[Year 12 SofDev] sorting criteria My thoughts

Tue Jun 21 07:54:17 AEST 2016

My understanding is that the only time complexity is involved is for the sorting algorithm. For everything else it is about what is appropriate for the solution. That been said if the language you use has any inbuilt complex sorting function there is nothing stopping your students from using it and meeting the complexity requirements for sorting algorithms as long as the document the reason why they are using it.

Cheers,

Ben Baas
-Alkira Secondary College

From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of brett fitzsimmons
Sent: Monday, 20 June 2016 11:08 PM
To: 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List' <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] sorting criteria My thoughts

Hi all,

An interesting and informative session today.

I'm still confused as to where the term "complex" fits in as part of a solution. Shouldn't it be efficient, effective and appropriate? We could make anything more complex but why should marks be awarded for something that is totally artificial such as sorting arrays of 16 items? Perhaps this would have been better approached as a key skill in Outcome 1. If you teach students how to code a "complex" sorting algorithm and the complexity, I'm guessing refers to how complex it is to code, then won't each student use the same approach as I certainly wouldn't expect them to reinvent the wheel and the tyre?

We are asked to use features of an OO language so where do we draw the line?

There is also the question of data structures and complexity. Does a C# Dictionary count as a complex data structure? They are pretty much O(1) for searching and far easier to use than arrays in many instances.

Regards

Brett Fitzsimmons

From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Croke, Daryl D
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 10:07 PM
To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] sorting criteria My thoughts

Hi all

Andrew
"I used Hungarian dances to teach sorting", I thought WTF then i found this great playlist on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdIKIf9mHk0&list=PLOmdoKois7_FK-ySGwHBkltzB11snW7KQ

Andrew
"The young people found that for most of them the actual getting up and moving around was a good idea"

I will try this in Craigieburn it could be bravest thing I've done since getting students at Preston Girls to act out a While Loop :)

Cheers

Daryl Croke

Mount Ridley College
8338 3600
http://mountridleycollege.vic.edu.au/

keep on coding
http://geekstuff.global2.vic.edu.au/
http://physicalcomputing.global2.vic.edu.au/

________________________________
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au> [sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] on behalf of Andrew Shortell [shortell at get2me.net]
Sent: Monday, 20 June 2016 5:26 PM
To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] sorting criteria My thoughts
Hi All
been thinking a lot about today's PD at coburg

our table discussed the below - are we too harsh, too easy, or in the goldilocks zone?

in the criteria the students have to document and use a complex sort to obtain a 9 or 10

so the documentation can be the internal doc because very few companies produce a "Tech Ref Guide" they just put stuff on their website and let google etc find it

so what is a complex sort

perhaps start at the other end
to get 1 or 2 they should be able to use the built in sort function (properly and put internal doc about it)

to get 3 or 4  maybe a bubble sort  (I taught it because it is so simple and not too hard to get them to understand it)

to get 5 or 6 maybe a selection sort - documented

to get 7 or 8 a quick sort

to get 9 or 10 they need to display deeper knowledge
such as a quick sort is NOT efficient when the sublist size drops below about fifteen so at that point need to do selection (or insertion) sort

in visual studio the sort method uses quick-sort to a sublist of 16 then selection sort according to MSDN

So the sort method in VB is very complex - but using it is so simple
but I want to see that they can code ...

I used Hungarian dances to teach sorting - even getting students on their feet and "dancing" around ( I cannot remember for sure who found them on youtube originally [was it Mystery Mark? ] but thanks)

The young people found that for most of them the actual getting up and moving around was a good idea
It is also a great way to teach linked lists - not a lot of dancing but my students realised how little movement there is in a linked list!

more thoughts as they surface

Andrew

Andrew Shortell
Educator
CRC Melton

shortell at get2me.net<redir.aspx?REF=16_hgPM4hV12-RPj-vCKD6EJlfNOthQQ2teclkGfp1nUrCi-ApnTCAFtYWlsdG86c2hvcnRlbGxAZ2V0Mm1lLm5ldA..> (This List)
@acsbear8 (twitter)

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