[Yr7-10it] Yr7-10it Digest, Vol 131, Issue 11

[Ziad Baroudi]

I would like to add an "appeal to authority" by saying that I read a Q&A
with Mark Zuckerberg in which a parent asked for advice on what language to
teach their kid. He said something like: "You can't go wrong  with Python".

Happy new year to all of you and your families.

Cheers ,
Ziad

On 30 Dec 2016 8:07 pm, "Roland Gesthuizen" <rgesthuizen at gmail.com> wrote:

> G’day Mel,
>
> Just a thought before the new year kicks in. My experience is that Visual
> Basic will just scare kids away.
>
> Python has many real-world uses - anything from natural language
> processing to website backends, to machine learning to face detection to
> image processing to music to animation to being used by companies like
> Google and NASA. It isn't so much training a student for a career using
> that technology, but using something that's *in fashion, *current, and
> cool (I guess that as a space junkie, I am a tad biased)
>
> How about something embedded? The BBC Micro:bits work with Python -
> they're shiny, fun, cheap, and really exciting and easy to get going,
> Raspberry Pis are a bit more heavy duty, but that's not necessarily a bad
> thing!  https://www.microbit.co.uk or https://www.raspberrypi.
> org/blog/compute-module-cubesats/ for more cool space science stuff than
> you can poke a stick at. When I discussed this with a friend, she added
> that there's lots of technology to cover HTML and CSS and, say, a Python
> backend, or a bit of javascript. She recommended that you check out
> BitBalloon http://www.bitbaloon.com
>
> Just my 2 cents worth. I had my girls programming with both at year 10 and
> they got really excited about using this tech and keen to study IT next
> year. Everybody have a well earned and lovely summer break. See you back in
> 2017 :-)
>
> --
>
> *Roland GESTHUIZEN*http://about.me/rgesthuizen
>
> On 16 Dec 2016, at 10:02 am, Mel Yuan <melyuan at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Lucas et al,
>
> So much to talk about!
>
> 2 other things that are guiding my thinking about pathways are:
>
> - VCE Computing U1&2 they don’t have to code HTML. The web outcome is U1O3
> “Communication & Collaboration” and this is where they do their group
> project and learn project management. Also a good outcome to do UI, content
> design and “Issues in IS”.
> - VCE Software Development U3&4 they don’t need to (shouldn’t?) code
> against a database. The SD subject with a SAT is absolutely gigantic so all
> they need to do it to read/ write from/ to a file which could be TXT, CSV,
> XML
>
> You’ve inspired me to look more into VCE Informatics U3&4, which I didn’t
> teach this year. I took VCE U1&2 which is 50% Informatics. Course is: U1O1
> Graphics (Google Forms, Sheets/ Excel, Piktochart (or similar)), then U2O2
> Data Visualisation (Excel, Sheets) then U2O3 Data Management (Access), if
> you do it in order.
>
> Cheers, Mel
>
>
> On 14 Dec 2016, at 10:48 pm, Garth, Lucas A <garth.lucas.a at edumail.vic.
> gov.au> wrote:
>
> Hi Mel, Ken, Richard and everyone following either on/off list.
>
> I agree, good discussion and worth thinking through.
>
> At my school we're still in the planning of Digitech so it's a helpful
> place to be. Next year I will implement Year 10 and our other Year 9
> electives will remain untouched (for now...).  In 2018 I'll be setting up
> resources to allow for 7&8 Digital, but it may even be until 2019 before it
> gets implemented due to pesky things known as curriculum reviews - meaning
> we may well be locked into no Digital at 7 and 8 until the review is
> complete.  I'm confident of a 2018-19 launch though.
>
> At the moment the plan is: 40 lessons at 7 (all students), 40 lessons at 8
> (all students), have a business based Year 9 elective, a multimedia based
> Year 9 elective, (maybe a eyes only game design or hacking Year 9
> elective), and then year 10 Digital (elective).  At Year 9 and 10 there is
> no plans for core subject work although there is scope to work in with the
> Year 9 cross-curricular subject that runs for the year and cover a few
> progression points.
