[Year 12 IT Apps] itapps Digest, Vol 109, Issue 24
John Schwartz
schwartz at melbpc.org.au
Thu Mar 27 14:05:15 EST 2014
Repeating a post from last year.... I always taught that tables were for storing basic data. Forms and reports were for displaying the required information. Queries were for doing the processing (sorting, selecting, calculating, etc.) required to use the data to produce the information.
Therefore the only place for calculated fields is in queries.
Sent from my iPad
John S. Schwartz
Semi-retired
Sent from my iPad
John S. Schwartz
> On 27 Mar 2014, at 9:30 am, "Benn POLLOCK" <pol at wantirnacollege.vic.edu.au> wrote:
>
> I've always taught my students to never include a calculated field in a table as it breaks 3NF. If they are required, they must show them via developing a Query.
>
>
>> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:15 AM, <itapps-request at edulists.com.au> wrote:
>> Send itapps mailing list submissions to
>> itapps at edulists.com.au
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/itapps
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> itapps-request at edulists.com.au
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> itapps-owner at edulists.com.au
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of itapps digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: MS Access - Calculated fields (Litsa Tzelepis)
>> 2. Re: MS Access - Calculated fields (Savage, John L)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 22:29:33 +1100
>> From: Litsa Tzelepis <htzelepis at msj.vic.edu.au>
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] MS Access - Calculated fields
>> To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"
>> <itapps at edulists.com.au>
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAODCwv87nEfVNUTHnyiVmCsNp8T+GKoM9bHpexP3dnQv=UzezQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Oh never in a table. In a query only. I missed that bit in the original
>> message. I agree fully.
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 26, 2014, Natalie H <natinga71 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I'd never store a calculated field in a table. Queries all the way.
>> >
>> > Natalie Heath, Parade College
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPad
>> >
>> > On 26 Mar 2014, at 8:27 pm, John Schwartz <schwartz at melbpc.org.au> wrote:
>> >
>> > I am in total agreement.
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPad
>> >
>> > John S. Schwartz
>> >
>> > On 26 Mar 2014, at 4:44 pm, "Groves, Brett G" <
>> > groves.brett.g at edumail.vic.gov.au> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi all - my 2 centimes
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Can't really see the value of calculated fields in Access, maybe it is
>> > because I come at it from an SQL perspective but it represents fairly dodgy
>> > database practice methinks.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Can't really see how you can have true 3N with a calculated field stored
>> > in a table? Or have I got my head around it wrong?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I don't think I'll be including it at present; students should be using
>> > forms (and attendant query) in datasheet view for such operations IMHO
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Kind Regards,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Brett Groves
>> >
>> > <image001.gif>
>> >
>> > Melba College
>> >
>> > eLearning Leader
>> >
>> > 03 9725 8277 Ext 221
>> >
>> > eLearning Resources for Educators<http://melba.vic.edu.au/curriculum/elearning/>
>> >
>> >
>> > Newsletter sign up<http://melba.vic.edu.au/curriculum/elearning/elearning-newsletter/>
>> >
>> >
>> > Past Issues<http://us7.campaign-archive1.com/home/?u=3552e93cf6fe9d34510f19694&id=1cc14525a0>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > *From:* itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [
>> > mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Robert Timmer-Arends
>> > *Sent:* Thursday, 13 February 2014 5:32 PM
>> > *To:* Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>> > *Subject:* Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] MS Access - Calculated fields
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Hello Damien
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > you may find this discussion useful
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > http://allenbrowne.com/casu-14.html
>> >
>> > The update at the end covers Access 2010
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> IMPORTANT! This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received
>> in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Mount St Joseph Girls'
>> College does not represent or warrant that the attached files are free from
>> computer viruses or other defects. The attached files are provided, and may
>> only be used, on the basis that the user assumes all responsibility for any
>> loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from the use
>> of the attached files, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or
>> not. The liability of Mount St Joseph Girls' College is limited in any
>> event to either the resupply of the attached files or the cost of having
>> the attached files resupplied. Any representations or opinions expressed in
>> this email are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of
>> Mount St Joseph Girls' College.
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/itapps/attachments/20140326/924de59e/attachment-0001.html
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 22:15:38 +0000
>> From: "Savage, John L" <savage.john.l at edumail.vic.gov.au>
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] MS Access - Calculated fields
>> To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"
>> <itapps at edulists.com.au>
>> Message-ID:
>> <0486B4B1D146C64D9C1FE6705B0698F128AE2AA6 at EDUMBX01.education.vic.gov.au>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> I think you're right. Having calculated fields defined in the tables takes us right away from a pure Codd style database. On the other hand Filemaker and, on DOS, DataPerfect did it for years. Convenience over purity?
>>
>> My gut feeling is to stay away from calculated fields at this stage and use queries. Always best to start with best practice and then learn the tricks.
