[Informatics] Mathematics and ICT

[Garth, Lucas A]

Hi Robert
You could use this resource using Python whose turtle app is nearly exactly the same as Logo just with a few tweaks – but then gives the option of an extension to a future general purpose programming language.

https://hourofpython.trinket.io/a-visual-introduction-to-python#/welcome/an-hour-of-code

I know it’s not the point but it’s where we will probably go with our Year 7s in the future.

On the example of the Year 7 “not being good at coding”, an issue is possibly that students aren’t as great at problem solving because we as teachers do too much of the work for them.  Because we have lost resilience in our students to persevere and “find the right answer” in the time honoured manner, often because of the curriculum crowding mentioned here, we can become tempted to just spoon feed workings and answers to our students. More’s the pity.

Lucas Garth
Lalor Secondary College

From: informatics-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:informatics-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Robert Timmer-Arends
Sent: Tuesday, 18 July 2017 6:26 PM
To: Year 12 VCE Informatics Teachers' Mailing List <informatics at edulists.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Informatics] Mathematics and ICT

Hello Chay

I teach Y7 Maths and the first thing I want to say was how angry I was at seeing that bullet point creep in when the curriculum changed from AusVELS to VicCurric. Not only does it further crowd the curriculum as you say, but it also adds yet another explicit checkbox that has to be covered that should be a teaching technique, not a thing to be taught in itself.
Last year I used Microworlds (slightly dated but for various reasons to do with teaching Maths rather than programming, a better option, and its the Logo language and directional turtle that is the important thing, not so much the environment). Anyhow, the application is Geometry. I started with fd, rt, showed them how the turtle carried a pen (pd, pu) and then challenged them to draw a square of 100 units  As each finished, I upped the ante by asking them to draw an equilateral triangle (no other triangle was allowed), and as each finished I added another side. By the end of a period all had achieved at least a triangle, but many were well beyond. We then talked about patterns. (For the fast learners, the final challenge was a circle.)
Then I showed them repeat, then procedures (or actually, teaching the turtle 'how to'), ... The final challenge after two lessons was for them to write a procedure(s) which would draw a honeycomb. Lots of algorithmic thinking without the word being mentioned. More importantly, lots of concrete geometric problem-solving.
Toward the end of last term I tried Scratch - nowhere near as good for this sort of thing, so I'm switching back to Microworlds.
Finally, is Logo a 'general purpose language' ? Frankly, I don't care. I think having a statement like that in the Maths curriculum is BS, especially at Year 7. No offence VCAA Maths people, but what were you thinking???
BTW, for Computing teachers, one of the other things that's come to light, was when starting work with Scratch one of my students said 'I'm not good at coding'. Alarms bells ringing. By putting it so explicitly in the curriculum (maybe through DigiTech at primary school), students are being taught to 'code' as opposed to being taught how to solve problems (which just happen to include coding), and as early as primary school we may already be switching them off! DTLV please take note.

Sorry for the rant.

Regards
Robert T-A
----- Original Message -----
From: Chay Ly Cheng<mailto:chaylycheng at gmail.com>
To: Year 11 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List<mailto:yr11it at edulists.com.au> ; Year 12 VCE Informatics Teachers' Mailing List<mailto:informatics at edulists.com.au>
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 1:00 PM
Subject: [Informatics] Mathematics and ICT

Hi,

Just throwing a question out there - if you are a math teacher as well (or familiar with it).

The math curriculum indicates that students are to design and implement algorithm using a general purpose language. Level of knowledge varies from Year 7 - 10.

I was wondering if there are any schools currently doing this in math classes?
Or is it specifically in Digiitech/Computing Classes.

If it is being implemented in Math class, may you please give me a run down on what is covered and 'done' for this part of the "already overcrowded math curriculum"?

Thanks.




--
Kind regards

Chay Ly Cheng :)

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