[Year 12 IT Apps] REVIEW OF VCE INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY, SUMMARYOF PROPOSED CHANGES TO THE STUDY DESIGN

Wed Aug 19 13:14:55 EST 2009

I didn't mean to belittle the humble test, but psychologically for the
kids a test seems to be better received than an ongoing extended task. For
us teachers, the SAC is delivered and marked in a shorter period of time.

:)

Margaret

> It _is_ a practical test, and does contribute 20 marks to unit 3... It's
> not insignificant.
>
> Add on the short written test on RDBMS and databases in U3O2 are worth
> about 30 marks* - as much as the prototype website is worth in the
> current U3O2.
>
> Combine that with 60 marks of Unit 4 and databases now consume 90/200
> marks for all ITA SACs: 45% of all outcomes!
>
> And assuming databases are valued on in the end of year exams, they are
> clearly the dominant factor in the proposed ITA.
>
>
> *Assuming the practical spreadsheet test in U3O2 is also worth 20 marks
>
> margaret.lawson at konstantkaos.net wrote:
>> Geoff
>>
>> Great points, my knowledge of the VCE is that none of the subjects
>> except
>> maybe LOTE have prerequisites. What do we do at the moment? work like
>> hell
>> to make sure that the kids are upto speed before we start the "real
>> course". Perhaps  we ought to be looking at Units 1-4 as entire course
>> of
>> study rather than U3/4 as a convenient Year 11 Unit 3/4 study. Worth
>> discussing!
>>
>> The extra database task in U3 is a test, is it not? So it isn't an
>> extended SAC task such as the one we currently do. I think that two
>> extended tasks would have been too much, but I think that the test will
>> work well.
>>
>> :)
>>
>> Margaret
>>
>>
>>
>>> Margaret
>>>
>>> I like your enthusiasm for databases, but I feel many of your comments
>>> rest
>>> on students having had a prior knowledge of databases from Year 11 or
>>> earlier.  You even implore a greater emphasis at Year 11.
>>>
>>> At RMIT most, read over 90%, of our students doing VCE IT have not
>>> studied
>>> Year 11 IT or had much previous IT experience.
>>>
>>> Our students already struggle with the first outcome because they do
>>> not
>>> have any prior knowledge of databases, let alone a DBMS.  I have
>>> students
>>> in
>>> my classes who do have not studied IT in lower education.  Should I
>>> exclude
>>> these students?  Remember, there is no pre-requisite for entering Year
>>> 12
>>> ITA.
>>>
>>> As we accept students from many socio-economic backgrounds and many who
>>> have
>>> failed in other schools and want to complete their VCE in another
>>> environment, we already have a significant leakage of students
>>> completing
>>> the year.  The doubling of databases would increase the loss.
>>>
>>> I have conducted a survey of our current students and I would suffer a
>>> further loss of at least another third of the remaining students if
>>> they
>>> were required to do an extra database exercise.  Some others would
>>> question
>>> whether they would select the study if they were told that there were
>>> two
>>> database tasks.
>>>
>>> Year 11 IT (Units 1 and 2) is not a pre-requisite to doing Year 12
>>> (Unit 3
>>> and 4).  Thus, imploring a greater emphasis at Year 11, in our
>>> situation,
>>> does not assist because we do not get a significant flow on.  I would
>>> see
>>> our two classes of ITA become one with the introduction of 2 databases
>>> and
>>> would be concerned that we would struggle to maintain the numbers
>>> throughout
>>> the year.
>>>
>>> As for tertiary courses, at RMIT we do not presume prior knowledge of
>>> databases for students entering our IT courses.  Our tertiary students
>>> come
>>> from a variety of backgrounds, many of whom do NOT do IT at Year 11 or
>>> 12.
>>>
>>> There is no presumed VCE knowledge and I cannot foresee that VCE IT
>>> would
>>> become a pre-requisite for a university course.  To use this as an
>>> argument
>>> in justification of extra databases is fallacious.
>>>
>>> Geoff Moss
>>> RMIT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Margaret Lawson" <margaret.lawson at konstantkaos.net>
>>> To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"
>>> <itapps at edulists.com.au>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] REVIEW OF VCE INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY,
>>> SUMMARYOF PROPOSED CHANGES TO THE STUDY DESIGN
>>>
>>>
>>>> So what you are saying Mark is that we shouldn't offer an IT
>>>> curriculum
>>>> that is grounded in something that is fundamentally IT, such as
>>>> Database
>>>> concepts, but rather something more exciting such as image
>>>> manipulation
>>>> which sounds a lot like the "Graphic Communication" curriculum.
>>>>
>>>> If what this subject wants, in the long term, is to be a pre-requisite
>>>> for a university course, then it needs to have curriculum that is
>>>> fundamentally IT in nature.
>>>> It is up to *us* as the teachers of the subject to interpret the study
>>>> design and make the curriculum exciting for the kids. If you want to
>>>> teach photo editing, then teach graphic communication, or certificate
>>>> III multimedia (does that still exist?). After all a database is only
>>>> as
>>>> exciting as the data that is in it ...... just think about the
>>>> possibilities for depth of learning if the kids are doing two SAC's
>>>> (prac test and extended) in databases?
>>>>
>>>> I like the fact that the new study design is concentrating on
>>>> databases.
>>>> I know that they can be bland, but it is a key IT concept and an
>>>> important one at that.
>>>> I would like to see a greater emphasis on Year 11 IT so that the kids
