[Year 12 IT Apps] itapps Digest, Vol 109, Issue 24

Thu Mar 27 09:22:48 EST 2014

I've always taught my students to never include a calculated field in a
table as it breaks 3NF. If they are required, they must show them via
developing a Query.

On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:15 AM, <itapps-request at edulists.com.au> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: MS Access - Calculated fields (Litsa Tzelepis)
>    2. Re: MS Access - Calculated fields (Savage, John L)
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 22:29:33 +1100
> From: Litsa Tzelepis <htzelepis at msj.vic.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] MS Access - Calculated fields
> To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"
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> Oh never in a table. In a query only. I missed that bit in the original
> message. I agree fully.
>
> On Wednesday, March 26, 2014, Natalie H <natinga71 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I'd never store a calculated field in a table. Queries all the way.
> >
> > Natalie Heath, Parade College
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > On 26 Mar 2014, at 8:27 pm, John Schwartz <schwartz at melbpc.org.au>
> wrote:
> >
> > I am in total agreement.
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > John S. Schwartz
> >
> > On 26 Mar 2014, at 4:44 pm, "Groves, Brett G" <
> > groves.brett.g at edumail.vic.gov.au> wrote:
> >
> >  Hi all - my 2 centimes
> >
> >
> >
> > Can't really see the value of calculated fields in Access, maybe it is
> > because I come at it from an SQL perspective but it represents fairly
> dodgy
> > database practice methinks.
> >
> >
> >
> > Can't really see how you can have true 3N with a calculated field stored
> > in a table? Or have I got my head around it wrong?
> >
> >
> >
> > I don't think I'll be including it at present; students should be using
> > forms (and attendant query)  in datasheet view for such operations IMHO
> >
> >
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Brett Groves
> >
> > <image001.gif>
> >
> > Melba College
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> > *From:* itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [
> > mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Robert
> Timmer-Arends
> > *Sent:* Thursday, 13 February 2014 5:32 PM
> > *To:* Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
> > *Subject:* Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] MS Access - Calculated fields
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello Damien
> >
> >
> >
> > you may find this discussion useful
> >
> >
> >
> > http://allenbrowne.com/casu-14.html
> >
> > The update at the end covers Access 2010
> >
> >
>
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> ------------------------------
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> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 22:15:38 +0000
> From: "Savage, John L" <savage.john.l at edumail.vic.gov.au>
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] MS Access - Calculated fields
> To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"
>         <itapps at edulists.com.au>
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> 0486B4B1D146C64D9C1FE6705B0698F128AE2AA6 at EDUMBX01.education.vic.gov.au>
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> I think you're right. Having calculated fields defined in the tables takes
> us right away from a pure Codd style database. On the other hand Filemaker
> and, on DOS, DataPerfect did it for years. Convenience over purity?
>
> My gut feeling is to stay away from calculated fields at this stage and
> use queries. Always best to start with best practice and then learn the
> tricks.
>
> Laurie Savage
>
> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:
> itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Groves, Brett G
> Sent: Wednesday, 26 March 2014 4:28 PM
> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] MS Access - Calculated fields
>
> Hi all - my 2 centimes
>
> Can't really see the value of calculated fields in Access, maybe it is
> because I come at it from an SQL perspective but it represents fairly dodgy
> database practice methinks.
>
> Can't really see how you can have true 3N with a calculated field stored
> in a table? Or have I got my head around it wrong?
>
> I don't think I'll be including it at present; students should be using
> forms (and attendant query)  in datasheet view for such operations IMHO
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Brett Groves
> [logosmall]
> Melba College
> eLearning Leader
> 03 9725 8277 Ext 221
> eLearning Resources for Educators<
> http://melba.vic.edu.au/curriculum/elearning/>
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> http://melba.vic.edu.au/curriculum/elearning/elearning-newsletter/>
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> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au>
> [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Robert Timmer-Arends
> Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 5:32 PM
> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] MS Access - Calculated fields
>
> Hello Damien
>
> you may find this discussion useful
>
> http://allenbrowne.com/casu-14.html
> The update at the end covers Access 2010
>
> Personally, the only situation I can see that might justify a value that
> is calculated once and then stored in a field (as Access 2010 seems to do),
> is where you need to squeeze every bit of performance out of the dbms that
> you can; for example, if you had a truck load of data that had to be pulled
> frequently, calculating a new value each time (either by query or on the
> fly like FileMaker) could slow retrieval down. But I can't see that
> happening on modern equip unless you have a lot of data, and/or maybe an
> overworked remote server?
>
>
> Regards
> Robert T-A
> Brighton SC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ATKINSON-BUCK, Damien<mailto:Damien.ATKINSON-BUCK at ivanhoe.com.au>
> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<mailto:
> itapps at edulists.com.au>
> Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 1:38 PM
> Subject: [Year 12 IT Apps] MS Access - Calculated fields
>
> Hi folks,
>             Just looking into Outcome 2 and looking at the 2010 version of
> MS Access. I hadn't noticed before, but you can now create a calculated
> field  in the table definitions. This means that not only does it do the
> calculation (duh) but stores that value too, so you no longer have to
> create a query to do that.
> Now, I always stress to my cherubs that one of the primary reasons for
> making a database is to reduce the amount of space the data is going to
> take up. This new 'feature' does the reverse. Given hard drives are so
> cheap and our down databases are comparatively quite small, it doesn't
> really affect SAC scenarios......... but should we be teaching best
> practices or "The Way of the Access"? How do others feel about this?
> Cheers
> Damien
>
> Damien Atkinson-Buck
> Head of Learning Area: Technology/Arts
> p: +61 3 9490 3848
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