[Year 12 IT Apps] Emails as a legal document
Roland Gesthuizen
rgesthuizen at gmail.com
Thu Aug 19 07:43:56 EST 2010
Paula is right and it does become a case for not using your Edumail (or even
your school) email account on these lists. It does help to quarantine your
identity to the role you are playing at that moment. Using an external
account such as a throw-away or life-long gmail account, I am in a better
position to ask difficult edulist questions, explore different learning
strategies and challenge the opinion of others, quarantined from my
day-to-day job as a public servant and teacher.
Some might find it suprising but it does help to keep the engagin, seductive
but sometimes distracting banter that sometimes happens on these lists away
from my regular operational emails and correspondence with my principal or
teaching colleagues. The good thing with many of these new web based mail
systems is that they can be easily configured to send a message using
another identity so you can pick and choose the hat you can wear. Hmm,
sounds like something from the Mikado:
"Ko. So I thought, so I consulted the Attorney-General, the Lord Chief
Justice, the Master of the Rolls, the Judge Ordinary and the Lord
Chancellor. They 're all of the same opinion. Never knew such unanimity on a
point of law in my life ! "
Here is an interesting thought, how could SMS or twitter posts be treated
and would the direct posts to a prime minister be covered under FOI? They
may well be ..
Regards Roland
On 18 August 2010 18:28, Christophersen, Paula P <
christophersen.paula.p at edumail.vic.gov.au> wrote:
> Dear colleagues
>
> >From a Freedom of Information perspective, government emails are treated
> in exactly the same as any other document. Sometimes phone calls or personal
> visits are effective ways of expressing certain opinions.
>
> Regards
> Paula C
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Roland Gesthuizen
> Sent: Wed 18/08/2010 4:06 PM
> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Emails as a legal document
>
>
> Here is something to reflect upon.
>
> I was asked a while ago to send post an agency an employee reference whilst
> holidaying out bush, so I did. Typed it up with Google Apps. Then they
> wanted a school logo, so I added one in and sent the updated google doc PDF
> version. (yes, I take my laptop on holidays .. it needs a break as much as I
> do)
>
> Then they wanted my signature .. hmm, I had a brief thought to scribble
> something with my mouse and add that too. I wasn't anywhere near a fax but
> had free wireless access and somebody eventually dug up a printer. I had a
> brainstorm, how about if I just photographed the signed reference. When I
> was holding it up in the sunlight, my wife remarked as she tried to
> carefully frame the camera that if this was a question of identity would it
> be better that if she took a further step away, then I would have a
> photograph holding the reference .. what better proof did they need. I then
> thought that perhaps a video of me signing the doc would be better still.
>
> When I enquired, common sense finally prevailed and the agency was
> satisfied about my identify. I suspect that the ongoing technical discussion
> about options, document versions etc did more to confirm that I was real
> than all the pixelated signatures that they had no hope of verifying.
>
> So how do we verity a digital identity? I know with my bank I need to
> collect letters, bills, birth certificates. Would the digital equivalent be
> to show sample screenshots from my twitter, facebook, linkedin, delicious
> accounts?
>
> Regards Roland Gesthuizen (The Oz one .. not my unicycling Dutch twin)
>
> On 18 August 2010 15:33, ken price <kenjprice at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Disclaimer - this is comment, not a legal opinion!
>
> The "status of email vs traditional letter" issue is always a great
> topic for students to discuss. Eventually the discussion converges on how
> anyone (at any time in history) can prove or authenticate their identity.
> You'd think this would be much easier now than in the days when laws were
> first formed. Maybe.
>
> Depending on what we mean by "an email" it may have a lot or no
> credibility. If we are just talking about a printed artefact - well, that
> could be generated by anyone or anything, and might not even have originated
> from an email system. If we are talking about "an email" as a digital
> product and associated timestamped mail server logs from several mail
> systems, including sender and recipient, correlated with logon information
> from corporate servers, things start to take on a bit more credibility
> (though as Adrian points out there are still many ways in which this can be
> produced fraudulently)
>
> However we need to compare this to the "signed letter". This relies
> on the notion that the signature is somehow unique and validates the content
> in the letter. This is clearly a big assumption in this century - for
> example it would take very little time to concoct a letter conferring you
> with a knighthood and attach this signature
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Elizabeth_II_Signature.svg. Traditional
> letters carry few or none of the multiple points of verification that a
> complete collection of email data can contain.
>
> There is a bit of a discussion about conditions of admissibility,
> rules of evidence and what constitutes a record of information in
> http://www.naa.gov.au/images/records%20in%20evidence%20in%20word%20format%20for%20website%5B1%5D_tcm2-7936.pdfand you will see that it can apply to an email. In effect, email as a
> technology appears to have no special status over other formats of
> communication.
>
> The short answer is that there is probably no short answer!
>
> As with most legal questions, legal advice should be sought, but
> lawyers seem to like to deal with specifics rather than generalisations so
> you may not get a clean answer. A lot of useful class discussion could come
> out of it though.
>
> kp
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 2:01 PM, ATKINSON-BUCK, Damien <
> Damien.ATKINSON-BUCK at ivanhoe.com.au> wrote:
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I've been asked to have a look at a friend's
> email policy - the preamble into it got me a little flustered and I'm just
> trying to work out the legitimacy of the statement "Email carries the same
> legal status as a signed letter or memo." I've had a look in the
> telecommunications act and the postal act but cannot find it. I'm wondering
> if anyone out there knows if this statement is pure smoke or not.
>
> Thanks
>
> Damien
>
>
>
> Damien Atkinson-Buck
> Member of Academic Staff (Secondary)
>
> p:
>
> +61 3 9490 3848
>
> f:
>
> +61 3 9490 3490
>
> e:
>
> damien.atkinson-buck at ivanhoe.com.au <mailto:
> damien.atkinson-buck at ivanhoe.com.au>
>
> w:
>
> http://myivanhoe.net <http://myivanhoe.net/>
>
> The Ridgeway Campus
> PO Box 91 The Ridgeway
> Ivanhoe Victoria
> 3079 Australia
>
>
> <http://myivanhoe.net/>
>
>
> <http://myivanhoe.net/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dr Ken Price MACS ACCE Professional Associate.
> President, TASITE
>
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> --
> Roland Gesthuizen - ICT Coordinator - Westall Secondary College
> http://www.westallsc.vic.edu.au <http://www.westallsc.vic.edu.au/>
>
> "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
> change the world; indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret
> Mead
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--
Roland Gesthuizen - ICT Coordinator - Westall Secondary College
http://www.westallsc.vic.edu.au
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change
the world; indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead
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