[Year 12 SofDev] RE: sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 17
Mark Kelly
kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
Thu Mar 6 17:14:33 EST 2008
I have a BA in English and Psych - does that count?
It would be really helpful to know what PD audiences really wanted to
hear. Perhaps VITTA could pre-test people signing up for PD to find
what 'favour' they want the PD to be. e.g. "Networking facts" vs "How
to teach networking".
I remember at the start of the 2003 study design I suggested to VITTA
that teachers needed to be taught networking theory rather than how to
teach networking to kids, and it was a big hit.
Without the knowledge of what an audience really wants to hear, I often
have to guess and try to cover 3 areas of interest in one long, fast
presentation, hoping to satisfy everyone at least part of the time*.
Even teacher PD is a mixed ability classroom :-)
Mark
* the story of my love life :-(
Kevork Krozian wrote:
> Hi Theresa,
>
> Thanks for your honesty in stating it is ok to admit not to know the
> technical stuff and this from someone with an info systems degree. Do all
> our SD teachers have a degree in the area ?
> And if you are not comfortable with the technical stuff - do I understand
> VPN, client server, WAN technologies, and more here? -- then how many
> more without quals feel even less comfortable ?
> I concur with your sentiments about the breaking down of the study design
> with little specificity being of little value. Yes, the VITTA CD has gone
> a long way to addressing the lack of specific sample work but there have
> been some quality assurance issues related to this.
> Futhermore, there is no point in everyone doing the same VITTA sample
> SAC from the CD. It is just repeating the problem using a different
> source.
>
> Keep well
>
>
> Kevork Krozian
> Mailing List Administrator
> kevork at edulists.com.au
> www.edulists.com.au
>
>
>
>
>
>> In regards to the present topic, I have a degree in Information systems
>> and am confident with teaching the theory of Systems analysis and
>> design, but feel nervous with some of the technical stuff because it has
>> changed so much in the past five years since I last taught IS so I
>> signed up to the recent VITTA workshops. I was dissapointed with the
>> workshops, which basically did no more than break down the Study design,
>> something I can do myself. I feel that some more specific PD for
>> networking, modelling and even programming - like building programs for
>> portable devices would really be more helpful.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Theresa Gate
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of
>> sofdev-request at edulists.com.au
>> Sent: Thursday, 6 March 2008 11:42 AM
>> To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
>> Subject: sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 17
>>
>> Send sofdev mailing list submissions to
>> sofdev at edulists.com.au
>>
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>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
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>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Why aren't teachers able to write their own material ?
>> (Kevork Krozian)
>> 2. Re: Copyright / authorship / solutions / ?? (Mark Kelly)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:32:07 +1100
>> From: "Kevork Krozian" <Kroset at novell1.fhc.vic.edu.au>
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Why aren't teachers able to write their
>> own material ?
>> To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
>> <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
>> Message-ID: <47CFD635.EE3E.0095.0 at novell1.fhc.vic.edu.au>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15
>>
>> Hi Adrian and Mark,
>>
>> Very good points but more broadly a symptom of a wider problem we
>> keep avoiding.
>> If teachers are not confident about assessing a topic ( to say nothing
>> about teaching it effectively ) then we need to address this issue.
>> I know we are all overworked but if we are teaching a class we need to
>> be fair to the students and ourselves.
>>
>> In reality if you are not an active network manager or Cisco
>> instructor, you would struggle to understand networks and maybe not know
>> a bus network even if you were run over by one.
>>
>> I know VITTA and the VCAA almost do miracles ( not least in their
>> active and meaningful support of Edulists and PD ) but why are teachers
>> unable to write their own SACs with confidence and conviction and with
>> solutions they can show others ?
>>
>> I would say because the training and the need for new and current
>> training has not kept up with the demands of the course(s). What do we
>> do about this ?
>>
>> I think we need to stop patching these problems with band aids and need
>> to go up the tree (DEECD, the new Rudd govt. initiative or wherever else
>> we need to go) where there is decent and proper funding to deliver
>> updated courses and training rather than doing it on the cheap.
>>
>> I don't want to drag down decent hardworking teachers doing the best
>> they can with what little they have - I want to lift them .
>>
>>
>> Just my thoughts
>>
>>
>> Kevork
>>
>>
>>>>> Mark Kelly <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au> 6/03/2008 8:28 am >>>
>> Good points there, Adrian. I have a gut feeling that people feel rather
>>
>> more intimidated writing SD outcomes than they do ITA. It's that much
>>
>> more complex.
