[Yr7-10it] Learning PERL (or PHP,PYTHON)

Fri Nov 30 10:03:16 EST 2007

Hi again list..
Got some feedback from the kids about what THEY are interested in learning next year for Y10 IT.
I already was going to increase the multi-media focus with programming moving up a level(this year they pretty much met programming for the first time with VB6 and Scratch).
One student is interested in PERL (and C++ !)

My question to you guys...
Has anyone run IT classes using multiple languages at the same time given different interests of students. I would like to give students an opportunity to try what they are interested in and this might mean multiple languages running in the one classroom at the same time.
Perhaps as a short term learning project eg 4-6 weeks or even a term with the focus on just computer languages.

What do others think? Has/is anyone else done/doing this? Does it work? Anyone got any lesson plans on this approach they could share? 
I havent used PHP, PERL, PYTHON but am willing to give 'em a try!  Heck, why not..

In fear of stating the obvious...the boys(yep, boys!) want to program to make games..well some of them do..  From what I've been hearing on this list, it seems mostly the girls who seem to be doing the programming.  If I am right, chalk one up for the male gender!

On a timetabling point...My IT subjects all magically seemed to get 'blocked' with either sport or Outdoor Ed, when the subject selection lists went out. Is it no wonder that this subject did poorly when considering its a country town with an emphasis on sports!  Ahh well, we can only do the best we can I guess. Off the record, a few of my students are rapt with all the different new stuff we tried this year. Its nice to know when you try to implement new ideas, that some of the kids appreciate your efforts.

Kent Beveridge,
I.T. co-ordinator
St. Brigids Catholic Sec. College
Horsham
email.. kbeveridge at stbc.vic.edu.au

|<3|\|7  b3\/3r1D93 ?  ;-)

Wishes and Eggs, one you make and one you break!  A bit like promises.....
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From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Adrian Janson
Sent: Fri 11/30/2007 8:56 AM
To: 'Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [Yr7-10it] Re buzz words from 22/11....

Hi Bill and all,

This debate over the quality of the keynote and the VITTA conference theme is an interesting one - and one which I welcome.

Russell,

>heheh, if I get shouted down like that on a *discussion* list, why would I want to join a committee for more of the same?  If dissenting opinions are not >only unvalued but vehemently attacked, what is the point?

Please do not get the impression that you were shouted down - far from it (and this is one of the key difficulties with email).  As representatives of VITTA, we have the right to a reply to your comments - just as you have the right to make them.  I would like to reiterate that your input is indeed not only welcomed but encouraged - and you are just the sort of person that would be great to have on the VITTA committee as you have strong views and a passion for education.  The fact that you felt that the keynote was not relevant to you and was too reliant on 'buzz-words' is a concern to me.  Personally I feel that this is just the sort of keynote that I want to see.  One that has vision and is positive and thought-provoking.

>I refrained from pursuing this further on the list because I do respect the hard work done by VITTA - and overall I do think the conference was great, meaning for me, the workshops. 
>However, I do see a problem with keynotes both in general and with Stephen Heppell's keynote in particular. I did blog about it instead here:
>http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2007/11/some-thoughts-about-prof-stephen.html

Bill - a point of order.  Not posting to the IT list - but instead posting to your blog and posting the link to the IT list are exactly the same.

Bill - I respect your opinion a great deal.  As an inter-state guest of our conference and a regular contributor to these lists and the IT community, your input into matters like this is very welcome - in fact, you would be very welcome to have input into the organisation of our conference next year.

The setting of a conference theme is something that is not trivial (nor have you suggested this).  The VITTA committee spent a great deal of time on the conference theme - one which I was extremely happy with.  The Michael Wesch Web2.0 video provided particular inspiration to us (and I know that you do not necessarily feel the same way about it).  Is it important to have a conference theme?  Absolutely yes!  Is it important to have a keynote - and indeed keynote/s in the style presented at our conference?  Yes it is.  It is my belief that the function of a keynote is to provide inspiration, big ideas, promote discussion (and debate - and in this regard - it has certainly been successful).

The overwhelming feedback that we have received has been very positive.  I am personally sorry that the keynote or the VITTA conference (excluding the workshops) did not meet your needs Bill.  However, we sought to meet the needs of the many and to that end we have been very successful.  

I would be very happy to continue this discussion off-list (as I am sure that others are getting sick of - and apologies for this).