>
> Mel, your comment on Python is spot on in terms of "you can't guarantee
> students to be using a programming language". The key for me with Python is
> the preparation for Informatics data extraction (Beautiful Soup is a handy
> module) and the overall role of data analyst which I don't think is going
> away any time soon, and knowledge of Python or R in this area seems a very
> helpful skillset to have. I've also seen some of the Raspberry Pi resources
> for Python and think they're not going away and may be more friendly for
> teachers who haven't taught in this area before.  A quick example (bit
> sketchy but covers the basics) is found at: https://www.raspberrypi.org/
> learning/python-intro/ and  http://goo.gl/0ZDOdX
>
> I'm not running SD at the moment, and that might factor into thinking
> through the use of JavaScript, for nothing more than the fact that if
> students know how to use front-end (e.g. JS), back-end (e.g. Python/PHP),
> web design (HTML/CSS) and database languages (SQL), even to a prototyping
> level, then they're going to get as broad an exposure as I'm happy giving.
>
> As I'm more the analyst type of IT teacher (and we've got limited
> experience in IT for other teachers at my school), I'm not getting into the
> mobile app development area IN CLASSES.  That will be reserved for code
> club which will run weekly and I'll encourage this area as a side project.
> I'm not as experienced particularly with the need to have a focus on two
> main dev areas (Android/IOS) and we can have fun learning together.
>
> I've tried Processing as part of the Khan Academy course teaching
> "Javascript".  The issue I found is their documentation is a bit dry
> compared with Python and there wasn't as much web-based support or
> tutorials, and it wasn't quite as easy as with Javascript itself to
> implement into a website. Students enjoyed the animation side of the Khan
> Course which uses ProcessingJS. It was easier than that for codecademy
> which has got worse ever since it's tried to shamelessly monetise.
> https://www.khanacademy.org/computing/computer-programming/programming
> This course is a great grounding in general coding principles and I'd
> recommend it to middle years students for sure. It's a shame that much of
> the Digitech curric only really allows for a 4-5 week coding hit before you
> need to look at other aspects (digital systems, security, design
> principles, collecting and analysing data, web dev)
>
> Hence with only 4-5 weeks scope that's why you desperately need a code
> club if you want to have the students retain interest and build skills over
> a longer period.
>
> There was a question "Would you teach all Year 8s Python?" - you bet!
> This will be just the basics, similar to the link provided earlier but just
> a taste that's away from the drag and drop of Scratch. I guess my hope is
> that all students leave the 7Digital and 8Digital subjects with an ability
> to code a website (not just use a CMS) and create a working computer
> program that uses logic.
> There's some quite interesting and well targeted resources on the RPi
> website for teachers, but most of them would require the use of a class set
> of Pi's to be worth it.
> https://www.raspberrypi.org/resources/learn/
>
> As a side note, at some stage at either VCE or some Year 10 extension work
> I'm keen on creating graphical outputs and analysis documents out of
> https://developers.google.com/chart/interactive/docs/
> There are ways that students can use Google Sheets as effectively a
> database that can be polled and then have graphics updated. With the
> ability to use Google Forms to populate these sheets, students are able to
> create real time changing graphics that aren't just embedded (which is the
> way I teach it now) into a HTML page, but they can be fully customised.
> Hosting is largely irrelevant if we're just teaching skills.
>
> I know there's a lot there but hopefully someone finds the links and
> discussion useful.
>
> Lucas
> Lalor SC
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 02:46:37 +0000
> From: Mel Yuan <melyuan at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Yr7-10it] coding in 2017
> To: "Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List"
> <yr7-10it at edulists.com.au>
> Message-ID: <0ADE3CA8-0AC2-489F-A1EB-C8EC60C37BDB at hotmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi,
>
> Great discussion.
