[Year 12 SofDev] RE: sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 18
Mark Kelly
kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
Thu Mar 6 12:57:10 EST 2008
Maybe VCAA will want to help out too?
Kelly Beattie wrote:
> VITTA will be looking to run PD on writing your own SACs in the very near
> future. This was placed on the PD agenda last month.
>
> Cheers
>
> Kelly Beattie
> Educational Leader
> Curriculum/Leadings Schools Fund
> Drouin Secondary College
> South Road, Drouin 3818
> Ph: (03) 5625 1002
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> On Behalf Of sofdev-request at edulists.com.au
> Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 12:14 PM
> To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
> Subject: sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 18
>
> Send sofdev mailing list submissions to
> sofdev at edulists.com.au
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/sofdev
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> sofdev-request at edulists.com.au
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> sofdev-owner at edulists.com.au
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of sofdev digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Copyright / authorship / solutions / ?? (Mark Kelly)
> 2. Re: Why aren't teachers able to write their own material ?
> (Mark Kelly)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:04:53 +1100
> From: Mark Kelly <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Copyright / authorship / solutions / ??
> To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
> <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
> Message-ID: <47CF4335.6030802 at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Ah - dammit. Sorry, folks. I thought Fatima had emailed me directly
> and I was replying only to her.
>
> Please forgive the largeish attachment.
>
> Mark
>
> Mark Kelly wrote:
>> Ah - I didn't notice you were chasing SD stuff... I assumed it was ITA.
>> I don't know if there are SD QATs. Your best bet is to check the VITTA
>> resources. There are SD SACs there.
>>
>> I will attach the U3 outcomes I used last year, which were approved by
>> VCAA during their audit of my material.
>>
>>
>> Fatima Nazar wrote:
>>> Hello Mark,
>>>
>>> I have looked into QATs and even sent them an email (no reply as yet)
>>> about SD - I am brand new to SD and would LOVE to even buy some SACs
>>> with suggested solutions as I would then know what can be an excellent
>>> answer :) so let me know if you have some up your sleeve please
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Fatima
>>> (have 2 SD classes)
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Mark Kelly
>>> Sent: Thu 3/6/2008 8:28 AM
>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Copyright / authorship / solutions / ??
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Good points there, Adrian. I have a gut feeling that people feel rather
>>> more intimidated writing SD outcomes than they do ITA. It's that much
>>> more complex.
>>>
>>> In a similar vein, I've just finished writing a commercial practice SD
>>> exam and it took much more thinking than the equivalent ITA exam.
>>>
>>> Adrian Janson wrote:
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is a potentially tricky issue - and as one who often posts his SAC
>>>> and theory materials to the lists - one that I must confess is a bit of
>>>> a concern.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Speaking personally, when I post my materials to the lists - I would
>>>> like to think that those who are making use of them do so in the spirit
>>>> in which they have been posted - giving credit where it is due and not
>>>> altering things with a view to reposting them. I think the part of this
>>>> that is the most worrying is that some material did find its way back to
>>>> me which I had originally authored and posted to the lists - but with
>>>> another teachers name on it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It may well just need to be the case that when we post materials to the
>>>> lists, we need to state (in the document as well as in the attached
>>>> email), that the materials are free to use but may not be adapted or
>>>> changed in any way without the permission of the author.... As I put
>>>> the
>>>> finishing touches on my 2008 SAC1 - I may well do this before I post it
>>>> to the list? I would be interested to know what others think of this?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On another note - something which has been bothering me a great deal.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> After the review process took place last year and schools had the SACs
>>>> and Assessments checked by VCAA - it became apparent that a large number
>>>> of the sampled schools had used my SACs (more than half). Of the
>>>> remaining schools, many had used the VITTA SACs. After posting the SACs
>>>> to the lists, I had many requests for solutions which I tried to provide
>>>> as best I could. I don't mind doing this - however, I think this seems
>>>> to suggest that there are few SD teachers creating their own original
>>>> materials and/or solutions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now - I don't mind doing the work and posting it for everyone to use. I
>>>> think doing this is especially valuable to those starting out with the
>>>> SD course or with programming in general. However, if you are familiar
>>>> with the SD course - I think that you could be doing your own students a
>>>> disservice by not writing your own materials and solutions (and hence
>>>> becoming more familiar with the assessment criteria and the structure of
>>>> the course). In such a circumstance, I think it would be more
>>>> appropriate for you to use my SAC materials (or any others that are
>>>> posted) for practice SAC materials and / or inspiration for your own.