>>
>> In a similar vein, I've just finished writing a commercial practice SD
>>
>> exam and it took much more thinking than the equivalent ITA exam.
>>
>> Adrian Janson wrote:
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is a potentially tricky issue - and as one who often posts his
>> SAC
>>> and theory materials to the lists - one that I must confess is a bit
>> of
>>> a concern.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Speaking personally, when I post my materials to the lists - I would
>>> like to think that those who are making use of them do so in the
>> spirit
>>> in which they have been posted - giving credit where it is due and
>> not
>>> altering things with a view to reposting them. I think the part of
>> this
>>> that is the most worrying is that some material did find its way back
>> to
>>> me which I had originally authored and posted to the lists - but with
>>> another teachers name on it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It may well just need to be the case that when we post materials to
>> the
>>> lists, we need to state (in the document as well as in the attached
>>> email), that the materials are free to use but may not be adapted or
>>> changed in any way without the permission of the author*. As I put
>> the
>>> finishing touches on my 2008 SAC1 - I may well do this before I post
>> it
>>> to the list? I would be interested to know what others think of
>> this?
>>>
>>>
>>> On another note - something which has been bothering me a great
>> deal.
>>>
>>>
>>> After the review process took place last year and schools had the
>> SACs
>>> and Assessments checked by VCAA - it became apparent that a large
>> number
>>> of the sampled schools had used my SACs (more than half). Of the
>>> remaining schools, many had used the VITTA SACs. After posting the
>> SACs
>>> to the lists, I had many requests for solutions which I tried to
>> provide
>>> as best I could. I don*t mind doing this - however, I think this
>> seems
>>> to suggest that there are few SD teachers creating their own original
>>> materials and/or solutions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Now - I don*t mind doing the work and posting it for everyone to
>> use. I
>>> think doing this is especially valuable to those starting out with
>> the
>>> SD course or with programming in general. However, if you are
>> familiar
>>> with the SD course - I think that you could be doing your own
>> students a
>>> disservice by not writing your own materials and solutions (and hence
>>> becoming more familiar with the assessment criteria and the structure
>> of
>>> the course). In such a circumstance, I think it would be more
>>> appropriate for you to use my SAC materials (or any others that are
>>> posted) for practice SAC materials and / or inspiration for your own.
>>> There is no way I can prevent teachers from simply using my own (or
>>> others) work as a method of minimising their own workload - however,
>> I
>>> would implore those engaging in this practice to think of the bigger
>>> picture.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Adrian Janson
>>>
>>> VITTA President
>>>
>>> Director of ICT, Melbourne High School
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Poultney,
>> Gordon A
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 5 March 2008 12:13 PM
>>> *To:* Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We are talking about a 2 page SAC here, not the latest from Neal
>>> Stephenson...
>>>
>>> Feel free to do what you want with Shagadelic - just don't put my
>> name
>>> on it if you change it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you believe in copyright/credit , then Ross' simple attribution
>>> scheme looks good.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> gordon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------
>>>
>>> Gordon Poultney
>>>
>>> Horsham College
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Stephen Digby
>>> *Sent:* Wed 5/3/08 11:31
>>> *To:* 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
>>> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>
>>> What about a simpler attribution such as
>>>
>>> Freds Carpet House v6 "Based on SAC by Mark Kelly 2007. Alterations
>> by
>>> Stephen Digby 2008, Gordon Poultney 2008"
>>>
>>> Just as the ridiculous copyright laws reduce the likelihood of
>> attribution
>>> (less likely to get caught for copyright violation if you remove all
>> info
>>> re. source).
>>>
>>> A overly complex attribution process may reduce the likelihood of
>> sharing.
>>> As it is, most resources that I have are not able to be shared
>> because of
>>> copyright (i.e. they are not mine to share)
>>>
>>> Lets develop a 'creative common' approach to as much materials as
>>> possible....
>>>
>>> ====================================================
>>> Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager
>>> mailto: digby.stephen.p at edumail.vic.gov.au
>>> Cheltenham Secondary College www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au
>>> Ph: 613 955 55 955 Fx: 9555 8617 Mb: 0431-701-028
>>> ====================================================
>>>
>>> I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat. Winston
>>> Churchill
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
>>> On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 10:15 AM
>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List; Year 12 IT
>>> Applications Teachers' Mailing List; Year 11 Information Technology
>>> Teachers' Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>
>>> (I've X-posted to the ITA and year 11 IT lists. Apols in advance.)
