[Year 12 IT Apps] REVIEW OF VCE INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY, SUMMARYOF PROPOSED CHANGES TO THE STUDY DESIGN

Wed Aug 19 12:53:22 EST 2009

It _is_ a practical test, and does contribute 20 marks to unit 3... It's 
not insignificant.

Add on the short written test on RDBMS and databases in U3O2 are worth 
about 30 marks* - as much as the prototype website is worth in the 
current U3O2.

Combine that with 60 marks of Unit 4 and databases now consume 90/200 
marks for all ITA SACs: 45% of all outcomes!

And assuming databases are valued on in the end of year exams, they are 
clearly the dominant factor in the proposed ITA.

*Assuming the practical spreadsheet test in U3O2 is also worth 20 marks

margaret.lawson at konstantkaos.net wrote:
> Geoff
> 
> Great points, my knowledge of the VCE is that none of the subjects except
> maybe LOTE have prerequisites. What do we do at the moment? work like hell
> to make sure that the kids are upto speed before we start the "real
> course". Perhaps  we ought to be looking at Units 1-4 as entire course of
> study rather than U3/4 as a convenient Year 11 Unit 3/4 study. Worth
> discussing!
> 
> The extra database task in U3 is a test, is it not? So it isn't an
> extended SAC task such as the one we currently do. I think that two
> extended tasks would have been too much, but I think that the test will
> work well.
> 
> :)
> 
> Margaret
> 
> 
> 
>> Margaret
>>
>> I like your enthusiasm for databases, but I feel many of your comments
>> rest
>> on students having had a prior knowledge of databases from Year 11 or
>> earlier.  You even implore a greater emphasis at Year 11.
>>
>> At RMIT most, read over 90%, of our students doing VCE IT have not studied
>> Year 11 IT or had much previous IT experience.
>>
>> Our students already struggle with the first outcome because they do not
>> have any prior knowledge of databases, let alone a DBMS.  I have students
>> in
>> my classes who do have not studied IT in lower education.  Should I
>> exclude
>> these students?  Remember, there is no pre-requisite for entering Year 12
>> ITA.
>>
>> As we accept students from many socio-economic backgrounds and many who
>> have
>> failed in other schools and want to complete their VCE in another
>> environment, we already have a significant leakage of students completing
>> the year.  The doubling of databases would increase the loss.
>>
>> I have conducted a survey of our current students and I would suffer a
>> further loss of at least another third of the remaining students if they
>> were required to do an extra database exercise.  Some others would
>> question
>> whether they would select the study if they were told that there were two
>> database tasks.
>>
>> Year 11 IT (Units 1 and 2) is not a pre-requisite to doing Year 12 (Unit 3
>> and 4).  Thus, imploring a greater emphasis at Year 11, in our situation,
>> does not assist because we do not get a significant flow on.  I would see
>> our two classes of ITA become one with the introduction of 2 databases and
>> would be concerned that we would struggle to maintain the numbers
>> throughout
>> the year.
>>
>> As for tertiary courses, at RMIT we do not presume prior knowledge of
>> databases for students entering our IT courses.  Our tertiary students
>> come
>> from a variety of backgrounds, many of whom do NOT do IT at Year 11 or 12.
>>
>> There is no presumed VCE knowledge and I cannot foresee that VCE IT would
>> become a pre-requisite for a university course.  To use this as an
>> argument
>> in justification of extra databases is fallacious.
>>
>> Geoff Moss
>> RMIT
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Margaret Lawson" <margaret.lawson at konstantkaos.net>
>> To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"
>> <itapps at edulists.com.au>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] REVIEW OF VCE INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY,
>> SUMMARYOF PROPOSED CHANGES TO THE STUDY DESIGN
>>
>>
>>> So what you are saying Mark is that we shouldn't offer an IT curriculum
>>> that is grounded in something that is fundamentally IT, such as Database
>>> concepts, but rather something more exciting such as image manipulation
>>> which sounds a lot like the "Graphic Communication" curriculum.
>>>
>>> If what this subject wants, in the long term, is to be a pre-requisite
>>> for a university course, then it needs to have curriculum that is
>>> fundamentally IT in nature.
>>> It is up to *us* as the teachers of the subject to interpret the study
>>> design and make the curriculum exciting for the kids. If you want to
