[Yr7-10it] RE: Learning PERL (or PHP,PYTHON)

Fri Nov 30 10:43:36 EST 2007

Hi folks ... we had no SD class this year, but for the last few years,
I've used php.  Next year, with a class running, I'm intending to use
python.

The last time I ran multiple languages in one class was many years ago,
and at Year 11 level.  I had C, Pascal and VB going, and it drove me
bonkers - switching my brain from debugging one to debugging the other,
and trying to keep the kids from using the syntax from on in the other.
Hard work.

If there any other intending python users out there, I'd be interested
to be in touch ...

________________________________

From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Kent Beveridge
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 10:03 AM
To: Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Learning PERL (or PHP,PYTHON)

Hi again list..
Got some feedback from the kids about what THEY are interested in
learning next year for Y10 IT.
I already was going to increase the multi-media focus with programming
moving up a level(this year they pretty much met programming for the
first time with VB6 and Scratch).
One student is interested in PERL (and C++ !)

My question to you guys...
Has anyone run IT classes using multiple languages at the same time
given different interests of students. I would like to give students an
opportunity to try what they are interested in and this might mean
multiple languages running in the one classroom at the same time.
Perhaps as a short term learning project eg 4-6 weeks or even a term
with the focus on just computer languages.

What do others think? Has/is anyone else done/doing this? Does it work?
Anyone got any lesson plans on this approach they could share? 
I havent used PHP, PERL, PYTHON but am willing to give 'em a try!  Heck,
why not..

In fear of stating the obvious...the boys(yep, boys!) want to program to
make games..well some of them do..  From what I've been hearing on this
list, it seems mostly the girls who seem to be doing the programming.
If I am right, chalk one up for the male gender!

On a timetabling point...My IT subjects all magically seemed to get
'blocked' with either sport or Outdoor Ed, when the subject selection
lists went out. Is it no wonder that this subject did poorly when
considering its a country town with an emphasis on sports!  Ahh well, we
can only do the best we can I guess. Off the record, a few of my
students are rapt with all the different new stuff we tried this year.
Its nice to know when you try to implement new ideas, that some of the
kids appreciate your efforts.

Kent Beveridge,
I.T. co-ordinator
St. Brigids Catholic Sec. College
Horsham
email.. kbeveridge at stbc.vic.edu.au

|<3|\|7  b3\/3r1D93 ?  ;-)

Wishes and Eggs, one you make and one you break!  A bit like
promises.....
"This email and any attachments may be confidential.  You must not
disclose or use the information in this email if you are not the
intended recipient.  If you have received this email in error, please
notify us immediately and delete the email and all copies.  The School
does not guarantee that this email is virus or error free.  The attached
files are provided and my only be used on the basis that the user
assumes all responsibility for any loss, damage or consequence resulting
directly or indirectly from the use of the attached files, whether
caused by the negligence of the sender or not.  The content and opinions
in this email are not necessarily those of the School."

________________________________

From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Adrian Janson
Sent: Fri 11/30/2007 8:56 AM
To: 'Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [Yr7-10it] Re buzz words from 22/11....

Hi Bill and all,

This debate over the quality of the keynote and the VITTA conference
theme is an interesting one - and one which I welcome.

Russell,

>heheh, if I get shouted down like that on a *discussion* list, why
would I want to join a committee for more of the same?  If dissenting
opinions are not >only unvalued but vehemently attacked, what is the
point?

Please do not get the impression that you were shouted down - far from
it (and this is one of the key difficulties with email).  As
representatives of VITTA, we have the right to a reply to your comments
- just as you have the right to make them.  I would like to reiterate
that your input is indeed not only welcomed but encouraged - and you are
just the sort of person that would be great to have on the VITTA
committee as you have strong views and a passion for education.  The
fact that you felt that the keynote was not relevant to you and was too
reliant on 'buzz-words' is a concern to me.  Personally I feel that this
is just the sort of keynote that I want to see.  One that has vision and
is positive and thought-provoking.