>>>> that coming into Unit 3/4 have used and abused databases before.
>>>>
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>> Margaret
>>>>
>>>> Part time St. Michaels
>>>> Part time Konstant Kaos
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mark Kelly wrote:
>>>>> Why don't we teach Shakespeare in grade 3 English classes?  Because
>>>>> the clients don't NEED it; they don't WANT it; it is of NO USE to
>>>>> them; and it is damned BORING to them.
>>>>>
>>>>> And if we did teach it, would we double the dose when they failed to
>>>>> understand it?  That's what is being proposed, as far as I can see.
>>>>>
>>>>> It reminds me of a conversation:
>>>>>
>>>>> Mother: Eat your beans*.
>>>>>
>>>>> Child: I HATE BEANS!  They are BORING and TASTELESS and FARTFUL and I
>>>>> HATE HATE HATE THEM!
>>>>>
>>>>> Mother: Hmm.  Data reveals that child refuses to absorb beans.  Let's
>>>>> DOUBLE the beans.  That will surely fix the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is really a step in the wrong direction. We had it better in the
>>>>> previous IPM U3O1 where kids actually ENJOYED doing photo editing.
>>>>> Is
>>>>> that so evil?
>>>>>
>>>>> I am seriously feeling that I don't want to teach this proposed new
>>>>> course.  Seriously, folks: I'd rather take ITA off McKinnon's VCE
>>>>> offerings and only offer Software Development.  I'd be embarrassed
>>>>> justifying the proposed ITA as a stimulating VCE option.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our VCE information night is in two days... and I dread telling
>>>>> current year tens that they will face a course with double-databases
>>>>> in 2011...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Line up, sign up: there are plenty of databases for everyone.  No
>>>>> pushing. Well, yes, it IS boring, but it is useful. How is it useful?
>>>>> Well, no.  It won't be relevant to any of your other VCE subjects,
>>>>> and
>>>>> it's useless in daily life.  And, yes, serious RDMS normalisation
>>>>> (e.g. many-to-many relationships) IS really complex... more complex
>>>>> than much of the stuff in the Software Development course.  So you
>>>>> have no real interest in IT and would rather do Commerce?
>>>>> Strange..."
>>>>>
>>>>> Wouldn't it be more honest to call the new course: IT: Data?
>>>>>
>>>>> And if the kids did enter tertiary IT (after surviving the new IT:
>>>>> Data), would they not be completely retrained anyway?  Do any
>>>>> tertiary
>>>>> courses assume prerequisite knowledge of VCE key knowledge. Don't
>>>>> they
>>>>> start from scratch?
>>>>>
>>>>> I appreciate the new course's desire to deepen students'
>>>>> understanding
>>>>> of topics by reducing the breadth of study. This proposed course
>>>>> would
>>>>> deepen the misery of IT study, not its fascination.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can understand and appreciate dropping project management.  Dull,
>>>>> irrelevant, and employed really artificially in outcomes.  But
>>>>> databases not only persist, but they are doubled??  Badly, seriously
>>>>> wrong, IMHO.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Hint: Beans == Databases.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark Kelly wrote:
>>>>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/vceconsult/itsumofchanges.doc
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *TWO* ITA outcomes using databases?  O! no no no...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ITA enrolments have been bad enough recently.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This will surely kill them stone dead.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Margaret Lawson
>>>>
>>>> Konstant Kaos Designs
>>>>
>>>> ABN 50 523 597 927
>>>>
>>>> 26 Nash Street
>>>> Northcote 3070
>>>> Victoria Australia
>>>> M: 0407 896309
>>>> P: 9489 6309
>>>>
>>>> margaret.lawson at konstantkaos.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
>>>> IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
>>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html
>>>> -
>>>> Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
>>>> http://www.vitta.org.au  - VITTA Victorian Information Technology
>>>> Teachers
>>>> Association Inc
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.61/2312 - Release Date:
>>> 08/18/09
>>> 18:05:00
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
>>> IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html
>>> -
>>> Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
>>> http://www.vitta.org.au  - VITTA Victorian Information Technology
>>> Teachers
>>> Association Inc
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
>> IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html -
>> Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
>> http://www.vitta.org.au  - VITTA Victorian Information Technology
>> Teachers Association Inc
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Mark Kelly
> Manager - Information Systems
> McKinnon Secondary College
> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
> Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085
> School Phone +613 8520 9000
> School Fax +613 9578 9253
> kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>
> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
> IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
>
> RealMenDon'tNeedSpacebars.
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html -
> Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
> http://www.vitta.org.au  - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers
> Association Inc
>