to get too technical.
>> 
>> 
>> Finally, you may be surprised to  know that  many schools are using
> Expression Web, Dreamweaver or even the old Front Page.   If you are in
> a Govt School, it is likely that you are using MS products (FP or EW)
> and therefore resources such as mine are probably of interest. For those
> that aren't,  perhaps you would like to upload some of the ones you have
> developed, Andrew, so we can share some of your expertise as well.
>> 
>> 
>>   regards
>> 
>> Janet Bane
>> Patterson River SC
>> 
>>   _____
>> 
>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Townsley, Andrew A
>> Sent: Fri 30-Apr-10 5:34 PM
>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302
>> 
>>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I really wouldnt bother with expression web or dreamweaver  IMHO.
>>  IT isnt a professional product like VWD which you can easily add
> interactive content and it is free.
>> This will teach actually skills that some students can extend their
> learning on.
>> 
>> Next best would be PHP. YOu dont need to code interactive stuff but
> this will cater for all learners.
>> 
>> A.Townsley
>> townsley.andrew.a at edumail.vic.gov.au
>> Fountain Gate SC
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Bane, Janet A
>> Sent: Fri 30/04/2010 4:24 PM
>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302
>> 
>> Hi all
>> 
>> I have been dragged (kicking and screaming), into the wonderful world
> of Expression Web.  Our technicians took away Front Page when we
> upgraded to Windows 7.
>> 
>> 
>> The first thing I found out was that there are very few good
> resources out there, and even fewer people who could actually show/tell
> me what to do.  Lots of stuff had changed (or maybe it hadn't, I just
> couldn't find it).  SO ....   after lots of tense moments, I have come
> up with a set of notes, written for Expression Web users, based on the
> notes I did earlier for Front Page.  It follows the development of the
> website for Fast Feet, which I'm sure most people are familiar with, if
> they have the VITTA CD for the current study design.
>> 
>> 
>> It is now available on the VITTA site, under the title: Fast feet
> with Expression web.
>> 
>> It goes through the steps involved in creating and developing the
> website for Fast Feet.  It contains Home, Management, Production,
> Customer and Bulletin Board pages and a Staff login page as well as some
> theory questions along the way.  The customer page is optional as the
> website is for the virtual team, however I include it to show students
> how to use form elements.
>> 
>> 
>> I hope this will be a useful resource for others, and if you have
> comments/suggestions/tips about Expression Web that you want to share I,
> for one, would be most grateful.
>> 
>> 
>> regards
>> 
>> 
>> Janet Bane
>> Patterson River SC
>> 
>>   _____
>> 
>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Mark KELLY
>> Sent: Thu 29-Apr-10 8:25 AM
>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 12:36 PM, Townsley, Andrew A
> <townsley.andrew.a at edumail.vic.gov.au> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Reading the Study Design for unit 302 I am seeing that students need
> to create a website with 'non-functional' interactive content for a
> virtual team. Also they need to evaluate it.
>> 
>> 1)If my students know how to make websites already then what new
> skills do I need to teach them for this?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The webmaking skills are pretty modest, so not a lot of training may
> be required.  That's why I do U3O2 as the first outcome.  What the kids
> do need to know is the needs of a virtual team and how they can be
> satisfied with a website.  That's really what is being assessed (as well
> as the basic networking knowledge required.)
>> 
>> Their site has to demonstrate an ability to help a vt share
> information and make decisions, and the kids have to demonstrate
> appropriate tools to achieve those ends (e.g. chat, wiki, forum, shared
> calendar, security [e.g. a simulated login page to their site], file
> exchange, team contacts etc).
>> 
>> Since most of these tools will have to be simulated because of the
> restrictions in a classroom environment, their image editing skills will
> need to be developed so they can doctor screenshots of such tools in
> action.
>> 
>> I can add interactive content with VS2008 VWD ( I hope people are
> using this or PHP and not dreamweaver/frontpage).
>>  The example SAC's I saw didn't really expand on basic web site
> building skills.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Don't get distracted by spending huge efforts trying to make
> functional sites: that is not really the point of the outcome.  It's
> about the needs of virtual teams.  Software Development is the arena for
> cracking open VS2008...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> A.Townsley
>> townsley.andrew.a at edumail.vic.gov.au
>> Fountain Gate SC
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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