[Year 12 IT Apps] REVIEW OF VCE INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY, SUMMARYOF PROPOSED CHANGES TO THE STUDY DESIGN

Wed Aug 19 12:18:11 EST 2009

Geoff

Great points, my knowledge of the VCE is that none of the subjects except
maybe LOTE have prerequisites. What do we do at the moment? work like hell
to make sure that the kids are upto speed before we start the "real
course". Perhaps  we ought to be looking at Units 1-4 as entire course of
study rather than U3/4 as a convenient Year 11 Unit 3/4 study. Worth
discussing!

The extra database task in U3 is a test, is it not? So it isn't an
extended SAC task such as the one we currently do. I think that two
extended tasks would have been too much, but I think that the test will
work well.

:)

Margaret

> Margaret
>
> I like your enthusiasm for databases, but I feel many of your comments
> rest
> on students having had a prior knowledge of databases from Year 11 or
> earlier.  You even implore a greater emphasis at Year 11.
>
> At RMIT most, read over 90%, of our students doing VCE IT have not studied
> Year 11 IT or had much previous IT experience.
>
> Our students already struggle with the first outcome because they do not
> have any prior knowledge of databases, let alone a DBMS.  I have students
> in
> my classes who do have not studied IT in lower education.  Should I
> exclude
> these students?  Remember, there is no pre-requisite for entering Year 12
> ITA.
>
> As we accept students from many socio-economic backgrounds and many who
> have
> failed in other schools and want to complete their VCE in another
> environment, we already have a significant leakage of students completing
> the year.  The doubling of databases would increase the loss.
>
> I have conducted a survey of our current students and I would suffer a
> further loss of at least another third of the remaining students if they
> were required to do an extra database exercise.  Some others would
> question
> whether they would select the study if they were told that there were two
> database tasks.
>
> Year 11 IT (Units 1 and 2) is not a pre-requisite to doing Year 12 (Unit 3
> and 4).  Thus, imploring a greater emphasis at Year 11, in our situation,
> does not assist because we do not get a significant flow on.  I would see
> our two classes of ITA become one with the introduction of 2 databases and
> would be concerned that we would struggle to maintain the numbers
> throughout
> the year.
>
> As for tertiary courses, at RMIT we do not presume prior knowledge of
> databases for students entering our IT courses.  Our tertiary students
> come
> from a variety of backgrounds, many of whom do NOT do IT at Year 11 or 12.
>
> There is no presumed VCE knowledge and I cannot foresee that VCE IT would
> become a pre-requisite for a university course.  To use this as an
> argument
> in justification of extra databases is fallacious.
>
> Geoff Moss
> RMIT
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Margaret Lawson" <margaret.lawson at konstantkaos.net>
> To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"
> <itapps at edulists.com.au>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] REVIEW OF VCE INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY,
> SUMMARYOF PROPOSED CHANGES TO THE STUDY DESIGN
>
>
>> So what you are saying Mark is that we shouldn't offer an IT curriculum
>> that is grounded in something that is fundamentally IT, such as Database
>> concepts, but rather something more exciting such as image manipulation
>> which sounds a lot like the "Graphic Communication" curriculum.
>>
>> If what this subject wants, in the long term, is to be a pre-requisite
>> for a university course, then it needs to have curriculum that is
>> fundamentally IT in nature.
>> It is up to *us* as the teachers of the subject to interpret the study
>> design and make the curriculum exciting for the kids. If you want to
>> teach photo editing, then teach graphic communication, or certificate
>> III multimedia (does that still exist?). After all a database is only as
>> exciting as the data that is in it ...... just think about the
>> possibilities for depth of learning if the kids are doing two SAC's
>> (prac test and extended) in databases?
>>
>> I like the fact that the new study design is concentrating on databases.
>> I know that they can be bland, but it is a key IT concept and an
>> important one at that.
>> I would like to see a greater emphasis on Year 11 IT so that the kids
>> that coming into Unit 3/4 have used and abused databases before.
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Margaret
>>
>> Part time St. Michaels
>> Part time Konstant Kaos
>>
>>
>> Mark Kelly wrote:
>>> Why don't we teach Shakespeare in grade 3 English classes?  Because
>>> the clients don't NEED it; they don't WANT it; it is of NO USE to
>>> them; and it is damned BORING to them.
>>>
>>> And if we did teach it, would we double the dose when they failed to
>>> understand it?  That's what is being proposed, as far as I can see.
>>>
>>> It reminds me of a conversation:
>>>
>>> Mother: Eat your beans*.
>>>
>>> Child: I HATE BEANS!  They are BORING and TASTELESS and FARTFUL and I
>>> HATE HATE HATE THEM!
>>>
>>> Mother: Hmm.  Data reveals that child refuses to absorb beans.  Let's
>>> DOUBLE the beans.  That will surely fix the problem.
>>>
>>> This is really a step in the wrong direction. We had it better in the
>>> previous IPM U3O1 where kids actually ENJOYED doing photo editing.  Is
>>> that so evil?
>>>
>>> I am seriously feeling that I don't want to teach this proposed new
>>> course.  Seriously, folks: I'd rather take ITA off McKinnon's VCE
>>> offerings and only offer Software Development.  I'd be embarrassed
>>> justifying the proposed ITA as a stimulating VCE option.
>>>
>>> Our VCE information night is in two days... and I dread telling
>>> current year tens that they will face a course with double-databases
>>> in 2011...
>>>
>>> "Line up, sign up: there are plenty of databases for everyone.  No
>>> pushing. Well, yes, it IS boring, but it is useful. How is it useful?
>>> Well, no.  It won't be relevant to any of your other VCE subjects, and
>>> it's useless in daily life.  And, yes, serious RDMS normalisation
>>> (e.g. many-to-many relationships) IS really complex... more complex
>>> than much of the stuff in the Software Development course.  So you
>>> have no real interest in IT and would rather do Commerce?  Strange..."
>>>
>>> Wouldn't it be more honest to call the new course: IT: Data?
>>>
>>> And if the kids did enter tertiary IT (after surviving the new IT:
>>> Data), would they not be completely retrained anyway?  Do any tertiary
>>> courses assume prerequisite knowledge of VCE key knowledge. Don't they
>>> start from scratch?
>>>
>>> I appreciate the new course's desire to deepen students' understanding
>>> of topics by reducing the breadth of study. This proposed course would
>>> deepen the misery of IT study, not its fascination.
>>>
>>> I can understand and appreciate dropping project management.  Dull,
>>> irrelevant, and employed really artificially in outcomes.  But
>>> databases not only persist, but they are doubled??  Badly, seriously
>>> wrong, IMHO.
>>>
>>>
>>> *Hint: Beans == Databases.
>>>
>>> Mark Kelly wrote:
>>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/vceconsult/itsumofchanges.doc
>>>>
>>>> *TWO* ITA outcomes using databases?  O! no no no...
>>>>
>>>> ITA enrolments have been bad enough recently.
>>>>
>>>> This will surely kill them stone dead.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Margaret Lawson
>>
>> Konstant Kaos Designs
>>
>> ABN 50 523 597 927
>>
>> 26 Nash Street
>> Northcote 3070
>> Victoria Australia
>> M: 0407 896309
>> P: 9489 6309
>>
>> margaret.lawson at konstantkaos.net
>>
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>
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