[Year 12 SofDev] DFDs
Kevork KROZIAN
kkrozian at ringwoodsc.vic.edu.au
Tue Feb 26 10:12:41 EST 2013
Hi James,
I actually thought we agreed but the scenario is the key as you say. What about if we give the customer a mobile device ( delivered by the waiter ) to enter their orders directly ??
I actually used this version of the ordering system for a few of my SACs last year to see if the students could pick up this subtlety.
I think a really solid PD session on UCDs, Context and DFDs would be extremely worthwhile. Paging VITTA ........
Some time ago when Project management came on the scene we had a number of sessions from lecturers at RMIT from memory that worked well. It worked so well that I recall we picked up an error in the notes distributed by the end of session so great had our expertise become :) The lecturer was mildly amused claiming there is a smart aleck in every group .
The shame from my working home here is that we have not a single VCE IT class this year so I won't see these diagrams in the classroom until at least 2015 unless we get a group who decide to leapfrog over Yr 11 and suddenly appear as a Year 12 SD class.
Good luck to all teaching it this year
Take Care
Kevork Krozian
IT Pathways Manager
Ringwood Trade Training Facility
Tel: 0419 356 034
-----Original Message-----
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Vella, James
Sent: Tuesday, 26 February 2013 9:32 AM
To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] DFDs
Hi guys
Point conceded....one of the hardest parts in working with these diagrams is the subjective nature of interpretation. The level of complexity that is seen in Kevork's example would be seen in a Level 2 or 3 DFD...not required in a Level 0 (Context Diagram) or Level 1 Diagram (DFDs)
In regards to the text that I'm using, it's probably only available (if at all) from LaTrobe as it was a bound collection of lectures and workshops that were part of a subject titled Software Design Techniques a number of years ago.
Regards
Mr James Vella
MacKillop College
-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 9:17 AM
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: DFDs (Mark)
2. Re: DFDs (Kent Beveridge)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 08:39:49 +1100
From: Mark <mark at vceit.com>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] DFDs
To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
<sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID:
<CACu=8Z1JtTerqSTibQGaLoJp7=f9V5p5theXrTCbRyUmDnvdWw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Thanks, Kevork. One learns something new every day!
I wouldn't introduce this complexity to our kids' DFDs and UCDs, however.
Cheers
Mark
On 25 February 2013 13:24, Kevork KROZIAN <kkrozian at ringwoodsc.vic.edu.au>wrote:
> Hi James,
>
>
>
> I just opened *Use Cases Requirements in Context* by Daryl Kulak and
> Eamonn Guiney and p 39 states:
>
> ? It is often hard to decide which actors to show on a use case diagram.
> For example,, when a supplier provides an invoice to a company clerk
> and the clerk enters the invoice into the system, should the supplier
> be included in the diagram ? If the supplier is shown it is called a *
> secondary* actor. Our rule is that the supplier should be shown in the
> diagram if the supplier?s behaviour impacts the system in any way. For
> example, if a supplier sends a shipment late and that changes how the
> system reacts, then the supplier should be in the diagram.?
>
>
>
> In a restaurant a waiter can?t interact with the ordering system until
> the customer places the order. A delay does not change the response
> from the system. The waiter would appear in the UCD but not the DFD
> which would show the customer ? the supplier or source of the data or
> the order. I wouldn?t place the waiter in the DFD as they are not the source of the data.
>
>
>
> Perhaps you can offer details of your textbook if anyone wants to get
> a hold of it .
>
>
>
> Just my take on the discussion
>
>
>
> Kind Regards
>
>
>
> Kevork Krozian
>
> IT Pathways Manager
>
> Ringwood Trade Training Facility
>
> Tel: 0419 356 034
>
>
>
> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:
> sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Vella, James
> *Sent:* Monday, 25 February 2013 10:56 AM
> *To:* sofdev at edulists.com.au
> *Subject:* Re: [Year 12 SofDev] DFDs
>
>
>
> Strictly speaking as someone who did DFDs at uni?