>I refrained from pursuing this further on the list because I do respect
the hard work done by VITTA - and overall I do think the conference was
great, meaning for me, the workshops. 
>However, I do see a problem with keynotes both in general and with
Stephen Heppell's keynote in particular. I did blog about it instead
here:
>http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2007/11/some-thoughts-about-prof-stephen.
html

Bill - a point of order.  Not posting to the IT list - but instead
posting to your blog and posting the link to the IT list are exactly the
same.

Bill - I respect your opinion a great deal.  As an inter-state guest of
our conference and a regular contributor to these lists and the IT
community, your input into matters like this is very welcome - in fact,
you would be very welcome to have input into the organisation of our
conference next year.

The setting of a conference theme is something that is not trivial (nor
have you suggested this).  The VITTA committee spent a great deal of
time on the conference theme - one which I was extremely happy with.
The Michael Wesch Web2.0 video provided particular inspiration to us
(and I know that you do not necessarily feel the same way about it).  Is
it important to have a conference theme?  Absolutely yes!  Is it
important to have a keynote - and indeed keynote/s in the style
presented at our conference?  Yes it is.  It is my belief that the
function of a keynote is to provide inspiration, big ideas, promote
discussion (and debate - and in this regard - it has certainly been
successful).

The overwhelming feedback that we have received has been very positive.
I am personally sorry that the keynote or the VITTA conference
(excluding the workshops) did not meet your needs Bill.  However, we
sought to meet the needs of the many and to that end we have been very
successful.  

I would be very happy to continue this discussion off-list (as I am sure
that others are getting sick of - and apologies for this).

Cheers,

Adrian

Adrian Janson, 

VITTA President
Director of ICT, 
Melbourne High School, 

Forrest Hill, South Yarra 3141 Australia.
Phone: 03 9826 0711 International: +61 3 9826 0711
Fax: 03 9826 8767 International: +61 3 9826 8767
E-mail: janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au
Website: http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au <http://www.mhs.vic.edu.ausrsing/> 

IMPORTANT - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before
opening or using attachments, check them for viruses and defects.
Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the
negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from
the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying
any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed in
this email are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those
of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

________________________________

From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Bill Kerr
Sent: Friday, 30 November 2007 8:13 AM
To: Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Yr7-10it] Re buzz words from 22/11....

hi phil,

I refrained from pursuing this further on the list because I do respect
the hard work done by VITTA - and overall I do think the conference was
great, meaning for me, the workshops. 

I accept there was no conscious linking b/w the "revolution" theme
emanating from VITTA and the ALP. I never thought there was. 

However, I do see a problem with keynotes both in general and with
Stephen Heppell's keynote in particular. I did blog about it instead
here:
http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2007/11/some-thoughts-about-prof-stephen.h
tml

I don't mind a theme of revolution - but its hard to deliver on it. IMV
web2.0 has become a new received wisdom. Before the conference it was
said that VELS was a revolution and Adrian in his response linked the
theme to Michael Wesch's videos (which can also be critically analysed -
see the above blog) 

What to do instead? I was asked this by Graham Wegner on my blog and I
replied as follows:

I would have preferred a debate between a web2.0 position and a
conflicting position. Any real discussion - something challenging -
would have been preferable to Stephen's nice guy avuncular message.
Surprise me! Some talks have an underlying tension, a coming together of
disparate views or an unresolved tension at the end. Stephen's talk was
far too smooth, no untidy loose ends, no internal struggle. If web2.0
was radical (it's no longer new) then wouldn't you expect this? So much
of the web2.0 material is just bland goodness. It has become the new
received wisdom. This sort of approach would have also been more
congruent with the theme of the conference ("revolution).

Part of the issue with the way Stephen's keynote worked out in practice
was this:

1) an important international expert arrives from overseas to tell us
that local knowledge is the most important thing 
2) We sit in lecture mode hearing that the lecture is no longer
important
3) the limitations of web2.0 apps are not mentioned. There was no
context either historical (computer science) or historical, about all
the knowledge discovered before computers were invented

With the ALP about to embark on an "education revolution" I think that
we need to keep our skeptical antennae tuned. See also

Revolution of the Mind
<http://bluyonder.wordpress.com/2007/11/29/revolution-of-the-mind/> 

Greg Whitby is also skeptical about Labour's education revolution,
pointing out that it's teachers not computer hardware that will be the
decisive factor in change

http://bluyonder.wordpress.com/2007/11/29/revolution-of-the-mind/

cheers,
- Bill
-- 
Bill Kerr
http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/

On Nov 29, 2007 5:00 PM, Phil Callil <P.Callil at xavier.vic.edu.au >
wrote:

"I agree; the keynote on the day I attended was 99% "bum fluff" as I
like to call it." 

