[Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] RE: syseng Digest,
Vol 29, Issue 2
Walker, Russell R
walker.russell.r at edumail.vic.gov.au
Thu Nov 8 12:53:24 EST 2007
Hi,
Can you tell me where you get a copy of the trial exam?
Thanks
Russell
Walker
-----Original Message-----
From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Alex Roujnikov
Sent: Friday, 2 November 2007 1:54 PM
To: Systems and Engineering Teachers' Mailing List;
syseng at edulists.com.au
Subject: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] RE: syseng
Digest,Vol 29, Issue 2
Thank you Neville,
I attach below my previous message in an attempt to stop the unfair
criticism and give a fair go for the next year.
Alex
Hi fellow SE teachers,
1. It was easy to pick up mistakes in trial Exam paper. My year 12
students found them and we discussed questions in class. It may sound
weird but errors stimulated our work and increased interest to the Exam
preparation. Paper is fresh and not dull. SE teachers were also alert
and interested in the discussion.
2. The trial Exam paper, published for the first time in this subject as
far as I know, is an excellent attempt to set a good standard, improve
the rating of the subject and stimulate discussion before the Exam. We
need to encourage those people who wrote it to publish more, may be with
some editorial work from SE teachers before final publication.
Thank you for the paper, good standard and very relevant to the subject
at last.
Regards, Alexandre Roujnikov,
Physics and SE teacher,
Penola Catholic College.
________________________________
From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Neville YOUNG
Sent: Fri 11/2/2007 12:10 PM
To: syseng at edulists.com.au
Subject: RE: syseng Digest, Vol 29, Issue 2
I think you guys are making things too hard. I believe that you are to
assume that the diameter of the winch will not change, you can then work
out how many metres/sec the wire is being that you can hauled in at.
(Otherwise why would it have - show all working at the end) If you
attended the session at the DATTA (then the TEAV) the errors in the
sample test were pointed out. Apparently a science teacher was
responsible for the writing the exam. The surprising thing is the
question on hydrogen fuel cells, how many people have covered that. I
don't believe that it is identified as something that should be taught
in the principles and concepts outline for the course.
Neville Young
________________________________
From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of
syseng-request at edulists.com.au
Sent: Fri 2/11/2007 9:14 AM
To: syseng at edulists.com.au
Subject: syseng Digest, Vol 29, Issue 2
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:
1. RE: RE: sysengDigest, Vol 28, Issue 12 Practice exam errors
(Powell, Warren S)
2. RE: RE: sysengDigest, Vol 28, Issue 12 Practice exam errors
(Roger Knight)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 20:30:24 +1100
From: "Powell, Warren S" <powell.warren.s at edumail.vic.gov.au>
Subject: RE: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] RE:
sysengDigest, Vol 28, Issue 12 Practice exam errors
To: "Systems and Engineering Teachers' Mailing List"
<syseng at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID:
<6AFA6726AC32AC47934F5F2E4E9D22A316788A at edusm01.education.vic.gov.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Since the drum spins on an axis the wire will be winched at a constant
speed. Only the length of cable will change from layer to layer due to
the changing diameter not the speed.
Regards,
Warren Powell
Bayside Secondary College
________________________________
From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Robert Minato
Sent: Tue 30-Oct-07 4:41 PM
To: syseng at edulists.com.au
Subject: Re: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] RE:
sysengDigest, Vol 28, Issue 12 Practice exam errors
As the spool rotates and reels the winch wire in, speed will be constant
until the winch wire fills the first layer. When the wire starts the
second
layer, the circumference will be longer (radius now increased by
thickness
of wire). Speed will change each subsequent layer and torque will
reduce.
The speed of the drum will not change; however, the speed at which the
wire
is hauled in (that's what the question is asking) will change for each
layer.
PS. It's nice to see some discussion on this list. Keep it up.
Rob
--
Robert Minato
Technology Leader
Catholic College Wodonga
1 Bowman Crt
Wodonga 3690
02 6043 5546
On 30/10/07 2:05 PM, "Powell, Warren S"
<powell.warren.s at edumail.vic.gov.au>
wrote:
> Paul,
> I also have notified them of the wrong answers and have had no reply.
> In regard to Q12 the speed will not change. Only the diameter of the
drum will
> change due to the cable coming and going. The drum is spinning on an
axis
> therefore the speed will not change. The torque might increase a
little.
> Hope this helps.
