[Yr7-10it] Scratch, Gamemaker, VB.net, Python, PHP and MySQL - Programming for all levels

[Russell Edwards]

On 19/09/2007, at 12:31 PM, Alida Bonotto wrote:
> I have problems with some of the ideas here! I agree that  
> programming teaches students transferable cognitive skills (and  
> keeps the VELS Thinking Processes Domain happy) but how do you sell  
> this to students?  I strongly believe that you need to give  
> students sound, convincing reasons as to why they are required to  
> study something - you have to convince them that it is worth their  
> while. I have seen teachers give students the nebulous "it improves  
> your thinking skills" argument and it's fallen totally flat.

I know it falls flat with students, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.  
Sometimes children need to take adults' word for things; that's what  
makes them children.

> I have explicitly taught thinking philosophies - and it has worked  
> because I could relate them to the students' real life experiences  
> and so convinced them that they were learning valuable skills. You  
> can sell Habits of Mind, CoRT thinking, etc much more easily to  
> students than the lofty "it improves your thinking skills" line.  
> Students don't mind being trained in "how to think", as long as it  
> is done in steps that they can understand, that relate to the real  
> world, that they can achieve and see as being worthwhile (and it's  
> a whole school approach - but that's another story).

hehe, I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, but I really  
think the idea of "training" people explicitly in how to think is  
deeply flawed. Thinking is an unconscious process (though I remember  
as a child suffering from stack overflow after recursing infinitely,  
thinking about the fact that I'm thinking about the fact that I'm  
thinking about the fact that....).  You don't train for unconscious  
activities with conscious actions. For example, you don't teach motor  
skills by giving a recipe for kicking a football.

   1) relax gluteus maximus
   2) tense muscle whateverus
   3) rotate knee
   4) ....

It sort of reminds me of the Monty Python instructions for "how to  
play the flute" ("You blow there and you move your fingers up and  
down here.").   You can achieve a crude facsimile of the act by  
creating a conscious aping of it, but the real thing must be learned  
indirectly, _via_ the intellect not _by_ the intellect. Thinking is a  
creative process, and at higher levels an inspirational process.

> Russell states "don't stress out about externalities : "what they  
> need to know" to get a job, succeed at uni, whatever." - but that  
> is exactly what many students consider. We can downplay it as much  
> as we like, but they won't. So rather than shoving it under the  
> carpet we are better off asking - how do we work with it so that  
> it's in our favour?

I tend to think that year 11 is about the earliest that  students  
should be considering shifting from "enjoyable learning" to "useful  
learning".   So I'd answer by saying that we should offer programming  
in 7-10, sold on the basis of it being fun, and then not offer it in  
VCE except for that tiny minority of students who either may well go  
on to be professional programmers, or who are willing to put in the  
effort to learn something that may not be of direct use to them.   
After all, every VCE subject, even basket weaving, is of use in the  
sense that it gives them a certificate and an ENTER score.

>
> The small percentage of students who are keen programmers don't  
> need convincing to take on senior IT. The declining number of  
> senior students taking on IT programming indicates that there is a  
> major PR problem -

Is there? Or is the decline coming mostly from those of students who  
aren't keen programmers?  I can only speak for my school, but I'd say  
there would only be about 1% of students who are "keen programmers".  
This is not enough by a long shot to offer SD as a subject. And if  
they're not keen programmers and they enroll anyway, I'd say they're  
in for a tough year? (I could be wrong: I haven't taught SD.)

As for ITA... well, be honest... do you find the curriculum  
interesting?  To me, ITA sometimes feels like computers minus the fun  
bits. Those have been ferried off to SD and Multimedia. Certainly,  
99% of VCE IT student suggestions of "why can't we do something fun  
like _______?" pertain to topics covered by SD or multimedia.

  Students choose subjects for four main reasons 1) because it's a  
prerequisite for something 2) because it's interesting/fun 3) because  
it's easy 4) because it's a good environment in which to bludge.   I  
think for most students, ITA only fulfills category 4.   I'm trying  
to change that by clamping down on bludging and game-playing  but I  
rather suspect that that will merely cause enrollments to drop until  
I come up with some magic way to bring in point (2) without violating  
point (3) even further.

Russell
Whittlesea SC


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