[Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] RE: syseng Digest,
Vol 29, Issue 2
Peter A Ward
ward.peter.a at edumail.vic.gov.au
Thu Nov 8 13:07:25 EST 2007
Russell,
You will find it on the VCAA site in the Systems Eng. area.
cheers
Peter A Ward
Physics / Systems Engineering
Euroa Secondary College
ward.peter.a at edumail.vic.gov.au
On 08/11/2007, at 12:53 PM, Walker, Russell R wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> Can you tell me where you get a copy of the trial exam?
>
> Thanks
>
> Russell
> Walker
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au
> [mailto:syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Alex Roujnikov
> Sent: Friday, 2 November 2007 1:54 PM
> To: Systems and Engineering Teachers' Mailing List;
> syseng at edulists.com.au
> Subject: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] RE: syseng
> Digest,Vol 29, Issue 2
>
>
> Thank you Neville,
>
> I attach below my previous message in an attempt to stop the unfair
> criticism and give a fair go for the next year.
>
> Alex
>
> Hi fellow SE teachers,
>
> 1. It was easy to pick up mistakes in trial Exam paper. My year 12
> students found them and we discussed questions in class. It may sound
> weird but errors stimulated our work and increased interest to the
> Exam
> preparation. Paper is fresh and not dull. SE teachers were also alert
> and interested in the discussion.
>
> 2. The trial Exam paper, published for the first time in this
> subject as
> far as I know, is an excellent attempt to set a good standard, improve
> the rating of the subject and stimulate discussion before the Exam. We
> need to encourage those people who wrote it to publish more, may be
> with
> some editorial work from SE teachers before final publication.
>
> Thank you for the paper, good standard and very relevant to the
> subject
> at last.
>
> Regards, Alexandre Roujnikov,
>
> Physics and SE teacher,
> Penola Catholic College.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Neville YOUNG
> Sent: Fri 11/2/2007 12:10 PM
> To: syseng at edulists.com.au
> Subject: RE: syseng Digest, Vol 29, Issue 2
>
>
> I think you guys are making things too hard. I believe that you are to
> assume that the diameter of the winch will not change, you can then
> work
> out how many metres/sec the wire is being that you can hauled in at.
> (Otherwise why would it have - show all working at the end) If you
> attended the session at the DATTA (then the TEAV) the errors in the
> sample test were pointed out. Apparently a science teacher was
> responsible for the writing the exam. The surprising thing is the
> question on hydrogen fuel cells, how many people have covered that. I
> don't believe that it is identified as something that should be taught
> in the principles and concepts outline for the course.
>
> Neville Young
> ________________________________
>
> From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of
> syseng-request at edulists.com.au
> Sent: Fri 2/11/2007 9:14 AM
> To: syseng at edulists.com.au
> Subject: syseng Digest, Vol 29, Issue 2
>
>
>
> Send syseng mailing list submissions to
> syseng at edulists.com.au
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/syseng
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> syseng-request at edulists.com.au
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> syseng-owner at edulists.com.au
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of syseng digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. RE: RE: sysengDigest, Vol 28, Issue 12 Practice exam errors
> (Powell, Warren S)
> 2. RE: RE: sysengDigest, Vol 28, Issue 12 Practice exam errors
> (Roger Knight)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 20:30:24 +1100
> From: "Powell, Warren S" <powell.warren.s at edumail.vic.gov.au>
> Subject: RE: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] RE:
> sysengDigest, Vol 28, Issue 12 Practice exam errors
> To: "Systems and Engineering Teachers' Mailing List"
> <syseng at edulists.com.au>
> Message-ID:
>
> <6AFA6726AC32AC47934F5F2E4E9D22A316788A at edusm01.education.vic.gov.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Since the drum spins on an axis the wire will be winched at a constant
> speed. Only the length of cable will change from layer to layer due to
> the changing diameter not the speed.