>
> I think sticking to 1 language through the pathway is very attractive. You
> get critical mass of resources and expertise - but do you find the 1
> language is then limiting to students? concept of programming and the
> diversity of languages? Can they abstract programming ideas out of the
> specific language? I know there are y12 SoftDev places that use it, but I
> see you are using it for Informatics? That?s new to me.
>
> The struggle I have with Python, which your pathway deals with, is the
> need to do HTML. Doing HTML/JavaScript and possibly adding on PHP (or
> Python) seems like a lot of groundwork to get to actually making something.
> Not to mention the hassle of web servers, etc.  At this point, I have Y7/8s
> doing some HTML, really just for interest, in the web unit, but coding
> would be Alice/GameMaker.
>
> I don?t think we can set students up for career programming in a specific
> language though. My last industry job (2012) was a transaction website and
> we had stuff in Java and Python, but my husband works in Ruby now and the
> top rates I?ve ever paid for programmers were at the start of iOS Cocoa
> Touch (now superseded). It?s a changing world out there ?
>
> Thanks Ken for the lead on Processing. (Yet another from MIT!!) There is
> amazing work happening out there on educational and purpose-built software.
> So much to choose from!  A key choice for me is also the quality of
> existing teaching materials. Not to sound lazy but this makes me prefer
> Alice 2 over Alice 3 (for example) because there is a significant
> investment in classroom stuff ready to go.
>
> At the moment I am trying to set-up Y7/8 for revised electives in Y9/10.
> In time, I am hoping to do a Y9/10 elective in programming using either
> code.org<http://code.org> AppLab or Visual Basic (maybe App Inventor?)
> plus an elective on pre-VCE Informatics incorporating VCE Computing U1&2
> informatics content (Access databases). There is no guarantee the school
> would ever offer VCE Computing 3/4 units, but I would like to make sure the
> Y9/10 electives are clear pre-VCE choices.
>
> Cheers, Mel
>
>
>
> On 13 Dec 2016, at 10:52 pm, Garth, Lucas A <garth.lucas.a at edumail.vic.
> gov.au<mailto:garth.lucas.a at edumail.vic.gov.au>> wrote:
>
> HI Mel (& other interested onlookers)
>
> At the moment I'm looking at having Python installed as our main
> programming language at Lalor Secondary College.
>
> The reasons:
> - It's likely to be high paying - sample: http://tech.co/highest-paying-
> programming-languages-2015-03
> - There are heaps of online resources including codecademy
> - It taps in to Raspberry Pi (they were created to facilitate the teaching
> of Python)
> - Programming language isn't the hardest to learn the basics (though
> admittedly not quite as easy as VB IMO)
> - Integration of turtle program into maths
> - National Code Challenge by GROK Learning is in Python
> - Feeds into Computing/Informatics nicely through the use of Beautiful
> Soup extracts (and Panda data analysis)
>
> Python's downsides:
> - Needs to be installed on every computer (therefore get an image) or else
> you go with a limited pythonanywhere.com<http://pythonanywhere.com> and
> rely on decent quality internet...might be a struggle in most govt
> schools...
> - Limited front-end development, unless you also teach a framework (which
> I think you probably should teach your students if they are going to go
> into a developer career - I'll be teaching my students HTML + CSS +
> Bootstrap to give them a good grounding for the web).  As I'm generally a
> better back-end developer, I prefer teaching basic ASCII art initially for
> the students to gain a concept of graphics, though I've also taught
> students a little bit of the Flask framework and it looked fairly
> straight-forward.
>
> How I'm planning to insert this into the curriculum (2017-2018)
>
> Year 7 - Limited programming in Digitech, however there will be teaching
> HTML/CSS and use of a CMS (e.g. Weebly / Wordpress). Maybe some basic
> Python if we are to link Raspberry Pi computers together with an Ethernet
> cable. Maths needs use of a general purpose programming language and I'm
> encouraging the use of the Turtle app in Python, which is based on the Logo
> programming language for the more experienced teachers on list.
>
> Year 8 - Programming basics in Python. Use of mBots (with Scratch-like
> mBlock code structure) for a short sequence of more hands-on coding.
