[Informatics] Mathematics and ICT

Wed Jul 19 12:26:44 AEST 2017

On the issue of student persistence:

Several years ago I attended a maths PD session after work and we were told
of research that showed quite clearly that
1. our Australian students had very short persistence times when solving
problems and
2. this was essentially our fault as teachers because we tended to butt in
and provide the solution far too quickly.

Certainly this is partly a result of the crowded curriculum and partly a
result of (community) expectations that we should teach the students "how to
do it".

Robert Hind
Ex Traralgon and Ashwood
Retired

  _____  

From: informatics-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:informatics-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Garth, Lucas A
Sent: Wednesday, 19 July 2017 11:35 AM
To: Year 12 VCE Informatics Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Informatics] Mathematics and ICT

Hi Robert

You could use this resource using Python whose turtle app is nearly exactly
the same as Logo just with a few tweaks - but then gives the option of an
extension to a future general purpose programming language.

https://hourofpython.trinket.io/a-visual-introduction-to-python#/welcome/an-
hour-of-code

I know it's not the point but it's where we will probably go with our Year
7s in the future.

On the example of the Year 7 "not being good at coding", an issue is
possibly that students aren't as great at problem solving because we as
teachers do too much of the work for them.  Because we have lost resilience
in our students to persevere and "find the right answer" in the time
honoured manner, often because of the curriculum crowding mentioned here, we
can become tempted to just spoon feed workings and answers to our students.
More's the pity.

Lucas Garth

Lalor Secondary College

From: informatics-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:informatics-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Robert
Timmer-Arends
Sent: Tuesday, 18 July 2017 6:26 PM
To: Year 12 VCE Informatics Teachers' Mailing List
<informatics at edulists.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Informatics] Mathematics and ICT

Hello Chay

I teach Y7 Maths and the first thing I want to say was how angry I was at
seeing that bullet point creep in when the curriculum changed from AusVELS
to VicCurric. Not only does it further crowd the curriculum as you say, but
it also adds yet another explicit checkbox that has to be covered that
should be a teaching technique, not a thing to be taught in itself.

Last year I used Microworlds (slightly dated but for various reasons to do
with teaching Maths rather than programming, a better option, and its the
Logo language and directional turtle that is the important thing, not so
much the environment). Anyhow, the application is Geometry. I started with
fd, rt, showed them how the turtle carried a pen (pd, pu) and then
challenged them to draw a square of 100 units  As each finished, I upped the
ante by asking them to draw an equilateral triangle (no other triangle was
allowed), and as each finished I added another side. By the end of a period
all had achieved at least a triangle, but many were well beyond. We then
talked about patterns. (For the fast learners, the final challenge was a
circle.)

Then I showed them repeat, then procedures (or actually, teaching the turtle
'how to'), ... The final challenge after two lessons was for them to write a
procedure(s) which would draw a honeycomb. Lots of algorithmic thinking
without the word being mentioned. More importantly, lots of concrete
geometric problem-solving.

Toward the end of last term I tried Scratch - nowhere near as good for this
sort of thing, so I'm switching back to Microworlds.

Finally, is Logo a 'general purpose language' ? Frankly, I don't care. I
think having a statement like that in the Maths curriculum is BS, especially
at Year 7. No offence VCAA Maths people, but what were you thinking???

BTW, for Computing teachers, one of the other things that's come to light,
was when starting work with Scratch one of my students said 'I'm not good at
coding'. Alarms bells ringing. By putting it so explicitly in the curriculum
(maybe through DigiTech at primary school), students are being taught to
'code' as opposed to being taught how to solve problems (which just happen
to include coding), and as early as primary school we may already be
switching them off! DTLV please take note.

Sorry for the rant.

Regards

Robert T-A

----- Original Message ----- 

From:  <mailto:chaylycheng at gmail.com> Chay Ly Cheng 

To:  <mailto:yr11it at edulists.com.au> Year 11 Information Technology
Teachers' Mailing List ;  <mailto:informatics at edulists.com.au> Year 12 VCE
Informatics Teachers' Mailing List 

Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 1:00 PM

Subject: [Informatics] Mathematics and ICT

Hi, 

Just throwing a question out there - if you are a math teacher as well (or
familiar with it).

The math curriculum indicates that students are to design and implement
algorithm using a general purpose language. Level of knowledge varies from
Year 7 - 10.

I was wondering if there are any schools currently doing this in math
classes?
Or is it specifically in Digiitech/Computing Classes.

If it is being implemented in Math class, may you please give me a run down
on what is covered and 'done' for this part of the "already overcrowded math
curriculum"?

Thanks.

-- 

Kind regards 

Chay Ly Cheng :)

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