>
> Regards,
>
> Warren Powell
> Bayside Secondary College
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Robert Minato
> Sent: Tue 30-Oct-07 4:41 PM
> To: syseng at edulists.com.au
> Subject: Re: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] RE:
> sysengDigest, Vol 28, Issue 12 Practice exam errors
>
>
>
> As the spool rotates and reels the winch wire in, speed will be
> constant
> until the winch wire fills the first layer. When the wire starts the
> second
> layer, the circumference will be longer (radius now increased by
> thickness
> of wire). Speed will change each subsequent layer and torque will
> reduce.
>
> The speed of the drum will not change; however, the speed at which the
> wire
> is hauled in (that's what the question is asking) will change for each
> layer.
>
> PS. It's nice to see some discussion on this list. Keep it up.
>
>
> Rob
> --
> Robert Minato
> Technology Leader
> Catholic College Wodonga
> 1 Bowman Crt
> Wodonga 3690
> 02 6043 5546
>
>
>
> On 30/10/07 2:05 PM, "Powell, Warren S"
> <powell.warren.s at edumail.vic.gov.au>
> wrote:
>
>> Paul,
>> I also have notified them of the wrong answers and have had no reply.
>> In regard to Q12 the speed will not change. Only the diameter of the
> drum will
>> change due to the cable coming and going. The drum is spinning on an
> axis
>> therefore the speed will not change. The torque might increase a
> little.
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Barton, Paul S
>> Sent: Tue 10/30/2007 8:46 AM
>> To: syseng at edulists.com.au
>> Subject: RE: syseng Digest, Vol 28, Issue 12 Practice exam errors
>>
>>
>> I have asked Lorraine Tran and Kristen Allen for an answer sheet to
> the
>> practice exam questions over 4 months ago, as I also found problems
> with the
>> practice exam. I agree with your findings on questions 6,7,11,
> question 9 I'll
>> defer to your Knowledge. I also asked about question 5 (subjective),
> Question
>> 3 (formula should be Force= pressure X area), section B q1,I found I
> needed 3
>> pads and q12 the speed would be the minimum as the drum diameter
> increases so
>> would the speed. I have also stated the correct vr ratio should be
> driven over
>> driver if we are to comply with industry standards.
>>
>> Paul Barton
>> Technology teacher
>> Dromana Secondary College
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of
>> syseng-request at edulists.com.au
>> Sent: Mon 10/29/2007 12:00 PM
>> To: syseng at edulists.com.au
>> Subject: syseng Digest, Vol 28, Issue 12
>>
>>
>>
>> Send syseng mailing list submissions to
>> syseng at edulists.com.au
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/syseng
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> syseng-request at edulists.com.au
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> syseng-owner at edulists.com.au
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of syseng digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Practice Exam errors (Robert Minato)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:43:06 +1000
>> From: Robert Minato <rminato at ccw.vic.edu.au>
>> Subject: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] Practice Exam
>> errors
>> To: "syseng at edulists.com.au" <syseng at edulists.com.au>
>> Message-ID: <7878124.6681193611395403.JavaMail.root at localhost>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>
>> Had a look at the new practice exam on the vcaa website. There are a
> few
>> problems with it:
>>
>> Section A
>> Q6. Symbol for a voltage reg is not on the vcaa symbols list.
> Responses A, B
>> and D all represent another component, so by default, Response C is
> left
>> which must be the correct answer.
>> Q7. 120 and 600 Ohm in parallel gives 100 Ohms. 12V/100Ohms = 120 mA.
> No
>> correct response.
>> Q11. Brown Green Yellow resistor is 150 kOhms. No correct response.
>>
>> Section B
>> Q9. The motor will only ever rotate in one direction. The back emf
> diode
>> will be forward biased in one switch position effectively shorting
> across
>> the motor. [Depending on the current supply and diode rating, the
> diode may
>> burn-out, in which case the motor will then work in the second
> direction.
>> Back emf diodes normally used when other components (eg transistor)
> are in
>> circuit to prevent damage.]
