[Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...

Mark Scott msc at luther.vic.edu.au
Fri Nov 18 17:57:23 EST 2011 

So all I can I say is...

WOOF

Mark Scott
Luther College

________________________________
From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Timmer-Arends [timmer at melbpc.org.au]
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 4:51 PM
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...

Hello all

and to throw my 2 cents worth into a discussion I'm not really on top of, apart from agreeing with Mark, I also want to point out that there is a difference between 'data typing' in Access and 'data formatting' in Excel.

Regards
Robert T-A

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark KELLY<mailto:kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List<mailto:itapps at edulists.com.au>
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...

Hi Doug. The point remains that the question does not refer to Excel.
Excel is not a good example of software to think about for this question - it handles things that "look like numbers" quite unusually. I think that's what is confusing people.

A better case to consider is a file manager's listing of files with names beginning with digits. They are arranged as ASCII text, and appear like '

12.txt
44.txt
500.txt
6.txt

etc


Regards
Mark

On 18 November 2011 14:33, WRIGHT, Douglas <dwright at whitefriars.vic.edu.au<mailto:dwright at whitefriars.vic.edu.au>> wrote:
Hi Mark and others,

In my reading of question 13, I notice that it states “… are entered as text data”
This implies that in a database the field type is set to text and in a spreadsheet the cell format is set to text before the data is entered.
By doing this the correct answer is B (as tested in Excel)

As generally the default format for a cell will be “general” which is numeric if you enter a number in Excel, this I believe has led to the confusing results.

The question asks to enter as text then sort, not to enter as numeric then change to text then sort
B is correct

Regards
Doug Wright
Whitefriars College

From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au> [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au>] On Behalf Of Mark KELLY
Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 3:07 PM

To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...

Hi Esko


Changing the cell formatting is not enough. Excel still over-rides it because it sees things that "look like numbers" and sorts it in its own stubborn style.

You have to force them to be text with the leading apostrophe for Excel to grudgingly allow that the human wants things done your way.
On 15 November 2011 11:11, Esko Lossi <elossi at chairo.vic.edu.au<mailto:elossi at chairo.vic.edu.au>> wrote:
When you change the data type of the numbers to text in Excel, it still gives A as the answer.
I am using Excel 2003.

Regards
Esko Lossi
ICT/Reporting Coordinator
Chairo Christian School, Drouin Campus
Contact: 56254600 ext 101
elossi at chairo.vic.edu.au<mailto:elossi at chairo.vic.edu.au>

Disclaimer: Whilst every attempt has been made to ensure that material contained in this email is free from computer viruses or other defects, the attached files are provided, and may only be used, on the basis that the user assumes all responsibility for use of the material transmitted. This email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above and may contain information that is confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately by return email or telephone 03 5625 4600<tel:03%205625%204600> and destroy the original message. The contents of this message are provided without responsibility in law for their accuracy or otherwise and without assumption of a duty of care by the Warragul District Parent Controlled Christian School Association Incorporated trading as Chairo Christian School.
________________________________
From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au> [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au>] On Behalf Of Mark KELLY
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 10:42 AM

To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...

Try forcing the numbers to be text (put an apostophe in front of the digits) and try it again.  Excel has to ask you what you really want to sort as text or as thinks that "look like numbers."
On 15 November 2011 09:37, Esko Lossi <elossi at chairo.vic.edu.au<mailto:elossi at chairo.vic.edu.au>> wrote:
When I do question 13 (Section A) on a spreadsheet, the answer the spreadsheet gives is A.

Regards
Esko Lossi
ICT/Reporting Coordinator
Chairo Christian School, Drouin Campus
Contact: 56254600 ext 101
elossi at chairo.vic.edu.au<mailto:elossi at chairo.vic.edu.au>

Disclaimer: Whilst every attempt has been made to ensure that material contained in this email is free from computer viruses or other defects, the attached files are provided, and may only be used, on the basis that the user assumes all responsibility for use of the material transmitted. This email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above and may contain information that is confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately by return email or telephone 03 5625 4600<tel:03%205625%204600> and destroy the original message. The contents of this message are provided without responsibility in law for their accuracy or otherwise and without assumption of a duty of care by the Warragul District Parent Controlled Christian School Association Incorporated trading as Chairo Christian School.
________________________________
From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au> [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au>] On Behalf Of Ken Tonkin
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 9:29 AM

To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...

David, I agree with most of your answers for the MC questions, except no.9 I think the answer should be 9B as tactical decisions are more short term and specific.
Ken Tonkin

From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au> [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au>] On Behalf Of Howard, David
Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 8:31 AM
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...

I’m with Mark on this one. Definitely A.

Validation can ensure that I input a date of birth for example that is reasonable, say 12/08/1981 but is it accurate, no!


Here are my multiple choice answers.

1 B
2 A
3 D
4 D
5 A
6 A
7 B
8 A
9 A – not so confident on that one
10 A
11 C
12 C
13 B
14 B
15 D
16 C
17 B
18 B
19 C
20 C



David Howard

Head of IT & Learning Technologies



25 Chapel Street, St Kilda VIC 3182 Australia

Phone +61 3 8530 3272<tel:%2B61%203%208530%203272>
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Email dhoward at stmichaels.vic.edu.au<mailto:dhoward at stmichaels.vic.edu.au>
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From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au> [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au>] On Behalf Of Mark Scott
Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 8:14 AM
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...