>>
>> Laurie Savage
>>
>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Groves, Brett G
>> Sent: Wednesday, 26 March 2014 4:28 PM
>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] MS Access - Calculated fields
>>
>> Hi all - my 2 centimes
>>
>> Can't really see the value of calculated fields in Access, maybe it is because I come at it from an SQL perspective but it represents fairly dodgy database practice methinks.
>>
>> Can't really see how you can have true 3N with a calculated field stored in a table? Or have I got my head around it wrong?
>>
>> I don't think I'll be including it at present; students should be using forms (and attendant query) in datasheet view for such operations IMHO
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>>
>> Brett Groves
>> [logosmall]
>> Melba College
>> eLearning Leader
>> 03 9725 8277 Ext 221
>> eLearning Resources for Educators<http://melba.vic.edu.au/curriculum/elearning/>
>> Newsletter sign up<http://melba.vic.edu.au/curriculum/elearning/elearning-newsletter/>
>> Past Issues<http://us7.campaign-archive1.com/home/?u=3552e93cf6fe9d34510f19694&id=1cc14525a0>
>>
>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au> [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Robert Timmer-Arends
>> Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 5:32 PM
>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] MS Access - Calculated fields
>>
>> Hello Damien
>>
>> you may find this discussion useful
>>
>> http://allenbrowne.com/casu-14.html
>> The update at the end covers Access 2010
>>
>> Personally, the only situation I can see that might justify a value that is calculated once and then stored in a field (as Access 2010 seems to do), is where you need to squeeze every bit of performance out of the dbms that you can; for example, if you had a truck load of data that had to be pulled frequently, calculating a new value each time (either by query or on the fly like FileMaker) could slow retrieval down. But I can't see that happening on modern equip unless you have a lot of data, and/or maybe an overworked remote server?
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> Robert T-A
>> Brighton SC
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: ATKINSON-BUCK, Damien<mailto:Damien.ATKINSON-BUCK at ivanhoe.com.au>
>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<mailto:itapps at edulists.com.au>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 1:38 PM
>> Subject: [Year 12 IT Apps] MS Access - Calculated fields
>>
>> Hi folks,
>> Just looking into Outcome 2 and looking at the 2010 version of MS Access. I hadn't noticed before, but you can now create a calculated field in the table definitions. This means that not only does it do the calculation (duh) but stores that value too, so you no longer have to create a query to do that.
>> Now, I always stress to my cherubs that one of the primary reasons for making a database is to reduce the amount of space the data is going to take up. This new 'feature' does the reverse. Given hard drives are so cheap and our down databases are comparatively quite small, it doesn't really affect SAC scenarios......... but should we be teaching best practices or "The Way of the Access"? How do others feel about this?
>> Cheers
>> Damien
>>
>> Damien Atkinson-Buck
>> Head of Learning Area: Technology/Arts
>> p: +61 3 9490 3848
>>
>> e: damien.atkinson-buck at ivanhoe.com.au<mailto:damien.atkinson-buck at ivanhoe.com.au>
>>
>> f: +61 3 9490 3490
>>
>> w: www.ivanhoe.com.au<http://www.ivanhoe.com.au>
>>
>> [cid:image002.jpg at 01CF499C.F886BFA0]
>> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Privacy, Virus and Copyright Warning
>>
>> The information contained in this electronic message (e-mail), and any files transmitted with it:
>>
>> * is intended for the named recipients only. If you have received this in error, please advise the sender and delete it and any copies immediately;
>> * Any personal information in this email must be used in accordance with the Privacy Act 1988 and this always applies even if it has been sent to you in error.
>> * represents the views of the sender and does not necessarily represent the views or formal advice of Ivanhoe Grammar School;
>> * may be subject to Copyright, so no further use should be made of it without the author's permission.
>>
>> The School does not represent or warrant that the email or any files attached do not contain errors or are free from computer viruses or other defects nor does it accept responsibility for any loss or damage resulting directly or indirectly from the use of the email or any attached files.
>> ________________________________
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
>> IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority <br>
>> http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc <br>
>> http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools - Swinburne University
>>
>> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
>>
>> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/itapps/attachments/20140326/2f21d920/attachment.html
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> Name: image001.gif
>> Type: image/gif
>> Size: 1503 bytes
>> Desc: image001.gif
>> Url : http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/itapps/attachments/20140326/2f21d920/image001.gif
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> Name: image002.jpg
>> Type: image/jpeg
>> Size: 51301 bytes
>> Desc: image002.jpg
>> Url : http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/itapps/attachments/20140326/2f21d920/image002.jpg
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> itapps mailing list
>> itapps at edulists.com.au
>> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/itapps
>>
>>
>> End of itapps Digest, Vol 109, Issue 24
>> ***************************************
>
>
>
> --
> Benn Pollock
> VCE Information Technology Teacher
> e-Learning Coordinator
> Ph. 9801-9700
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
> IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority <br>
> http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc <br>
> http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools - Swinburne University
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/itapps/attachments/20140327/60442d48/attachment-0001.html
More information about the itapps
mailing list