>>>> There is no way I can prevent teachers from simply using my own (or
>>>> others) work as a method of minimising their own workload - however, I
>>>> would implore those engaging in this practice to think of the bigger
>>>> picture.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Adrian Janson
>>>>
>>>> VITTA President
>>>>
>>>> Director of ICT, Melbourne High School
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Poultney,
>>>> Gordon A
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 5 March 2008 12:13 PM
>>>> *To:* Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are talking about a 2 page SAC here, not the latest from Neal
>>>> Stephenson...
>>>>
>>>> Feel free to do what you want with Shagadelic - just don't put my name
>>>> on it if you change it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you believe in copyright/credit , then Ross' simple attribution
>>>> scheme looks good.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> gordon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------
>>>>
>>>> Gordon Poultney
>>>>
>>>> Horsham College
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Stephen Digby
>>>> *Sent:* Wed 5/3/08 11:31
>>>> *To:* 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
>>>> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>
>>>> What about a simpler attribution such as
>>>>
>>>> Freds Carpet House v6 "Based on SAC by Mark Kelly 2007. Alterations by
>>>> Stephen Digby 2008, Gordon Poultney 2008"
>>>>
>>>> Just as the ridiculous copyright laws reduce the likelihood of
>>>> attribution
>>>> (less likely to get caught for copyright violation if you remove all
>>>> info
>>>> re. source).
>>>>
>>>> A overly complex attribution process may reduce the likelihood of
>>>> sharing.
>>>>
>>>> As it is, most resources that I have are not able to be shared
>>>> because of
>>>> copyright (i.e. they are not mine to share)
>>>>
>>>> Lets develop a 'creative common' approach to as much materials as
>>>> possible....
>>>>
>>>> ====================================================
>>>> Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager
>>>> mailto: digby.stephen.p at edumail.vic.gov.au
>>>> Cheltenham Secondary College www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au
>>>> Ph: 613 955 55 955 Fx: 9555 8617 Mb: 0431-701-028
>>>> ====================================================
>>>>
>>>> I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat. Winston
>>>> Churchill
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
>>>> On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 10:15 AM
>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List; Year 12 IT
>>>> Applications Teachers' Mailing List; Year 11 Information Technology
>>>> Teachers' Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>
>>>> (I've X-posted to the ITA and year 11 IT lists. Apols in advance.)
>>>>
>>>> I see an interesting and potentially worrying point developing here.
>>>>
>>>> If we adapt other people's tasks, I think we are obliged to retain the
>>>> version information contained in the task and note ourselves as
>>>> modifiers
>>>> and let that info stay with the document in its further travels.
>>>>
>>>> I know I would be horrified if a task I created was later 'improved'
>>>> by some
>>>> anonymous person, thereby damaging it or (even worse) rendering it a
>>>> violation of VCAA rules - with my name still proudly stuck on it as if I
>>>> were solely responsible for its current condition!
>>>>
>>>> When we distribute 'adapted' tasks, I recommend that we:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Of course, retain the original author's identity and document version
>>>> number, if they are in the document. Give the poor authors credit
>>>> for their
>>>> labours!
>>>>
>>>> 2. Add yourself to the credits as a 'modifier'.
>>>>
>>>> 3. Maybe even summarise your changes (and reasons?) in an addendum at
>>>> the
>>>> end of the document. This addendum can be removed for printing
>>>> purposes by
>>>> people who use it later, but it otherwise travels with the document
>>>> as it
>>>> morphs through the ether.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>>> Poultney, Gordon A wrote:
>>>>> i made up the original 'Shagadelic' which sounds like it has morphed
>>>> into something else. There is only 1 network diagram in the original
>>>> - for
>>>> the new system .there is/was a marking scheme and complete network
>>>> diagram
>>>> for the teacher too.