>
> Year 9 - Include Python programming in unit on game design using Pygame
> resources.
>
> Year 10 - Data extraction and manipulation using Python.  Show the basics
> of Bootstrap alongside consolidation of HTML/CSS skills. Use of Grove
> Starter Kits for Arduino for hands-on coding.
>
> Year 11 - NCSS CHALLENGE - GROK competition - Python. Bootstrap usage for
> web development SAC. Learn SQL for databases.
>
> Year 12 - Encourage the use of Python (data extraction) and Bootstrap
> (data presentation) for Informatics SAT, and SQL for databases SAC.
>
>
> Now - to develop the resources! Let me know if you've already headed down
> this rabbit hole!
>
> Lucas Garth
> Lalor SC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:yr7-10it-bounces@
> edulists.com.au> [mailto:yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of
> yr7-10it-request at edulists.com.au<mailto:yr7-10it-request at edulists.com.au>
> Sent: Monday, 12 December 2016 2:54 PM
> To: yr7-10it at edulists.com.au<mailto:yr7-10it at edulists.com.au>
> Subject: Yr7-10it Digest, Vol 131, Issue 6
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: coding in 2017 (Mel Yuan)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 03:52:48 +0000
> From: Mel Yuan <melyuan at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Yr7-10it] coding in 2017
> To: "Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List"
> <yr7-10it at edulists.com.au>
> Message-ID: <A05757CD-6650-47ED-9E00-2323557005AE at hotmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi,
>
> I?m glad someone raised this language pathway issue.
>
> The problem is ? exactly what general-purpose programming language?
> Unfortunately most programming languages are pretty specific. JavaScript is
> oft-cited but this is not really a stand-alone language in the way, say,
> Visual Basic is designed to be. The Khan Academy and code.org<
> http://code.org> teaching materials are great but they?re really
> providing a whole environment and therefore purpose for JS - something the
> language itself was not really designed for.
>
> Alice is designed to be object-oriented, so I?m happy these ideas could be
> introduced at 7/8. If you were really keen you could use Alice 3 and
> transition into Java. GameMaker for 7/8 also works for me as you have to
> build up a conceptual model of ?what is a game??. In the next generation of
> the 9/10 elective I?m also flirting with the idea of Visual Basic because
> you can include ideas of Application Architecture (n layers). Microsoft has
> some pretty good pricing for things like Team Server for Education packages
> - getting students into Visual Studio IDE with Team Server source control,
> now that is starting to look like real programming! I know Python has its
> fans at year 12 ?
>
> I take your point about Scratch. I think it?s okay if everyone does it
> year 1 but would like to have something different perhaps in year 2 at Y6.
>
> https://madmaker.com.au/ came to our school to use Arduino to teach Y9s
> programming. I see this as okay in year 1 but once you get a few students
> through you need to start building projects with more stuff. Someone told
> me about the sensor packs, etc. you can get for Edison boards. I think
> these projects require a fair bit of investment in equipment. More so that
> straight-up programming which can be done on existing gear, cheap or free ?
>
> Over time I hope these descriptors become more, well, descriptive, in
> terms of programming ideas rather than using languages as a proxy.
>
> Compliments of the season all!
>
> Cheers, Mel
>
>
>
> On 12 Dec 2016, at 1:32 pm, Grieve, Carlin C <grieve.carlin.c at edumail.vic.
> gov.au<mailto:grieve.carlin.c at edumail.vic.gov.au>> wrote:
>
> Good work Mel,
>
> Overall I think the learning path is the part that is the most important.
> You need to ensure that student capacity is built on each year, as it helps
> the students (As well as the staff ? ) Looks like you have this under
> control!
> Having different environments (IDE?s) is always a good thing too, so
> students do not get hooked on the idea ?I can only program in scratch?
> Ken was right in ensuring it meets the need of the curriculum though.