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Barton, Paul S
> Sent: Tue 10/30/2007 8:46 AM
> To: syseng at edulists.com.au
> Subject: RE: syseng Digest, Vol 28, Issue 12 Practice exam errors
>
>
> I have asked Lorraine Tran and Kristen Allen for an answer sheet to
the
> practice exam questions over 4 months ago, as I also found problems
with the
> practice exam. I agree with your findings on questions 6,7,11,
question 9 I'll
> defer to your Knowledge. I also asked about question 5 (subjective),
Question
> 3 (formula should be Force= pressure X area), section B q1,I found I
needed 3
> pads and q12 the speed would be the minimum as the drum diameter
increases so
> would the speed. I have also stated the correct vr ratio should be
driven over
> driver if we are to comply with industry standards.
>
> Paul Barton
> Technology teacher
> Dromana Secondary College
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of
> syseng-request at edulists.com.au
> Sent: Mon 10/29/2007 12:00 PM
> To: syseng at edulists.com.au
> Subject: syseng Digest, Vol 28, Issue 12
>
>
>
> Send syseng mailing list submissions to
> syseng at edulists.com.au
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/syseng
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> syseng-request at edulists.com.au
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> syseng-owner at edulists.com.au
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of syseng digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Practice Exam errors (Robert Minato)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:43:06 +1000
> From: Robert Minato <rminato at ccw.vic.edu.au>
> Subject: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] Practice Exam
> errors
> To: "syseng at edulists.com.au" <syseng at edulists.com.au>
> Message-ID: <7878124.6681193611395403.JavaMail.root at localhost>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Had a look at the new practice exam on the vcaa website. There are a
few
> problems with it:
>
> Section A
> Q6. Symbol for a voltage reg is not on the vcaa symbols list.
Responses A, B
> and D all represent another component, so by default, Response C is
left
> which must be the correct answer.
> Q7. 120 and 600 Ohm in parallel gives 100 Ohms. 12V/100Ohms = 120 mA.
No
> correct response.
> Q11. Brown Green Yellow resistor is 150 kOhms. No correct response.
>
> Section B
> Q9. The motor will only ever rotate in one direction. The back emf
diode
> will be forward biased in one switch position effectively shorting
across
> the motor. [Depending on the current supply and diode rating, the
diode may
> burn-out, in which case the motor will then work in the second
direction.
> Back emf diodes normally used when other components (eg transistor)
are in
> circuit to prevent damage.]
>
> Formula sheet
> The resistor colour code needs a multiplier column. Unless a great
deal of
> time has been spent with the code, most students would nave some
trouble
> with the multiplier. Probably explains the confusion with Section A
Q11.
>
> Rob
>
>
> --
> Robert Minato
> Technology Leader
> Catholic College Wodonga
> 1 Bowman Crt
> Wodonga 3690
> 02 6043 5546
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> syseng mailing list
> syseng at edulists.com.au
> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/syseng
>
>
> End of syseng Digest, Vol 28, Issue 12
> **************************************
>
>
>
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Systems and Technology Mailing List kindly supported by
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 09:13:31 +1100
From: "Roger Knight" <RKnight at stpats.vic.edu.au>
Subject: RE: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] RE:
sysengDigest, Vol 28, Issue 12 Practice exam errors
To: "Systems and Engineering Teachers' Mailing List"
<syseng at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID:
<EC8B0ED0F258A94498B697367C2913A2DE6EB9 at Shalimar.stpats.vic.edu.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
G'day all. I was just wondering how do we know when the winch wire fills
the first layer without knowing the width of the drum? Could it be that
the examiners are just looking for an approximate value based on the
known values?
Cheers ... Roger
________________________________
From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Powell, Warren S
Sent: Thu 11/1/2007 8:30 PM
To: Systems and Engineering Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: RE: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] RE:
sysengDigest, Vol 28, Issue 12 Practice exam errors
Since the drum spins on an axis the wire will be winched at a constant
speed. Only the length of cable will change from layer to layer due to
the changing diameter not the speed.
Regards,
Warren Powell
Bayside Secondary College
________________________________
From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Robert Minato
Sent: Tue 30-Oct-07 4:41 PM
To: syseng at edulists.com.au
Subject: Re: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] RE:
sysengDigest, Vol 28, Issue 12 Practice exam errors
As the spool rotates and reels the winch wire in, speed will be constant
until the winch wire fills the first layer. When the wire starts the
second
layer, the circumference will be longer (radius now increased by
thickness
of wire). Speed will change each subsequent layer and torque will
reduce.