My, if that isn't an unnecessarily provocative and uninformed comment,
I'm not sure what is.....

First, reading Bill's analytical and thoughtful comments about buzz
words in political policies and the like certainly caused me to think
about how such words and cliches are thrown about by both sides of the
political spectrum. Regardless, the investment made by the federal
government in education has caused us to fall behind when compared with
many OECD countries. I think that's clear.  Similarly, the government's
policies on broadband have done the same, especially when compared with
South Korea, Japan and many European and Scandinavian countries. 

They are buzz words when used by politicians who are perhaps looking for
their 10 second grab to the masses.

But to suggest that the keynotes (or even one of them) on Monday and
Tuesday were of a similar ilk is an unnecessary and fairly insulting
swipe at two people who have established international and national
reputations (respectively) for their experience and knowledge.
Heppell's delivery I thought was appealing, accessible, eye opening and
informative.  It represented a lot of ideas we need to consider when it
comes to what we want our schools to look like over the next 50 years -
ideas we need to consider if we are to fashion our own Australian
response to the educational needs of our children 

Moyle's comments I felt were not necessarily eye opening stuff but were
based on solid analysis of field research of schools, industry and
teachers. For IT practitioners at the coalface in schools, maybe they
were not necessarily eye opening but it was good to hear such views
being expressed by an academic who can influence national policy in IT
in education.  Her ideas on programming and where it sits in the
curriculum and the importance of cross platform open source apps were
very appealing - at least to me anyway. 

To suggest that the keynote on (whatever) the day  "99% 'bum fluff' " is
unfair, unnecessary and offensive.   VITTA work hard to cater for both
the IT specialists who form the bulk of the membership and teachers who
are cross curriculum.  From a subjective and objective point of view, I
think this was done successfully. 

So, whatever you do, rather than making comments like this, be a little
bit more proactive and join in the decision making process at VITTA.
Come and join the committee and have a say in the keynote speaker
selection. 

Best wishes

Phil Callil
Faculty Head IT
Xavier College

Vice President VITTA

_____________________________________________________________________

DISCLAIMER: This email and any files transmitted with it are
confidential 
and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the System Manager at Xavier College. Please note that any views or
opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do
not necessarily represent those of Xavier College.
Whilst every attempt has been made to ensure material in this email
message
is free from computer viruses or other defects, the attached files are 
provided, and may only be used, on the basis that the user assumes all
responsibility for the use of the material transmitted.
______________________________________________________________________

_______________________________________________ 
http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au/>  - FAQ,
resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
Year 7 - 10 IT Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au <http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/>  - Victorian
Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
http://www.vitta.org.au <http://www.vitta.org.au/>   - VITTA Victorian
Information Technology Teachers Association Inc 

_______________________________________________ 
http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au/> - FAQ,
resources, subscribe, unsubscribe 
Year 7 - 10 IT Mailing List kindly supported by 
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au <http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/> - Victorian
Curriculum and Assessment Authority and 
http://www.vitta.org.au <http://www.vitta.org.au/> - VITTA Victorian
Information Technology Teachers Association Inc

Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before
opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects.
Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the
negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from
the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying
any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are
those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the
Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

_______________________________________________ 
http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au/> - FAQ,
resources, subscribe, unsubscribe 
Year 7 - 10 IT Mailing List kindly supported by 
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au <http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/> - Victorian
Curriculum and Assessment Authority and 
http://www.vitta.org.au <http://www.vitta.org.au/> - VITTA Victorian
Information Technology Teachers Association Inc 

DISCLAIMER:
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom they are addressed.

If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by return email and then delete this message. 

Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Yarra Valley Grammar.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/yr7-10it/attachments/20071130/532b29a1/attachment-0001.html