Cheers,

Adrian

Adrian Janson, 

VITTA President
Director of ICT, 
Melbourne High School, 

Forrest Hill, South Yarra 3141 Australia.
Phone: 03 9826 0711 International: +61 3 9826 0711
Fax: 03 9826 8767 International: +61 3 9826 8767
E-mail: janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au
Website: http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au <http://www.mhs.vic.edu.ausrsing/> 

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From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Bill Kerr
Sent: Friday, 30 November 2007 8:13 AM
To: Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Yr7-10it] Re buzz words from 22/11....

hi phil,

I refrained from pursuing this further on the list because I do respect the hard work done by VITTA - and overall I do think the conference was great, meaning for me, the workshops. 

I accept there was no conscious linking b/w the "revolution" theme emanating from VITTA and the ALP. I never thought there was. 

However, I do see a problem with keynotes both in general and with Stephen Heppell's keynote in particular. I did blog about it instead here:
http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2007/11/some-thoughts-about-prof-stephen.html

I don't mind a theme of revolution - but its hard to deliver on it. IMV web2.0 has become a new received wisdom. Before the conference it was said that VELS was a revolution and Adrian in his response linked the theme to Michael Wesch's videos (which can also be critically analysed - see the above blog) 

What to do instead? I was asked this by Graham Wegner on my blog and I replied as follows:

I would have preferred a debate between a web2.0 position and a conflicting position. Any real discussion - something challenging - would have been preferable to Stephen's nice guy avuncular message. Surprise me! Some talks have an underlying tension, a coming together of disparate views or an unresolved tension at the end. Stephen's talk was far too smooth, no untidy loose ends, no internal struggle. If web2.0 was radical (it's no longer new) then wouldn't you expect this? So much of the web2.0 material is just bland goodness. It has become the new received wisdom. This sort of approach would have also been more congruent with the theme of the conference ("revolution).

Part of the issue with the way Stephen's keynote worked out in practice was this:

1) an important international expert arrives from overseas to tell us that local knowledge is the most important thing 
2) We sit in lecture mode hearing that the lecture is no longer important
3) the limitations of web2.0 apps are not mentioned. There was no context either historical (computer science) or historical, about all the knowledge discovered before computers were invented

With the ALP about to embark on an "education revolution" I think that we need to keep our skeptical antennae tuned. See also

Revolution of the Mind <http://bluyonder.wordpress.com/2007/11/29/revolution-of-the-mind/> 

Greg Whitby is also skeptical about Labour's education revolution, pointing out that it's teachers not computer hardware that will be the decisive factor in change

http://bluyonder.wordpress.com/2007/11/29/revolution-of-the-mind/

cheers,
- Bill
-- 
Bill Kerr
http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/

On Nov 29, 2007 5:00 PM, Phil Callil <P.Callil at xavier.vic.edu.au > wrote:

"I agree; the keynote on the day I attended was 99% "bum fluff" as I  like to call it." 

My, if that isn't an unnecessarily provocative and uninformed comment, I'm not sure what is.....

First, reading Bill's analytical and thoughtful comments about buzz words in political policies and the like certainly caused me to think about how such words and cliches are thrown about by both sides of the political spectrum. Regardless, the investment made by the federal government in education has caused us to fall behind when compared with many OECD countries. I think that's clear.  Similarly, the government's policies on broadband have done the same, especially when compared with South Korea, Japan and many European and Scandinavian countries. 

They are buzz words when used by politicians who are perhaps looking for their 10 second grab to the masses.

But to suggest that the keynotes (or even one of them) on Monday and Tuesday were of a similar ilk is an unnecessary and fairly insulting swipe at two people who have established international and national  reputations (respectively) for their experience and knowledge.  Heppell's delivery I thought was appealing, accessible, eye opening and informative.  It represented a lot of ideas we need to consider when it comes to what we want our schools to look like over the next 50 years - ideas we need to consider if we are to fashion our own Australian response to the educational needs of our children 

Moyle's comments I felt were not necessarily eye opening stuff but were based on solid analysis of field research of schools, industry and teachers. For IT practitioners at the coalface in schools, maybe they were not necessarily eye opening but it was good to hear such views being expressed by an academic who can influence national policy in IT in education.  Her ideas on programming and where it sits in the curriculum and the importance of cross platform open source apps were very appealing - at least to me anyway. 

To suggest that the keynote on (whatever) the day  "99% 'bum fluff' " is unfair, unnecessary and offensive.   VITTA work hard to cater for both the IT specialists who form the bulk of the membership and teachers who are cross curriculum.  From a subjective and objective point of view, I think this was done successfully. 

So, whatever you do, rather than making comments like this, be a little bit more proactive and join in the decision making process at VITTA.  Come and join the committee and have a say in the keynote speaker selection. 

Best wishes

Phil Callil
Faculty Head IT
Xavier College

Vice President VITTA

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