[Year 12 IT Apps] RE: U302 (Adrian Janson)

Wed May 5 14:43:05 EST 2010

I'd like to add to that by saying we should teach using what
language/software we are most fluent/comfortable with. Students will get
more value and better quality teaching from a teacher who knows how an
"inferior" software/language works, rather than one who doesn't know how an
"industry standard" software/language that well but does it because it's
"industry standard".

Also, as someone who did work in the web development industry for several
years, you learn most of the software the company has on the job. For
example, Apple WebObjects (based on Java), which at the time wasn't an
industry standard, but I learned to use to help develop the StudyWiz LMS).
Learning Turbo Pascal at Melbourne high school (sorry Adrian, I had a
different teacher) was useful as it taught me the basics of programming and
structure that helped me learn Java/WebObjects; the language and software
was merely a means to understand those basics.

James Lee 

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Today's Topics:

   1. RE: U302 (Adrian Janson)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 13:39:45 +1000
From: "Adrian Janson" <janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au>
Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302
To: "'Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List'"
	<itapps at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID:
	<001401caec04$9ae0f9a0$d0a2ece0$@adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi everyone,

So here now is my 2c!

Everyone has their own preferred packages.  There are similar discussions to
this one on the SD lists from time to time - and the reality is - there is
no right answer.  I personally use VB.Net and C# - but I have nothing
negative to say about any of the other programming languages that are
approved for study.  I do however, get my back up when others say that I
shouldn't be teaching VB.Net or C# for this reason or that.  For this
reason, this sort of comment is not constructive at all.  It's certainly
fine in my view to debate the pros and cons of different packages - but we
each make a professional judgement to use software packages and this should
be respected.

Ultimately it is my view that it doesn't really matter what SOFTWARE we
teach - it is the skills and techniques that provide our students with the
ability to adapt to the packages that they will be using in 5, 10, 15+
years.    

Cheers,

Adrian

Adrian Janson B.Sc, Dip.Ed, M.Ed
VITTA President

Director of ICT
Melbourne High School, Forrest Hill, South Yarra, Victoria 3141 Australia.
Phone: 03 9826 0711 International: +61 3 9826 0711
Fax: 03 9826 8767 International: +61 3 9826 8767
E-mail: janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au
<mailto:vanessa.brotto at deakin.edu.au>  
Website: http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au <http://www.deakin.edu.au/hmnbs/nursing> 

Blog: http://jansona.edublogs.org <http://jansona.edublogs.org/> 

From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au]
On Behalf Of Townsley, Andrew A
Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2010 12:51 PM
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302

OK well enough said on this topic. I cant make sense of some of these
replies and it is just turning into an argument. 

A.Townsley 
townsley.andrew.a at edumail.vic.gov.au 
Fountain Gate SC 

-----Original Message----- 
From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Cameron Bell 
Sent: Wed 5/05/2010 8:32 AM 
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List 
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302 

Andrew, you can't go saying things like that. It blows our whole "industry
standard" argument out of the water! How can my Yr 7's expect to get a job
in 15 years time without access to the latest you-beaut , enterprise-grade,
encryption enabled, cloud-ready  package if I can't play with it myself and
then teach them?

I can't believe this heresy! 
Next you'll be telling me that we could teach ICT with FLOSS only! 
Cheers 
Cameron 

:P   ;) 

On 04/05/2010, at 1:42 PM, Townsley, Andrew A wrote: 

> Hi, 
> 
> My issue was we shouldnt be teaching how to use an application package but
teach skills instead. Skills can be transferred across packages and this
make more educational sense.

> 

> A.Townsley 
> 
> townsley.andrew.a at edumail.vic.gov.au 
> Fountain Gate SC 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Bane, Janet A 
> Sent: Sat 1/05/2010 4:05 PM 
> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List 
> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302 
>   
> Hi all, 
>   
> When I said "I hope this will be a useful resource for others, and if you
have comments/suggestions/tips about Expression Web that you want to share
I, for one, would be most grateful" - this wasn't quite what I meant!  I
think you are all missing the point here. 

> 
>   
> The point is that there are many different packages out there which people
use to do Outcome 2.  The web authoring/virtual team SAC continues in the
next study design as well.  I don't want to debate the merits of each type
of software. (my software is better than your software....no it
isn't.....yes it is..... - its all pretty childish if you ask me!).  In most
schools you "get what you're given", and in my case, Expression Web is what
I was given to work with. 