>>>
>>> I see an interesting and potentially worrying point developing here.
>>>
>>> If we adapt other people's tasks, I think we are obliged to retain
>> the
>>> version information contained in the task and note ourselves as
>> modifiers
>>> and let that info stay with the document in its further travels.
>>>
>>> I know I would be horrified if a task I created was later 'improved'
>> by some
>>> anonymous person, thereby damaging it or (even worse) rendering it a
>>> violation of VCAA rules - with my name still proudly stuck on it as
>> if I
>>> were solely responsible for its current condition!
>>>
>>> When we distribute 'adapted' tasks, I recommend that we:
>>>
>>> 1. Of course, retain the original author's identity and document
>> version
>>> number, if they are in the document. Give the poor authors credit
>> for their
>>> labours!
>>>
>>> 2. Add yourself to the credits as a 'modifier'.
>>>
>>> 3. Maybe even summarise your changes (and reasons?) in an addendum at
>> the
>>> end of the document. This addendum can be removed for printing
>> purposes by
>>> people who use it later, but it otherwise travels with the document
>> as it
>>> morphs through the ether.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> Poultney, Gordon A wrote:
>>>> i made up the original 'Shagadelic' which sounds like it has
>> morphed
>>> into something else. There is only 1 network diagram in the original
>> - for
>>> the new system .there is/was a marking scheme and complete network
>> diagram
>>> for the teacher too.
>>>> cheers Gordon
>>>>
>>>> ----------------
>>>> Gordon Poultney
>>>> Horsham College
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Maggie Iaquinto
>>>> Sent: Wed 5/3/08 9:14
>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ross
>>>>
>>>> Ross
>>>>
>>>> If you were using this practice SAC as the actual one, it would be
>>>> difficult to separate the marks for Task 1 (systems analysis and
>>>> design
>>>> - mistakenly called Task 2 here) from Task 2 (network diagram).
>> You
>>>> are required to report the marks for the tasks clearly and
>> discretely.
>>>> Task 1 is 40 marks and Task 2 is 10 marks -- based on 50 for the
>>>> Outcome.
>>>> In the assessment sheet nearly 25 marks of the 50 are devoted to
>> the
>>>> network diagram. This makes it tough to report accurately to VCAA
>> just
>>>> what your students have received, in terms of the balance of
>> 40/10.
>>>> Task 2 (network diagram) must be for the proposed new system and
>> this
>>>> document requires the student to diagram the current and the new.
>>>> Sure, you can do that but it isn't necessary.
>>>>
>>>> I notice also that there are marks given to presentation of the
>> report.
>>>> IMHO I would put those marks into a more finely-grained assessment
>> of
>>>> all the other Key Skills required in this Outcome.
>>>>
>>>> Just an opinion.
>>>>
>>>> Maggie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 8:36 AM
>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>
>>>> If the task extended across the holidays, make sure the remaining
>> part
>>>> is not given to them beforehand so they can't pre-produce stuff.
>>>>
>>>> Claudia Graham wrote:
>>>>> Hi Ross,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Re the practice SAC not sure who's that is so can't help there
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding the use of the internet not something I have done or
>> would
>>>> do,
>>>>> for me it would be too hard to 'patrol'. But as long as all
>> students
>>>>> have the same conditions it doesn't matter (mind you I don't have
>> a
>>>>> study design or assessment hand book beside me to check re
>>>>> conditions)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Same for the time frame, I assume you mean a lesson or two prior
>> to
>>>> the
>>>>> holidays and then some after (or similar), not something I would
>> do
>>>> just
>>>>> for authentication purposes. I would do it all in a few lessons;
>> I
>>>> don't
>>>>> even like weekends between assessment lessons if I can help it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Claudia Graham
>>>>>
>>>>> Overnewton College
>>>>>
>>>>> Keilor
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> --
>>>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Ogilvie,
>> Ross
>>>>> A
>>>>> *Sent:* 4 March 2008 7:50 PM
>>>>> *To:* sofdev at edulists.com.au
>>>>> *Subject:* Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In regard to SD I have a couple of questions.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. I have given my class a **Practice SAC** called **Shagadelic
>>>>> Carpets** (refer to attachment) (hope the author is OK with
>> this).
>>>>> My
>>>>> question is....does anyone have the solutions so I can check if I
>> am
>>>> on
>>>>> the right track.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. When I give my students the actual SAC:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> i. Can/should they access the internet.