>>
>> Formula sheet
>> The resistor colour code needs a multiplier column. Unless a great
> deal of
>> time has been spent with the code, most students would nave some
> trouble
>> with the multiplier. Probably explains the confusion with Section A
> Q11.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>> --
>> Robert Minato
>> Technology Leader
>> Catholic College Wodonga
>> 1 Bowman Crt
>> Wodonga 3690
>> 02 6043 5546
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> syseng mailing list
>> syseng at edulists.com.au
>> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/syseng
>>
>>
>> End of syseng Digest, Vol 28, Issue 12
>> **************************************
>>
>>
>>
>> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
> received in
>> error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or
> using
>> attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any
> loss, damage
>> or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or
>> not,
>> resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files
> our
>> liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any
>> representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual
> sender, and
>> not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early
> Childhood
>> Development.
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au/>
> <http://www.edulists.com.au/> - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
> unsubscribe
>> Systems and Technology Mailing List kindly supported by
>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/systemseng/
>> systemsengindex.html
> -
>> Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
>> TEAV - Technology Education Association of Victoria
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au/>
> <http://www.edulists.com.au/> - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
> unsubscribe
> Systems and Technology Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/systemseng/
> systemsengindex.html -
> Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
> TEAV - Technology Education Association of Victoria
>
>
>
> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
> received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before
> opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects.
> Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the
> negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from
> the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying
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> those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 09:13:31 +1100
> From: "Roger Knight" <RKnight at stpats.vic.edu.au>
> Subject: RE: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] RE:
> sysengDigest, Vol 28, Issue 12 Practice exam errors
> To: "Systems and Engineering Teachers' Mailing List"
> <syseng at edulists.com.au>
> Message-ID:
>
> <EC8B0ED0F258A94498B697367C2913A2DE6EB9 at Shalimar.stpats.vic.edu.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> G'day all. I was just wondering how do we know when the winch wire
> fills
> the first layer without knowing the width of the drum? Could it be
> that
> the examiners are just looking for an approximate value based on the
> known values?
>
> Cheers ... Roger
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Powell, Warren S
> Sent: Thu 11/1/2007 8:30 PM
> To: Systems and Engineering Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] RE:
> sysengDigest, Vol 28, Issue 12 Practice exam errors
>
>
> Since the drum spins on an axis the wire will be winched at a constant
> speed. Only the length of cable will change from layer to layer due to
> the changing diameter not the speed.
>
> Regards,
>
> Warren Powell
> Bayside Secondary College
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Robert Minato
> Sent: Tue 30-Oct-07 4:41 PM
> To: syseng at edulists.com.au
> Subject: Re: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] RE:
> sysengDigest, Vol 28, Issue 12 Practice exam errors
>
>
>
> As the spool rotates and reels the winch wire in, speed will be
> constant
> until the winch wire fills the first layer. When the wire starts the
> second
> layer, the circumference will be longer (radius now increased by
> thickness
> of wire). Speed will change each subsequent layer and torque will
> reduce.
>
> The speed of the drum will not change; however, the speed at which the
> wire
> is hauled in (that's what the question is asking) will change for each
> layer.
>
> PS. It's nice to see some discussion on this list. Keep it up.
>
>
> Rob
> --
> Robert Minato
> Technology Leader
> Catholic College Wodonga
> 1 Bowman Crt
> Wodonga 3690
> 02 6043 5546
>
>
>
> On 30/10/07 2:05 PM, "Powell, Warren S"
> <powell.warren.s at edumail.vic.gov.au>
> wrote:
>
>> Paul,
>> I also have notified them of the wrong answers and have had no reply.
>> In regard to Q12 the speed will not change. Only the diameter of the
> drum will
>> change due to the cable coming and going. The drum is spinning on an
> axis
>> therefore the speed will not change. The torque might increase a
> little.