>>>>> cheers Gordon
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------
>>>>> Gordon Poultney
>>>>> Horsham College
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Maggie Iaquinto
>>>>> Sent: Wed 5/3/08 9:14
>>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ross
>>>>>
>>>>> Ross
>>>>>
>>>>> If you were using this practice SAC as the actual one, it would be
>>>>> difficult to separate the marks for Task 1 (systems analysis and
>>>>> design
>>>>> - mistakenly called Task 2 here) from Task 2 (network diagram). You
>>>>> are required to report the marks for the tasks clearly and discretely.
>>>>>
>>>>> Task 1 is 40 marks and Task 2 is 10 marks -- based on 50 for the
>>>>> Outcome.
>>>>> In the assessment sheet nearly 25 marks of the 50 are devoted to the
>>>>> network diagram. This makes it tough to report accurately to VCAA just
>>>>> what your students have received, in terms of the balance of 40/10.
>>>>>
>>>>> Task 2 (network diagram) must be for the proposed new system and this
>>>>> document requires the student to diagram the current and the new.
>>>>> Sure, you can do that but it isn't necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> I notice also that there are marks given to presentation of the
>>>>> report.
>>>>> IMHO I would put those marks into a more finely-grained assessment of
>>>>> all the other Key Skills required in this Outcome.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just an opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maggie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 8:36 AM
>>>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>
>>>>> If the task extended across the holidays, make sure the remaining part
>>>>> is not given to them beforehand so they can't pre-produce stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>> Claudia Graham wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Ross,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Re the practice SAC not sure who's that is so can't help there
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regarding the use of the internet not something I have done or would
>>>>> do,
>>>>>> for me it would be too hard to 'patrol'. But as long as all students
>>>>>> have the same conditions it doesn't matter (mind you I don't have a
>>>>>> study design or assessment hand book beside me to check re
>>>>>> conditions)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Same for the time frame, I assume you mean a lesson or two prior to
>>>>> the
>>>>>> holidays and then some after (or similar), not something I would do
>>>>> just
>>>>>> for authentication purposes. I would do it all in a few lessons; I
>>>>> don't
>>>>>> even like weekends between assessment lessons if I can help it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Claudia Graham
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Overnewton College
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Keilor
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> --
>>>>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Ogilvie, Ross
>>>>>> A
>>>>>> *Sent:* 4 March 2008 7:50 PM
>>>>>> *To:* sofdev at edulists.com.au
>>>>>> *Subject:* Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In regard to SD I have a couple of questions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. I have given my class a **Practice SAC** called **Shagadelic
>>>>>> Carpets** (refer to attachment) (hope the author is OK with this).
>>>>>> My
>>>>>> question is....does anyone have the solutions so I can check if I am
>>>>> on
>>>>>> the right track.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. When I give my students the actual SAC:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i. Can/should they access the internet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ii. Would there be a problem (in Vic) if the SAC extended through
>>>>> the
>>>>>> Term One holiday period into Term Two.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kindest Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Ross Ogilvie **
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **LSF ICT Leader **
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Sunbury**** College**
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **30 Racecourse Rd****, Sunbury 3429**
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Ph (W) 9744 1066 **
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ** (H) 54272843**
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Bookmarks: http://del.icio.us/Ross1956**
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Wiki: http://ross1956.wikispaces.com/**
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>> --
>>>> Mark Kelly
>>> --
>>> Mark Kelly
>>> Manager - Information Systems
>>> McKinnon Secondary College
>>> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
>>> Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085
>>> School Phone +613 8520 9000
>>> School Fax +613 95789253
>>> kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>>
>>> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>> <http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au/> IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
>>> <http://vceit.com/> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
>>>
>>> You'll know when we are officially a civilised race: our schools have
>>> all the money they need and the Air Force has to run a chook raffle to
>>> buy a new bomber.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au/> IT Software
>>> Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au <http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/> - Victorian
>>> Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
>>> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
>>> VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.edulists.com.au
>>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
>>> Authority and
>>> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
>>> VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database:
>>> 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 1/03/2008 5:41 PM
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 1/03/2008
> 5:41 PM
>
--
Mark Kelly
Manager - Information Systems
McKinnon Secondary College
kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
McKinnon Rd, McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085 Fax +613 9578 9253
Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
1. Education is an admirable thing, but remember that nothing that is
worth knowing can be taught - Oscar Wilde
2. I make trouble. You want some? - Mark Kelly
More information about the sofdev
mailing list