>>>>>
>>>>> ii. Would there be a problem (in Vic) if the SAC extended
>> through
>>>> the
>>>>> Term One holiday period into Term Two.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Kindest Regards
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **Ross Ogilvie **
>>>>>
>>>>> **LSF ICT Leader **
>>>>>
>>>>> **Sunbury**** College**
>>>>>
>>>>> **30 Racecourse Rd****, Sunbury 3429**
>>>>>
>>>>> **Ph (W) 9744 1066 **
>>>>>
>>>>> ** (H) 54272843**
>>>>>
>>>>> **Bookmarks: http://del.icio.us/Ross1956**
>>>>>
>>>>> **Wiki: http://ross1956.wikispaces.com/**
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>> --
>>>> Mark Kelly
>>> --
>>> Mark Kelly
>> --
>> Mark Kelly
>> Manager - Information Systems
>> McKinnon Secondary College
>> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia Direct line / Voicemail:
>> 8520 9085 School Phone +613 8520 9000 School Fax +613 95789253 kel AT
>> mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>
>> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au IT Lecture notes:
>> http://vceit.com
>> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
>>
>> You'll know when we are officially a civilised race: our schools have
>> all the money they need and the Air Force has to run a chook raffle to
>>
>> buy a new bomber.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.edulists.com.au
>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
>> Authority and
>> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
>> VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:36:38 +1100
>> From: Mark Kelly <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Copyright / authorship / solutions / ??
>> To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
>> <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
>> Message-ID: <47CF3C96.1000409 at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Ah - I didn't notice you were chasing SD stuff... I assumed it was ITA.
>> I don't know if there are SD QATs. Your best bet is to check the
>> VITTA resources. There are SD SACs there.
>>
>> I will attach the U3 outcomes I used last year, which were approved by
>> VCAA during their audit of my material.
>>
>>
>> Fatima Nazar wrote:
>>> Hello Mark,
>>>
>>> I have looked into QATs and even sent them an email (no reply as yet)
>> about SD - I am brand new to SD and would LOVE to even buy some SACs
>> with suggested solutions as I would then know what can be an excellent
>> answer :) so let me know if you have some up your sleeve please
>>> Regards
>>> Fatima
>>> (have 2 SD classes)
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Mark Kelly
>>> Sent: Thu 3/6/2008 8:28 AM
>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Copyright / authorship / solutions / ??
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Good points there, Adrian. I have a gut feeling that people feel
>> rather
>>> more intimidated writing SD outcomes than they do ITA. It's that much
>>> more complex.
>>>
>>> In a similar vein, I've just finished writing a commercial practice SD
>>> exam and it took much more thinking than the equivalent ITA exam.
>>>
>>> Adrian Janson wrote:
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is a potentially tricky issue - and as one who often posts his
>> SAC
>>>> and theory materials to the lists - one that I must confess is a bit
>> of
>>>> a concern.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Speaking personally, when I post my materials to the lists - I would
>>>> like to think that those who are making use of them do so in the
>> spirit
>>>> in which they have been posted - giving credit where it is due and
>> not
>>>> altering things with a view to reposting them. I think the part of
>> this
>>>> that is the most worrying is that some material did find its way back
>> to
>>>> me which I had originally authored and posted to the lists - but with
>>>> another teachers name on it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It may well just need to be the case that when we post materials to
>> the
>>>> lists, we need to state (in the document as well as in the attached
>>>> email), that the materials are free to use but may not be adapted or
>>>> changed in any way without the permission of the author.... As I put
>> the
>>>> finishing touches on my 2008 SAC1 - I may well do this before I post
>> it
>>>> to the list? I would be interested to know what others think of
>> this?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On another note - something which has been bothering me a great deal.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> After the review process took place last year and schools had the
>> SACs
>>>> and Assessments checked by VCAA - it became apparent that a large
>> number
>>>> of the sampled schools had used my SACs (more than half). Of the
>>>> remaining schools, many had used the VITTA SACs. After posting the
>> SACs
>>>> to the lists, I had many requests for solutions which I tried to
>> provide
>>>> as best I could. I don't mind doing this - however, I think this
>> seems
>>>> to suggest that there are few SD teachers creating their own original
>>>> materials and/or solutions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now - I don't mind doing the work and posting it for everyone to use.
>> I
>>>> think doing this is especially valuable to those starting out with
>> the
>>>> SD course or with programming in general. However, if you are
>> familiar
>>>> with the SD course - I think that you could be doing your own
>> students a
>>>> disservice by not writing your own materials and solutions (and hence
>>>> becoming more familiar with the assessment criteria and the structure
>> of
>>>> the course). In such a circumstance, I think it would be more
>>>> appropriate for you to use my SAC materials (or any others that are
>>>> posted) for practice SAC materials and / or inspiration for your own.