The speed of the drum will not change; however, the speed at which the
wire
is hauled in (that's what the question is asking) will change for each
layer.
PS. It's nice to see some discussion on this list. Keep it up.
Rob
--
Robert Minato
Technology Leader
Catholic College Wodonga
1 Bowman Crt
Wodonga 3690
02 6043 5546
On 30/10/07 2:05 PM, "Powell, Warren S"
<powell.warren.s at edumail.vic.gov.au>
wrote:
> Paul,
> I also have notified them of the wrong answers and have had no reply.
> In regard to Q12 the speed will not change. Only the diameter of the
drum will
> change due to the cable coming and going. The drum is spinning on an
axis
> therefore the speed will not change. The torque might increase a
little.
> Hope this helps.
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Barton, Paul S
> Sent: Tue 10/30/2007 8:46 AM
> To: syseng at edulists.com.au
> Subject: RE: syseng Digest, Vol 28, Issue 12 Practice exam errors
>
>
> I have asked Lorraine Tran and Kristen Allen for an answer sheet to
the
> practice exam questions over 4 months ago, as I also found problems
with the
> practice exam. I agree with your findings on questions 6,7,11,
question 9 I'll
> defer to your Knowledge. I also asked about question 5 (subjective),
Question
> 3 (formula should be Force= pressure X area), section B q1,I found I
needed 3
> pads and q12 the speed would be the minimum as the drum diameter
increases so
> would the speed. I have also stated the correct vr ratio should be
driven over
> driver if we are to comply with industry standards.
>
> Paul Barton
> Technology teacher
> Dromana Secondary College
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of
> syseng-request at edulists.com.au
> Sent: Mon 10/29/2007 12:00 PM
> To: syseng at edulists.com.au
> Subject: syseng Digest, Vol 28, Issue 12
>
>
>
> Send syseng mailing list submissions to
> syseng at edulists.com.au
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/syseng
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> syseng-request at edulists.com.au
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> syseng-owner at edulists.com.au
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of syseng digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Practice Exam errors (Robert Minato)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:43:06 +1000
> From: Robert Minato <rminato at ccw.vic.edu.au>
> Subject: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] Practice Exam
> errors
> To: "syseng at edulists.com.au" <syseng at edulists.com.au>
> Message-ID: <7878124.6681193611395403.JavaMail.root at localhost>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Had a look at the new practice exam on the vcaa website. There are a
few
> problems with it:
>
> Section A
> Q6. Symbol for a voltage reg is not on the vcaa symbols list.
Responses A, B
> and D all represent another component, so by default, Response C is
left
> which must be the correct answer.
> Q7. 120 and 600 Ohm in parallel gives 100 Ohms. 12V/100Ohms = 120 mA.
No
> correct response.
> Q11. Brown Green Yellow resistor is 150 kOhms. No correct response.
>
> Section B
> Q9. The motor will only ever rotate in one direction. The back emf
diode
> will be forward biased in one switch position effectively shorting
across
> the motor. [Depending on the current supply and diode rating, the
diode may
> burn-out, in which case the motor will then work in the second
direction.
> Back emf diodes normally used when other components (eg transistor)
are in
> circuit to prevent damage.]
>
> Formula sheet
> The resistor colour code needs a multiplier column. Unless a great
deal of
> time has been spent with the code, most students would nave some
trouble
> with the multiplier. Probably explains the confusion with Section A
Q11.
>
> Rob
>
>
> --
> Robert Minato
> Technology Leader
> Catholic College Wodonga
> 1 Bowman Crt
> Wodonga 3690
> 02 6043 5546
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> syseng mailing list
> syseng at edulists.com.au
> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/syseng
>
>
> End of syseng Digest, Vol 28, Issue 12
> **************************************
>
>
>
> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
received in
> error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or
using
> attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any
loss, damage
> or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not,
> resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files
our
> liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any
> representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual
sender, and
> not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early
Childhood
> Development.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au/>
<http://www.edulists.com.au/> - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> Systems and Technology Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/systemseng/systemsengindex.html
-
> Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
> TEAV - Technology Education Association of Victoria
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au/>
<http://www.edulists.com.au/> - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
Systems and Technology Mailing List kindly supported by
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Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
TEAV - Technology Education Association of Victoria
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Systems and Technology Mailing List kindly supported by
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Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
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