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Barton, Paul S
>> Sent: Tue 10/30/2007 8:46 AM
>> To: syseng at edulists.com.au
>> Subject: RE: syseng Digest, Vol 28, Issue 12 Practice exam errors
>>
>>
>> I have asked Lorraine Tran and Kristen Allen for an answer sheet to
> the
>> practice exam questions over 4 months ago, as I also found problems
> with the
>> practice exam. I agree with your findings on questions 6,7,11,
> question 9 I'll
>> defer to your Knowledge. I also asked about question 5 (subjective),
> Question
>> 3 (formula should be Force= pressure X area), section B q1,I found I
> needed 3
>> pads and q12 the speed would be the minimum as the drum diameter
> increases so
>> would the speed. I have also stated the correct vr ratio should be
> driven over
>> driver if we are to comply with industry standards.
>>
>> Paul Barton
>> Technology teacher
>> Dromana Secondary College
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of
>> syseng-request at edulists.com.au
>> Sent: Mon 10/29/2007 12:00 PM
>> To: syseng at edulists.com.au
>> Subject: syseng Digest, Vol 28, Issue 12
>>
>>
>>
>> Send syseng mailing list submissions to
>> syseng at edulists.com.au
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/syseng
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> syseng-request at edulists.com.au
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> syseng-owner at edulists.com.au
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of syseng digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Practice Exam errors (Robert Minato)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:43:06 +1000
>> From: Robert Minato <rminato at ccw.vic.edu.au>
>> Subject: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] Practice Exam
>> errors
>> To: "syseng at edulists.com.au" <syseng at edulists.com.au>
>> Message-ID: <7878124.6681193611395403.JavaMail.root at localhost>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>
>> Had a look at the new practice exam on the vcaa website. There are a
> few
>> problems with it:
>>
>> Section A
>> Q6. Symbol for a voltage reg is not on the vcaa symbols list.
> Responses A, B
>> and D all represent another component, so by default, Response C is
> left
>> which must be the correct answer.
>> Q7. 120 and 600 Ohm in parallel gives 100 Ohms. 12V/100Ohms = 120 mA.
> No
>> correct response.
>> Q11. Brown Green Yellow resistor is 150 kOhms. No correct response.
>>
>> Section B
>> Q9. The motor will only ever rotate in one direction. The back emf
> diode
>> will be forward biased in one switch position effectively shorting
> across
>> the motor. [Depending on the current supply and diode rating, the
> diode may
>> burn-out, in which case the motor will then work in the second
> direction.
>> Back emf diodes normally used when other components (eg transistor)
> are in
>> circuit to prevent damage.]
>>
>> Formula sheet
>> The resistor colour code needs a multiplier column. Unless a great
> deal of
>> time has been spent with the code, most students would nave some
> trouble
>> with the multiplier. Probably explains the confusion with Section A
> Q11.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>> --
>> Robert Minato
>> Technology Leader
>> Catholic College Wodonga
>> 1 Bowman Crt
>> Wodonga 3690
>> 02 6043 5546
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> syseng mailing list
>> syseng at edulists.com.au
>> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/syseng
>>
>>
>> End of syseng Digest, Vol 28, Issue 12
>> **************************************
>>
>>
>>
>> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
> received in
>> error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or
> using
>> attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any
> loss, damage
>> or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or
>> not,
>> resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files
> our
>> liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any
>> representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual
> sender, and
>> not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early
> Childhood
>> Development.
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au/>
> <http://www.edulists.com.au/> - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
> unsubscribe
>> Systems and Technology Mailing List kindly supported by
>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/systemseng/
>> systemsengindex.html
> -
>> Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
>> TEAV - Technology Education Association of Victoria
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au/>
> <http://www.edulists.com.au/> - FAQ, resources, subscribe,
> unsubscribe
> Systems and Technology Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/systemseng/
> systemsengindex.html -
> Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
> TEAV - Technology Education Association of Victoria
>
>
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>
> _______________________________________________
> syseng mailing list
> syseng at edulists.com.au
> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/syseng
>
>
> End of syseng Digest, Vol 29, Issue 2
> *************************************
>
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> Systems and Technology Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/systemseng/
> systemsengindex.html -
> Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
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>
> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
> received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before
> opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects.
> Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the
> negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly
> from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to
> resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or
> opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not
> necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood
> Development.
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> Systems and Technology Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/systemseng/
> systemsengindex.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> and
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