> ?        Yr5/6 Band: Develop digital solutions as simple visual programs
> (VCDTCD033)<http://victoriancurriculum.vcaa.vic.edu.au/Curriculum/
> ContentDescription/VCDTCD033>
> ?        Yr7/8 Band: ? using a general-purpose programming language
> (VCDTCD043)<http://victoriancurriculum.vcaa.vic.edu.au/Curriculum/
> ContentDescription/VCDTCD043>
> ?        Yr9/10 Band: ? using an object-oriented programming
> language(VCDTCD053)<http://victoriancurriculum.vcaa.vic.edu.au/Curriculum/
> ContentDescription/VCDTCD053>
>
> I am interested in what you do with Arduino?s at Year 8 though, as my
> first implementation failed big time (Expectations vs Reality)
>
>
> Kind Regards,
> <image001.png>
>
>
>
>
> Carlin Grieve
> Learning Technologies Leading Teacher
> Epping Secondary College
> T: +61 3 9401 2599 <+61%203%209401%202599>
> W:www.eppingsc.vic.edu.au<http://www.eppingsc.vic.edu.au/>
>
>
>
>
> From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au<mailto:yr7-10it-bounces@
> edulists.com.au> [mailto:yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of
> ken price
> Sent: Monday, 12 December 2016 1:13 PM
> To: Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List <
> yr7-10it at edulists.com.au<mailto:yr7-10it at edulists.com.au>>
> Subject: Re: [Yr7-10it] Fwd: coding in 2017
>
> Doesn't year 7-10 require a general purpose programming language? (based
> on Aust Curric Digital Technologies)
>
> kp
>
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Mel Yuan <melyuan at hotmail.com<mailto:me
> lyuan at hotmail.com>> wrote:
> Hi folks,
> Didn?t get much response from the Primary folks, per below ? what do you
> guys think?
> Considering putting MS Touch Develop in somewhere too ? anyone had
> experience with this? Microsoft have invested in a fair bit of curriculum
> materials.
>
> We?re doing some Robotics/Systems as well - Y4 Blue Bots, Y6 Makey Makey,
> Y7 Mindstorm, Y8 Arduino.
>
> Cheers, Mel
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: Mel Yuan <melyuan at hotmail.com<mailto:melyuan at hotmail.com>>
> Subject: coding in 2017
> Date: 9 December 2016 7:35:37 am AEDT
> To: primaryit at edulists.com.au<mailto:primaryit at edulists.com.au>
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am starting a new role next year in DigiTech 4-10, having taught 8, 11,
> 12 (SoftDev) this year. The school has a new program, having offered
> compulsory IT in years 7-8 for some years.
>
> This is my current plan for coding in 2017 with a view to strengthening
> pathways over time. I?d be interested in your thoughts - do you do the same
> or different? Have a missed a language that is a must-have?
>
> I?m thinking that code.org<http://code.org/> is the theoretical
> ?backbone? that teaches concepts, and the other language is something they
> can make stuff with.
>
> Y4 - code.org<http://code.org/> Course 2, Scratch
> Y5 - code.org<http://code.org/> Course 2/3, Scratch
> Y6 - code.org<http://code.org/> Course 2/3/4, Scratch
> Y7 - code.org<http://code.org/> Accelerated Course 2-4, Alice 2
> Y8 - code.org<http://code.org/> Accelerated Course 2-4, GameMaker
> Y9/10 elective - code.org<http://code.org/> CSP course 3 AppLab, elective
> language (Scratch, Alice, GameMaker or other for project)
>
> It?s a small school and when the cohort grows, current students can keep
> progressing through code.org<http://code.org/> while new students start
> at Course 2 or Accelerated.
>
> Cheers, Mel
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> --
> --
> Dr Ken Price MACS(Snr) CP ACCE Professional Associate.
> Immediate Past President, TASITE http://www.tasite.tas.edu.au<h
> ttp://www.tasite.tas.edu.au/>
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> Authority and
> http://www.vitta.org.au  - VITTA Victorian Information Technology
> Teachers Association Inc
> http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools - Swinburne University
>
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