>>>> There is no way I can prevent teachers from simply using my own (or
>>>> others) work as a method of minimising their own workload - however,
>> I
>>>> would implore those engaging in this practice to think of the bigger
>>>> picture.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Adrian Janson
>>>>
>>>> VITTA President
>>>>
>>>> Director of ICT, Melbourne High School
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Poultney,
>> Gordon A
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 5 March 2008 12:13 PM
>>>> *To:* Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are talking about a 2 page SAC here, not the latest from Neal
>>>> Stephenson...
>>>>
>>>> Feel free to do what you want with Shagadelic - just don't put my
>> name
>>>> on it if you change it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you believe in copyright/credit , then Ross' simple attribution
>>>> scheme looks good.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> gordon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------
>>>>
>>>> Gordon Poultney
>>>>
>>>> Horsham College
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Stephen Digby
>>>> *Sent:* Wed 5/3/08 11:31
>>>> *To:* 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
>>>> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>
>>>> What about a simpler attribution such as
>>>>
>>>> Freds Carpet House v6 "Based on SAC by Mark Kelly 2007. Alterations
>> by
>>>> Stephen Digby 2008, Gordon Poultney 2008"
>>>>
>>>> Just as the ridiculous copyright laws reduce the likelihood of
>> attribution
>>>> (less likely to get caught for copyright violation if you remove all
>> info
>>>> re. source).
>>>>
>>>> A overly complex attribution process may reduce the likelihood of
>> sharing.
>>>> As it is, most resources that I have are not able to be shared
>> because of
>>>> copyright (i.e. they are not mine to share)
>>>>
>>>> Lets develop a 'creative common' approach to as much materials as
>>>> possible....
>>>>
>>>> ====================================================
>>>> Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager
>>>> mailto: digby.stephen.p at edumail.vic.gov.au
>>>> Cheltenham Secondary College www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au
>>>> Ph: 613 955 55 955 Fx: 9555 8617 Mb: 0431-701-028
>>>> ====================================================
>>>>
>>>> I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat. Winston
>>>> Churchill
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
>>>> On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 10:15 AM
>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List; Year 12 IT
>>>> Applications Teachers' Mailing List; Year 11 Information Technology
>>>> Teachers' Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>
>>>> (I've X-posted to the ITA and year 11 IT lists. Apols in advance.)
>>>>
>>>> I see an interesting and potentially worrying point developing here.
>>>>
>>>> If we adapt other people's tasks, I think we are obliged to retain
>> the
>>>> version information contained in the task and note ourselves as
>> modifiers
>>>> and let that info stay with the document in its further travels.
>>>>
>>>> I know I would be horrified if a task I created was later 'improved'
>> by some
>>>> anonymous person, thereby damaging it or (even worse) rendering it a
>>>> violation of VCAA rules - with my name still proudly stuck on it as
>> if I
>>>> were solely responsible for its current condition!
>>>>
>>>> When we distribute 'adapted' tasks, I recommend that we:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Of course, retain the original author's identity and document
>> version
>>>> number, if they are in the document. Give the poor authors credit
>> for their
>>>> labours!
>>>>
>>>> 2. Add yourself to the credits as a 'modifier'.
>>>>
>>>> 3. Maybe even summarise your changes (and reasons?) in an addendum at
>> the
>>>> end of the document. This addendum can be removed for printing
>> purposes by
>>>> people who use it later, but it otherwise travels with the document
>> as it
>>>> morphs through the ether.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>>> Poultney, Gordon A wrote:
>>>>> i made up the original 'Shagadelic' which sounds like it has
>> morphed
>>>> into something else. There is only 1 network diagram in the original
>> - for
>>>> the new system .there is/was a marking scheme and complete network
>> diagram
>>>> for the teacher too.
>>>>> cheers Gordon
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------
>>>>> Gordon Poultney
>>>>> Horsham College
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Maggie Iaquinto
>>>>> Sent: Wed 5/3/08 9:14
>>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ross
>>>>>
>>>>> Ross
>>>>>
>>>>> If you were using this practice SAC as the actual one, it would be
>>>>> difficult to separate the marks for Task 1 (systems analysis and
>>>>> design
>>>>> - mistakenly called Task 2 here) from Task 2 (network diagram). You
>>>>> are required to report the marks for the tasks clearly and
>> discretely.
