[Year 12 SofDev] programming languages advice for 2011

Fri Aug 6 10:08:16 EST 2010

Hi Mark,

 I think there is an attempt to "invite" use of OOP with the statement :

The purpose-designed solutions will entail the use of objects, methods and their properties, and event-driven programming.

Does that mean user created objects which requires a class definition  ? Does it mean inheritance is mandated or optional ?
Does it mean inbuilt objects are sufficient such as the earlier example of textboxes which have methods ( addText or getText  or similar ) and properties ( position, size, height , width etc )

I think the intention is to allow freedom for those who want to teach user built classes, objects and inheritance but not force those who can't or don't want to.

For a number of years I have expressed frustration that for those teachers who do, for example, teach OOP taking the statement above as it should be are not recognised and students not rewarded.
We need more prescriptive guidelines for the content, currency and methodology of the programming tasks.

As a benefit of this we will not have to use blunt instruments like " no databases" or no other languages like SQL .

Kind Regards

Kevork Krozian
Digital Learning Manager
Forest Hill College
k.krozian at fhc.vic.edu.au<mailto:k.krozian at fhc.vic.edu.au>
Tel: 0419 356 034
________________________________
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au [sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark KELLY [kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au]
Sent: Friday, 6 August 2010 8:34 AM
To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] programming languages advice for 2011

It's similar to the ITA course where the use of a relational DBMS is mandated, but there is no mention that the databases created by students need to be relational.

Mandating an OOP is rather pointless unless the use of OOP's distinguishing features is also required; and - as has been mentioned - the chances of my typical cohort getting anywhere near inheritance in one VCE year is near-zero,

On 5 August 2010 19:47, Kevork Krozian <K.Krozian at fhc.vic.edu.au<mailto:K.Krozian at fhc.vic.edu.au>> wrote:
Hi Mike,

 Great question.  I think it is possible to teach OOP with inheritance at one level . However, as exams have never had any questions beyond 3GL ( selection, looping and sequence – will that change for the next study design ? ) one has to wonder about the benefit of taking students to a level of using classes, objects and inheritance. The simple use of objects can be as rudimentary as reusing pre existing objects  ( text box, label, etc ) and changing the properties of these. That is why I believe we need to state in more detail what a program is expected to do for each programming SAC.
 It is one thing mandating only use of true object oriented  languages, quite another what you do with it. Eg. Use of OOP languages with use of wizards or as a 3GL language may satisfy the language selection, but how does it stack up for either programming depth of knowledge or currency of programming methodology ?

I too would be curious as to what proportion of our colleagues use “real” OOP in their teaching and assessment.

Kind Regards
Kevork

From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au>] On Behalf Of Mike Brookes
Sent: Thursday, 5 August 2010 7:06 PM
To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List

Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] programming languages advice for 2011

Hi all,
Just to play devil's advocate here, whilst VB6 is technically not a complete OOL in that it does not directly support inheritance, it does cover all the criteria listed below.
You can define new classes and create instances of same.
Out of sheer scientific curiosity, how many of you using "real" OOLs get into classes and inheritance given that many of our SD students have no previous  programming skills/knowledge?

Mike Brookes
chief cook and bottlewasher Copperfield college

On 5/08/2010 3:16 PM, Adrian Janson wrote:
Hi Leanne,

VB6.0 is not a true object orientated programming language and so it is no longer acceptable.  However, I think you will find that the move to VB.Net is not a difficult one and much of the code is very similar.

Cheers,
Adrian

Adrian Janson B.Sc, Dip.Ed, M.Ed
Director of ICT
Melbourne High School, Forrest Hill, South Yarra, Victoria 3141 Australia.
Phone: 03 9826 0711 International: +61 3 9826 0711
Fax: 03 9826 8767 International: +61 3 9826 8767
E-mail: janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au<http://janson.adrian.a@edumail.vic.gov.au>
Website: http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au<http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au/>
Blog: http://jansona.edublogs.org<http://jansona.edublogs.org/>

From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Leanne Wright
Sent: Thursday, 5 August 2010 2:39 PM
To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' M List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] programming languages advice for 2011

Does this mean that Visual Basic 6 is no longer acceptable. Leanne Wright

________________________________
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 17:11:04 +1000
From: iaquinto at ozemail.com.au<mailto:iaquinto at ozemail.com.au>
To: sofdev at edulists.com.au<mailto:sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] programming languages advice for 2011

Folks

To reply to several messages I have just received privately, this advice is from the VCAA website. Kindly note that Paula posted it here but many of you may have been on holiday when it came out.

Some languages have been removed from the list. One exciting addition is Objective-C which is for apps on the iPhone. Additionally, there is advice about database programming. This has been removed from the 2011 study design. All languages must be Object-Oriented.

Perhaps Adrian or someone from VITTA will post some news about 'Gearing up for SD in 2011' to inform us of the changes to the Study Design.

Kevork recently posted info about the use of C# with respect to Study Design 2011. Several teachers attended that workshop.

Maggie
--
Approved programming languages for the accredited study in 2011
Students will use one programming language from the accompanying list, to develop purpose-designed solutions. In the development of solutions, students should be able to:

 *   develop a graphical user interface (GUI), for use in mobile computing devices, such as laptops, personal digital assistants, gaming consoles, mobile phones
 *   construct and use data structures, for example multi-dimensional arrays, records, queues and stacks
 *   design, construct and use files (not databases) to store and retrieve data
 *   design and apply data validation techniques
 *   use program control structures: selection, iteration and sequencing.
The purpose-designed solutions will entail the use of objects, methods and their properties, and event-driven programming.
List of approved languages
Basic (object-oriented variations only, e.g. VB.NET<http://VB.NET>)
C++
C#
Objective-C
Pascal (object-oriented variations only, e.g. Delphi)
Java
Perl
PHP
Python
Ruby
With all of the above languages, databases are not to be used to support the construction of solutions. Students should be able to demonstrate the highest level of achievement using only the selected programming language. Additional languages can be used to embellish a solution, for example JavaScript with web pages; however, these would be supplementary to the main language and not replace it.
Specific distributions, projects or variations of languages may be suitable as long as they are able to address the criteria listed above, including, but not limited to, an object-oriented programming capability with graphical user interface features and file handling. Since it is impractical to itemise each of these language variations, the VCAA recommends teachers firstly consider a language from the approved list.
Teachers of VCE Software Development should note that the list of approved programming languages is revised each year and is published annually in the VCAA Bulletin VCE, VCAL and VET.

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