Validation deals with data entry.

Options B, C and D are all testing to ensure data manipulation is correct/accurate etc.

Only option A clearly deals with data entry (i.e. the most correct option)

thanks
Mark Scott
Luther College

"The busier you get, the slower you walk" anon

From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au> [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au>] On Behalf Of Michael Torsello (Mr)
Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 8:03 AM
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...

Dear wiser colleagues
Can someone help me with MC question 8?

An effective validation technique is evident when … all answers seem to support the presence of an effective validation technique.

A – at first glance the answer but is reasonableness the best evidence of validation?
B- an accurate report suggests accurate input data, doesn’t it?
C- least likely but again “reasonably”? What does that mean? If data can be sorted is it valid?
D –calculated files gives correct answers! Is this evidence of GIGO – not garbage in, garbage out, but good in, good out?

I’m confused!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With Thanks
Michael Torsello
Director of Computing
St Margaret's School, Berwick
Berwick Grammar School, Officer
Ph: (03) 9703 8111<tel:%2803%29%209703%208111>

P Save paper and trees. Do you need to print this email?

From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au> [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au]<mailto:%5bmailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au%5d> On Behalf Of Ben Hines
Sent: Monday, 14 November 2011 4:32 PM
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...

Yeah I just found that, thanks

From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au> [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au]<mailto:%5bmailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au%5d> On Behalf Of Howard, David
Sent: Monday, 14 November 2011 3:39 PM
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...

A – Scope see page 17 of the study design.

From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au> [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au]<mailto:%5bmailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au%5d> On Behalf Of Ben Hines
Sent: Monday, 14 November 2011 2:37 PM
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...

I cannot believe that number question. No one would normally type numbers in as numerals, set the data type to text and then order from A -> Z.

I doubt anyone would get the answer to that unless they have accidentally done it in the past.

Because you have entered them as text, the sort will only look at the left most number to order them (just like with normal ones).

Answer according to Access is B….

Question 5 in the Multiple Choice? What’s the consensus on that one?

Ta


Mr Ben Hines

VCE Maths/ICT Teacher
Senior School Campus - Christian College Geelong
•(03) 52411577<tel:%2803%29%2052411577> (ext. 212)



From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au> [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au]<mailto:%5bmailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au%5d> On Behalf Of Howard, David
Sent: Monday, 14 November 2011 2:15 PM
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...

I don’t have the paper in front of me, but after a quick chat to my students, plain to see that they had differing opinions on the sorting of numbers as text question in the multiple choice.

I’m not marking this year by the way.

From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au> [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au]<mailto:%5bmailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au%5d> On Behalf Of Mark KELLY
Sent: Monday, 14 November 2011 1:52 PM
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...

I'm reading the paper now.

Section A looks pretty free of rabies.

I have put the gun down after reading the normalisation question...  Thank Dog sanity prevailed on that one!

Damn that ERD question - three marks and they had to draw an entire diagram from scratch!  Grrr.

The 8 mark question appeared, as we expected.  And it was approachable.

Overall, I think I might give the dog a bone.


--
Mark Kelly
Manager of ICT, Reporting, IT Learning Area
McKinnon Secondary College
McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085<tel:%2B613%208520%209085>, Fax +613 9578 9253<tel:%2B613%209578%209253>
kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au<mailto:kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
VCE IT Lecture Notes: http://vceit.com
Moderator: IT Applications Edulist<http://www.edulists.com.au/>

Want a good time? Call 0112358. Ask for Mr Fibonacci.

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--
Mark Kelly
Manager of ICT, Reporting, IT Learning Area
McKinnon Secondary College
McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085<tel:%2B613%208520%209085>, Fax +613 9578 9253<tel:%2B613%209578%209253>
kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au<mailto:kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
VCE IT Lecture Notes: http://vceit.com
Moderator: IT Applications Edulist<http://www.edulists.com.au/>

Want a good time? Call 0112358. Ask for Mr Fibonacci.

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IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
http://www.vitta.org.au  - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc



--
Mark Kelly
Manager of ICT, Reporting, IT Learning Area
McKinnon Secondary College
McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085<tel:%2B613%208520%209085>, Fax +613 9578 9253<tel:%2B613%209578%209253>
kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au<mailto:kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
VCE IT Lecture Notes: http://vceit.com
Moderator: IT Applications Edulist<http://www.edulists.com.au/>

Want a good time? Call 0112358. Ask for Mr Fibonacci.

_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
http://www.vitta.org.au  - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc



--
Mark Kelly
Manager of ICT, Reporting, IT Learning Area
McKinnon Secondary College
McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085, Fax +613 9578 9253
kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au<mailto:kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
VCE IT Lecture Notes: http://vceit.com
Moderator: IT Applications Edulist<http://www.edulists.com.au/>

Want a good time? Call 0112358. Ask for Mr Fibonacci.

________________________________

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IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
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