> 
>   
> All I was trying to do was to provide a resource for others who may also
be using Expression Web  and would like some guidance  (as there is nothing
out there).  Just do a search through the vitta resources with the word
"expression web" and see how many you get.    As far as EW itself is
concerned, I have only scratched the surface, but can see there are a lot of
innovations and improvements over Front Page.  It is quite suitable for high
school student level and as Mark K has stated, the aim of the SAC is not to
turn out ready-made web designers, but students who have a good working
knowledge of how a virtual team works.  They don't need to get too
technical. 

> 
>   
> Finally, you may be surprised to  know that  many schools are using
Expression Web, Dreamweaver or even the old Front Page.   If you are in a
Govt School, it is likely that you are using MS products (FP or EW) and
therefore resources such as mine are probably of interest. For those that
aren't,  perhaps you would like to upload some of the ones you have
developed, Andrew, so we can share some of your expertise as well.

> 
>   
>   regards 
>   
> Janet Bane 
> Patterson River SC 
> 
>   _____ 
> 
> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Townsley, Andrew A 
> Sent: Fri 30-Apr-10 5:34 PM 
> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List 
> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> I really wouldnt bother with expression web or dreamweaver  IMHO. 
>  IT isnt a professional product like VWD which you can easily add
interactive content and it is free. 
> This will teach actually skills that some students can extend their
learning on. 
> 
> Next best would be PHP. YOu dont need to code interactive stuff but this
will cater for all learners. 
> 
> A.Townsley 
> townsley.andrew.a at edumail.vic.gov.au 
> Fountain Gate SC 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Bane, Janet A 
> Sent: Fri 30/04/2010 4:24 PM 
> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List 
> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302 
>   
> Hi all 
>   
> I have been dragged (kicking and screaming), into the wonderful world of
Expression Web.  Our technicians took away Front Page when we upgraded to
Windows 7.

> 
> 
> The first thing I found out was that there are very few good resources out
there, and even fewer people who could actually show/tell  me what to do.
Lots of stuff had changed (or maybe it hadn't, I just couldn't find it).  SO
....   after lots of tense moments, I have come up with a set of notes,
written for Expression Web users, based on the notes I did earlier for Front
Page.  It follows the development of the website for Fast Feet, which I'm
sure most people are familiar with, if they have the VITTA CD for the
current study design. 

> 
> 
> It is now available on the VITTA site, under the title: Fast feet with
Expression web. 
>   
> It goes through the steps involved in creating and developing the website
for Fast Feet.  It contains Home, Management, Production, Customer and
Bulletin Board pages and a Staff login page as well as some theory questions
along the way.  The customer page is optional as the website is for the
virtual team, however I include it to show students how to use form
elements. 

> 
> 
> I hope this will be a useful resource for others, and if you have
comments/suggestions/tips about Expression Web that you want to share I, for
one, would be most grateful.

> 
> 
> regards 
>   
>   
> Janet Bane 
> Patterson River SC 
> 
>   _____ 
> 
> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Mark KELLY 
> Sent: Thu 29-Apr-10 8:25 AM 
> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List 
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] U302 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 12:36 PM, Townsley, Andrew A
<townsley.andrew.a at edumail.vic.gov.au> wrote: 
> 
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> Reading the Study Design for unit 302 I am seeing that students need to
create a website with 'non-functional' interactive content for a virtual
team. Also they need to evaluate it.

> 
> 1)If my students know how to make websites already then what new skills do
I need to teach them for this? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The webmaking skills are pretty modest, so not a lot of training may be
required.  That's why I do U3O2 as the first outcome.  What the kids do need
to know is the needs of a virtual team and how they can be satisfied with a
website.  That's really what is being assessed (as well as the basic
networking knowledge required.)

> 
> Their site has to demonstrate an ability to help a vt share information
and make decisions, and the kids have to demonstrate appropriate tools to
achieve those ends (e.g. chat, wiki, forum, shared calendar, security [e.g.
a simulated login page to their site], file exchange, team contacts etc).

> 
> Since most of these tools will have to be simulated because of the
restrictions in a classroom environment, their image editing skills will
need to be developed so they can doctor screenshots of such tools in action.

> 
> I can add interactive content with VS2008 VWD ( I hope people are using
this or PHP and not dreamweaver/frontpage). 
>  The example SAC's I saw didn't really expand on basic web site building
skills. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't get distracted by spending huge efforts trying to make functional
sites: that is not really the point of the outcome.  It's about the needs of
virtual teams.  Software Development is the arena for cracking open
VS2008...

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A.Townsley 
> townsley.andrew.a at edumail.vic.gov.au 
> Fountain Gate SC 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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