>>> teach photo editing, then teach graphic communication, or certificate
>>> III multimedia (does that still exist?). After all a database is only as
>>> exciting as the data that is in it ...... just think about the
>>> possibilities for depth of learning if the kids are doing two SAC's
>>> (prac test and extended) in databases?
>>>
>>> I like the fact that the new study design is concentrating on databases.
>>> I know that they can be bland, but it is a key IT concept and an
>>> important one at that.
>>> I would like to see a greater emphasis on Year 11 IT so that the kids
>>> that coming into Unit 3/4 have used and abused databases before.
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> Margaret
>>>
>>> Part time St. Michaels
>>> Part time Konstant Kaos
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark Kelly wrote:
>>>> Why don't we teach Shakespeare in grade 3 English classes?  Because
>>>> the clients don't NEED it; they don't WANT it; it is of NO USE to
>>>> them; and it is damned BORING to them.
>>>>
>>>> And if we did teach it, would we double the dose when they failed to
>>>> understand it?  That's what is being proposed, as far as I can see.
>>>>
>>>> It reminds me of a conversation:
>>>>
>>>> Mother: Eat your beans*.
>>>>
>>>> Child: I HATE BEANS!  They are BORING and TASTELESS and FARTFUL and I
>>>> HATE HATE HATE THEM!
>>>>
>>>> Mother: Hmm.  Data reveals that child refuses to absorb beans.  Let's
>>>> DOUBLE the beans.  That will surely fix the problem.
>>>>
>>>> This is really a step in the wrong direction. We had it better in the
>>>> previous IPM U3O1 where kids actually ENJOYED doing photo editing.  Is
>>>> that so evil?
>>>>
>>>> I am seriously feeling that I don't want to teach this proposed new
>>>> course.  Seriously, folks: I'd rather take ITA off McKinnon's VCE
>>>> offerings and only offer Software Development.  I'd be embarrassed
>>>> justifying the proposed ITA as a stimulating VCE option.
>>>>
>>>> Our VCE information night is in two days... and I dread telling
>>>> current year tens that they will face a course with double-databases
>>>> in 2011...
>>>>
>>>> "Line up, sign up: there are plenty of databases for everyone.  No
>>>> pushing. Well, yes, it IS boring, but it is useful. How is it useful?
>>>> Well, no.  It won't be relevant to any of your other VCE subjects, and
>>>> it's useless in daily life.  And, yes, serious RDMS normalisation
>>>> (e.g. many-to-many relationships) IS really complex... more complex
>>>> than much of the stuff in the Software Development course.  So you
>>>> have no real interest in IT and would rather do Commerce?  Strange..."
>>>>
>>>> Wouldn't it be more honest to call the new course: IT: Data?
>>>>
>>>> And if the kids did enter tertiary IT (after surviving the new IT:
>>>> Data), would they not be completely retrained anyway?  Do any tertiary
>>>> courses assume prerequisite knowledge of VCE key knowledge. Don't they
>>>> start from scratch?
>>>>
>>>> I appreciate the new course's desire to deepen students' understanding
>>>> of topics by reducing the breadth of study. This proposed course would
>>>> deepen the misery of IT study, not its fascination.
>>>>
>>>> I can understand and appreciate dropping project management.  Dull,
>>>> irrelevant, and employed really artificially in outcomes.  But
>>>> databases not only persist, but they are doubled??  Badly, seriously
>>>> wrong, IMHO.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Hint: Beans == Databases.
>>>>
>>>> Mark Kelly wrote:
>>>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/vceconsult/itsumofchanges.doc
>>>>>
>>>>> *TWO* ITA outcomes using databases?  O! no no no...
>>>>>
>>>>> ITA enrolments have been bad enough recently.
>>>>>
>>>>> This will surely kill them stone dead.
>>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Margaret Lawson
>>>
>>> Konstant Kaos Designs
>>>
>>> ABN 50 523 597 927
>>>
>>> 26 Nash Street
>>> Northcote 3070
>>> Victoria Australia
>>> M: 0407 896309
>>> P: 9489 6309
>>>
>>> margaret.lawson at konstantkaos.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Teachers
>>> Association Inc
>>
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>>
>>
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>> IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
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>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
> http://www.vitta.org.au  - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Mark Kelly
Manager - Information Systems
McKinnon Secondary College
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