>
>
>
> As Mark has said, we sometimes think in a human sense however DFDs
> don?t allow us to see the interactions between two EEs.
>
>
>
> As Selina has said, the waiter is just the input method ? so we can
> leave it out. I think our students sometimes find it hard at this
> stage where they have to decide what should and shouldn?t be included in our DFDs.
>
>
>
> In terms of the DFD, you could argue either way for one or the
> other?.but NOT BOTH! J
>
>
>
> That being said, in the UCD you can list both as actors because they
> both have roles in the system.
>
>
>
> I have a whole text book on this stuff from my 2nd year at LaTrobe
> which I?m using with my kids at the moment?DFDs, UCDs, UML the whole
> kit and caboodle!
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Mr James Vella
>
> MacKillop College
>
>
>
> <snip>
>
Mark Kelly
mark at vceit.com
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 22:16:39 +0000
From: Kent Beveridge <kbeveridge at stbc.vic.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] DFDs
To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
<sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID: <454BC374-60F3-4D9C-AF8F-C0A1AA1779AC at stbc.vic.edu.au>
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I also find that by using google images and searching for DFD's, this also yields some excellent learning and teaching tools. Perhaps as I have small class size it's easier that way?
Kent.
Kent Beveridge
ICT Coordinator & Maths teacher
On 26/02/2013, at 8:53 AM, "Mark" <mark at vceit.com<mailto:mark at vceit.com>> wrote:
Thanks, Kevork. One learns something new every day!
I wouldn't introduce this complexity to our kids' DFDs and UCDs, however.
Cheers
Mark
On 25 February 2013 13:24, Kevork KROZIAN <kkrozian at ringwoodsc.vic.edu.au<mailto:kkrozian at ringwoodsc.vic.edu.au>> wrote:
Hi James,
I just opened Use Cases Requirements in Context by Daryl Kulak and Eamonn Guiney and p 39 states:
? It is often hard to decide which actors to show on a use case diagram. For example,, when a supplier provides an invoice to a company clerk and the clerk enters the invoice into the system, should the supplier be included in the diagram ? If the supplier is shown it is called a secondary actor. Our rule is that the supplier should be shown in the diagram if the supplier?s behaviour impacts the system in any way. For example, if a supplier sends a shipment late and that changes how the system reacts, then the supplier should be in the diagram.?
In a restaurant a waiter can?t interact with the ordering system until the customer places the order. A delay does not change the response from the system. The waiter would appear in the UCD but not the DFD which would show the customer ? the supplier or source of the data or the order. I wouldn?t place the waiter in the DFD as they are not the source of the data.
Perhaps you can offer details of your textbook if anyone wants to get a hold of it .
Just my take on the discussion
Kind Regards
Kevork Krozian
IT Pathways Manager
Ringwood Trade Training Facility
Tel: 0419 356 034
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au>] On Behalf Of Vella, James
Sent: Monday, 25 February 2013 10:56 AM
To: sofdev at edulists.com.au<mailto:sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] DFDs
Strictly speaking as someone who did DFDs at uni?
As Mark has said, we sometimes think in a human sense however DFDs don?t allow us to see the interactions between two EEs.
As Selina has said, the waiter is just the input method ? so we can leave it out. I think our students sometimes find it hard at this stage where they have to decide what should and shouldn?t be included in our DFDs.
In terms of the DFD, you could argue either way for one or the other?.but NOT BOTH! :)
That being said, in the UCD you can list both as actors because they both have roles in the system.
I have a whole text book on this stuff from my 2nd year at LaTrobe which I?m using with my kids at the moment?DFDs, UCDs, UML the whole kit and caboodle!
Regards
Mr James Vella
MacKillop College
<snip>
Mark Kelly
mark at vceit.com<mailto:mark at vceit.com>
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