[Year 12 IT Apps] What Future IT? (Charmaine Taylor)
Robyn Dunn
robyn at camhigh.vic.edu.au
Thu Oct 4 23:23:52 EST 2007
'm going to disappear back into the Maths LA. I've really enjoyed teaching IT. We'll still have a few classes next year but the future isn't looking good. It will be interesting having IT in schools without any IT teachers. When I first started teaching in Warnambool in 1978 I shared a house with a very nice girl who taught shorthand and typing. Hi Linda if you are still out there. I guess some subjects just disappear.
Ms Robyn Dunn
ICT Co-Ordinator
Camberwell High School
email: du at camhigh.vic.edu.au
phone: 98360555
fax: 98360194
Please consider carefully before printing this email.
>>> "Robert Hind" <robert at yinnar.com> 10/04/07 6:18 PM >>>
My wife asked me to ask you "What language is this written in?"
Robert Hind (Semi-retired)
Ex Traralgon and Ashwood
----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Forster
To: itapps at edulists.com.au
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] What Future IT? (Charmaine Taylor)
Bill
engagement != learning != constructivism
Just the existence if engagement does not mean good learning. Engagement is a precursor to good learning. Engagement is best achieved through a relevant and authentic challenge and the right tools which give "flow" or a "Balance between ability level and challenge " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_%28psychology%29
What is being engaged in must require worthwhile learning. The students must have sufficient competency in the domain, often achieved through direct instruction, to meet the challenge.
Constructivism is a little different. Learners must construct their own understandings in their own way. Multiple representations of the subject help learners assemble their own internal mental models of the subject. Good constructivist learning is engaging because it can induce the rewarding psychological sensation of "flow".
You quote http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/post/PLNK14F2YOSI9OWBM
where the results for situated learning were comparable even though the class was more engaged .
This still leaves the questions: what was being tested and are we really testing for the outcomes we want?
Education generally tests for the outcomes that are easy to measure rather than the outcomes that are desired. Higher order outcomes (in Blooms Taxonomy) are generally harder to define and harder to measure. We want to produce versatile thinkers and problem solvers but the tests were not measuring this. The Nintendo group may have had better outcomes in the higher order skills but the testing described is unlikely to measure this.
Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Kerr
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Cc: Tony Forster ; Artichoke
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] What Future IT? (Charmaine Taylor)
I was holding off from commenting here but it seems that not everyone has gone into holiday mode, so I'll say something.
If we look at this list:
- motivation
- engagement
- inclusive learning
- discovery learning
- constructivism
- constructionism
I don't think these terms mean the same thing but at least some are being used interchangeably
Most of the recent research I have seen is in the opposite direction of what Charmaine says -
"Fantastic example of constructivist learning Keith! It's what the recent educational research has discovered is needed to engage students so that they achieve better learning"
eg. I wrote a response to one such study that claimed that minimal guidance during instruction does not work - but there are many such studies around
http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2006/10/minimal-guidance-during-instruction..html
(link in that blog to a critical discussion about discovery learning - wag the dog entry on artichokes blog)
I would like there to be a smooth connection between increased motivation / engagement and increased learning but the research history suggests to me that it is far from smooth - this includes the old logo research
It could be that motivation increases but learning does not necessarily increase or is equivalent or is less cf an instructionist scenario. It's nice when students are motivated but how do we really know that long term learning has increased?
I think the research undertaken by the game maker cluster showed increases in motivation, fun, engagement for some (not all) students but we didn't really produce any hard evidence about increased learning - some anecdotal yes, hard evidence, no
Here is a post from mark guzdial
http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/post/PLNK14F2YOSI9OWBM
about a parallel study comparable to keith's- two ways of teaching intro to computer systems, one formal and one real life - the results for the learning were comparable even though the real life class was more engaged
I support constructionist learning in theory and practice but think we need to be careful not to make wholesale claims for fuzzy "discovery learning". These issues are complex, there is good and bad "discovery learning". When the evidence is *not* forthcoming for extravagent claims then that actually acts as fuel for those pushing the opposite agenda - back to basics instructionism.
--
Bill Kerr
http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/
On 9/28/07, Roland Gesthuizen <rgesthuizen at gmail.com > wrote:
Too right Kevork! There is a lot to be said for constructivist learning, generating and using data that the students have "real ownership' of. .. my lot struggled through charting last year until I let them develop a plan for their school formal. It was fascinating to watch the school captain walk about the room, correcting the other plans to keep them on time and on budget. It was her job to actually organise the 'real' senior student formal and in the process she was able to recruit some helpers. For our practice outcomes we covered the Scout Mudbash and the chap who ran the local pizza shop next to our school.
Of course, as eductors it doesnt mean that we sit back and watch. We still have a very important role to structure discussions, dig up supporting resources and give the odd tap on the steering wheel to get things back on track.
Regards Roland
On 28/09/2007, Kevork Krozian < Kroset at novell1.fhc.vic.edu.au> wrote:
Hi Guys,
Fabulous examples from Charmaine and Keith ..!!!
Couldn't agree more !
I am the last living IPM teacher at my school and I had struggled with Project Management in terms of engagement. The students didn't need to build a house or landscape a block of land but they did want to go on a schoolies holiday at the end of the year !
So we had as our project aim " organising the schoolies holiday". Some of the tasks included:
1. Selecting members of the group to holiday together
2. Deciding on a location for the holiday
3. Selecting a property at which to stay
4. Collecting money for a deposit
5. Signing the lease/contract
6. etc etc
It seemed to really fire them up so there it is again. Engagement when it is relevant or they have a direct input in the process and the direction of the learning.
PS . Will this encourage you to perhaps put off your retirement Keith ??!!
Take Care
Kevork
>>> Charmaine Taylor < tigeroz at alphalink.com.au > 27/09/2007 9:02 pm >>>
Fantastic example of constructivist learning Keith! It's what the
recent educational research has discovered is needed to engage students
so that they achieve better learning. We need more of this.
Charmaine Taylor
Keith Richardson wrote:
>Charmaine - your voice is like music in my ears! "...from the point of
>view of the problem to be solved..." is the secret to highly motivated
>behaviour across all subject areas, not just computing.
>Here is a specific example that will make my point:
>I tried an interesting parallel experiment with my two Yr 7 science
>classes.
>With the first I designed a logical series of practical experiments
>involving measurement, mathematical calculations, graphing of results
>all investigating the operation of levers. I thought the design was
>fantastic, but the kids did not get involved at all. "Boring!" was their
>verdict.
>With the second class, I showed them a desktop-trebuchet I had made and
>challenged them to design and build one themselves that would throw a
>small rubber ring over 3 metres. They were given a period and heaps of
>equipment to select from. Periodically I stopped them to discuss safety
>telling them that over the centuries of use many trebuchet operators
>were killed, and I did not want to add to the number here! The classes
>enthusiasm was staggering, and I enjoyed watching them make mistake
>after mistake but edging towards success as they worked at making a
>LEVER solve this problem for them. I guarantee that their instinctive
>understanding of how to make use of a lever will stay with them for
>life, and many of them will make actual use of this wisdom in the
>future.
>
>So, Charmaine, I agree with you.
>
>Regards, Keith
>Keith Richardson
>
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--
Roland Gesthuizen - ICT Coordinator - Westall Secondary College
http://www.westallsc.vic.edu.au
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead _______________________________________________
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