>>>>> Task 1 is 40 marks and Task 2 is 10 marks -- based on 50 for the
>>>>> Outcome.
>>>>> In the assessment sheet nearly 25 marks of the 50 are devoted to
>> the
>>>>> network diagram. This makes it tough to report accurately to VCAA
>> just
>>>>> what your students have received, in terms of the balance of 40/10.
>>>>>
>>>>> Task 2 (network diagram) must be for the proposed new system and
>> this
>>>>> document requires the student to diagram the current and the new.
>>>>> Sure, you can do that but it isn't necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> I notice also that there are marks given to presentation of the
>> report.
>>>>> IMHO I would put those marks into a more finely-grained assessment
>> of
>>>>> all the other Key Skills required in this Outcome.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just an opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maggie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 8:36 AM
>>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>
>>>>> If the task extended across the holidays, make sure the remaining
>> part
>>>>> is not given to them beforehand so they can't pre-produce stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>> Claudia Graham wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Ross,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Re the practice SAC not sure who's that is so can't help there
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regarding the use of the internet not something I have done or
>> would
>>>>> do,
>>>>>> for me it would be too hard to 'patrol'. But as long as all
>> students
>>>>>> have the same conditions it doesn't matter (mind you I don't have a
>>>>>> study design or assessment hand book beside me to check re
>>>>>> conditions)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Same for the time frame, I assume you mean a lesson or two prior to
>>>>> the
>>>>>> holidays and then some after (or similar), not something I would do
>>>>> just
>>>>>> for authentication purposes. I would do it all in a few lessons; I
>>>>> don't
>>>>>> even like weekends between assessment lessons if I can help it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Claudia Graham
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Overnewton College
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Keilor
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> --
>>>>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Ogilvie,
>> Ross
>>>>>> A
>>>>>> *Sent:* 4 March 2008 7:50 PM
>>>>>> *To:* sofdev at edulists.com.au
>>>>>> *Subject:* Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In regard to SD I have a couple of questions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. I have given my class a **Practice SAC** called **Shagadelic
>>>>>> Carpets** (refer to attachment) (hope the author is OK with this).
>>>>>> My
>>>>>> question is....does anyone have the solutions so I can check if I
>> am
>>>>> on
>>>>>> the right track.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. When I give my students the actual SAC:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i. Can/should they access the internet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ii. Would there be a problem (in Vic) if the SAC extended
>> through
>>>>> the
>>>>>> Term One holiday period into Term Two.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kindest Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Ross Ogilvie **
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **LSF ICT Leader **
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Sunbury**** College**
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **30 Racecourse Rd****, Sunbury 3429**
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Ph (W) 9744 1066 **
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ** (H) 54272843**
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Bookmarks: http://del.icio.us/Ross1956**
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Wiki: http://ross1956.wikispaces.com/**
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>> --
>>>> Mark Kelly
>>> --
>>> Mark Kelly
>>> Manager - Information Systems
>>> McKinnon Secondary College
>>> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
>>> Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085
>>> School Phone +613 8520 9000
>>> School Fax +613 95789253
>>> kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>>
>>> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>> <http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au/>
>>> IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com <http://vceit.com/>
>>> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
>>>
>>> You'll know when we are officially a civilised race: our schools have
>>> all the money they need and the Air Force has to run a chook raffle to
>>> buy a new bomber.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au/>
>>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au <http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/> - Victorian
>> Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
>>> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
>> VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.edulists.com.au
>>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
>> Authority and
>>> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
>> VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>>>
>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> 1/03/2008 5:41 PM
>>
>> --
>> Mark Kelly
>> Manager - Information Systems
>> McKinnon Secondary College
>> kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>> McKinnon Rd, McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
>> Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085 Fax +613 9578 9253
>>
>> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>> IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
>> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
>>
>> 1. Education is an admirable thing, but remember that nothing that is
>> worth knowing can be taught - Oscar Wilde
>> 2. I make trouble. You want some? - Mark Kelly
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>> ------------------------------
>>
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>>
>> End of sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 17
>> **************************************
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>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.edulists.com.au
>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
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>> and
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au
> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>
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>
--
Mark Kelly
Manager - Information Systems
McKinnon Secondary College
kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
McKinnon Rd, McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085 Fax +613 9578 9253
Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
1. Education is an admirable thing, but remember that nothing that is
worth knowing can be taught - Oscar Wilde
2. I make trouble. You want some? - Mark Kelly
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