[Yr7-10it] VELS and IT

Wed Jun 7 14:10:52 EST 2006

Thanks for the comments, Stuart.

I wonder whether, in some of the discussions, our use of language can be a problem. On one hand, we have the idea of "if you leave many students (and teachers) to their own devices, they are used appallingly" and on the other "I suspect for many, they don't need to learn ABOUT computers either"  Surely, these statements are mutually exclusive; and, if not, the problem is not any intention on my part to make a mountain out of a molehill, but in the language that different IT folk use to express different ideas.  So, please, clarify; discuss.

But, be that as it may, I would like to draw attention to the commonly held idea that students are already fairly computer literate.  Clearly, others on this list have challenged this assumption, based on their own experiences &/or the circumstances of their school.  But I would like to know, even in a "really computer literate" school how do we KNOW this.

In the paper on my wiki, I wrote (in part): The concern which I share in this paper is that rather than accepting learners as being "IT savvy" at face value and without enquiry, there should be a more earnest effort to identify the knowledge that students have about computers and computing.  That is, to presume that rather than being authoritative, that such knowledge may well be robust, idiosyncratic, familiar and pragmatic, but unique to the individual learner.

It's possible that I am out of touch with what's going on around the traps, but if there are good diagnostic tests or probes (or whatever) which demonstrate good conceptual understanding then I'd like to hear about them; and if not, I think we should move forward in this direction.

Regards,

-----Original Message-----
From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of stuw at huntingtower.vic.edu.au
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:05 PM
To: Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: RE: [Yr7-10it] VELS and IT

Here is my perspective and views:-

I have the advantage of being at the one school for the last twenty-five years and have seen much change and much stay the same. I started teaching Maths among other subjects in 1982. The "curriculum" that I was given for Maths listed a number of topics including 'Computers'. I developed a course using the four Apple IIe s. A few years later I was no longer teaching Maths and realised that there was no education about or with computers. I have always had the view that Information Technology should be taught across the curriculum. I proposed a course to fill what I thought would be a temporary gap until more teachers became computer savvy and incorporated them in their teaching. Twenty years down the track, I am still waiting. Although I have achieved some stunning converts, for the majority of teachers ICT means getting students to use a word processor or maybe PowerPoint. VELs has made my converts more passionate but has not changed what goes in many of the other classrooms. I suspect that the situation is much the same in many other schools.

Students do not need to learn about to learn about pens and pencils. I suspect for many, they don't need to learn ABOUT computers either. They are tools to education. Unfortunately if you leave many students (and
teachers) to their own devices, they are used appallingly. VELS does nothing to address this. Computers are an essential tool for life and most students need to be taught to use them efficiently. There is no garran tee that VELs will do this. We will always need teachers with the skill and passion. These teachers will continue to need a dedicated time slot to teach a survival guide to ICT. Ideally we can use this slot to service other curriculum areas

Cheers

Stuart walkerden

> I'm going to chip into the various positions which have been postulated.
>
> Firstly, I think we are all influenced by our respective backgrounds, 
> and here's mine: my under-grad studies were in computer science; I 
> loved writing compilers.  In education studies, I was inspired by the 
> various possibilities of how to use computers in various subjects.  I 
> spent a good deal of energy in my early years of teaching dashing 
> around, trying to enthuse colleagues to use computers, with mixed 
> sucess.  I was certainly a supporter of the idea of "dismantling" the 
> 'tiny little electives' which I was teaching, and try to roll the computing/ICT into other subjects.
>
> I have moderated my stance somewhat in recent years.  Experience has 
> shown that there's a genuine place for teaching "about" the 
> technology, a genuine place for the "computer specialist", and much 
> value in ensuring that there is an core of computing knowledge which 
> we ensure that students encounter through their schooling.  (I am 
> being guarded - the 'balance' in these might vary from school to school).
>
> One thing which I don't think us IT-types have fastened onto as much 
> as we should have is the idea of "pedagogical content knowledge" 
> (PCK), which is (according to theorists in the field of teacher's 
> knowledge) the 'special type' of knowledge that teachers develop, 
> which involves how to represent different types of content using 
> different means.  Basically, greater use of computing/ICT in non-ICT 
> areas will primarily be enabled in inhibited by how developed the 
> teacher's PCK is ... the problem is that it is demonstrably true that 
> PCK is jolly hard to foster.  But, ultimately, it is what we need to be doing.
>
> On another topic, like Paul Sipkes, I am constantly bemused to 
> encounter the lack of computer literacy or the retention of knowledge.  
> Maybe this becomes an argument in favour of more "core" IT at lower 
> levels.  It may also suggest that we need to teach differently.  One 
> of the things which I've been rolling around in my mind for a few 
> years is the need to teach more conceptually, and less with a skills 
> focus.  That's not to say we shouldn't teach skills, but it describes 
> the entry point.  In fact, I've been wondering about how to apply the 
> "children's science" approach which has profoundly influenced science teaching over the last 20 years to IT
> and computing.   Some initial thinking about this is to be found on the
> wiki:  http://pdchandler.wikispaces.com   If we are to really "take things
> forward" we may need to re-think how we approach the teaching of 
> "foundational" computing concepts and skills.  And if we do that, it 
> is possible that new ways of integrating computing/ICT will become 
> more possible or more valued.
>
> Regards,
>
> Paul Chandler
> paul.chandler at yvg.vic.edu.au
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au 
> [mailto:yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Paul Sijpkes
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:20 PM
> To: Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [Yr7-10it] VELS and IT
>
>
> At my school I teach IT and Multimedia, at year 10 level IT our 
> curriculum
> covers: networks, the information processing cycle, spreadsheets, 
> visual basic programming, graphics and web design (photoshop and 
> dreamweaver) all in two 40 minute periods per week.  Trying to cover 
> this many subjects in one year in so little time, the students only 
> get the briefest of glimpses of what is possible within most of these 
> areas.  It would be great to have specialist IT classes where we could 
> teach the subjects Don mentioned as well as having ICT integrated into 
> the other curriculum. I believe also we should be teaching basic ICT 
> skills at junior level, some of my students in year 8 still don't 
> understand that using Save As... can create a different file with a 
> different file name.... something that really shocked me.  I've also 
> had graphics and arts teachers complain to me that their students know 
> how to operate a scanner at year 10 and 11 level, something that 
> surely should be taught at junior level.  Note that I'm only speaking on my experience in one school as a new teacher.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Don Morelli 
> Edumail
> Sent: Tue 6/06/2006 11:15 AM
> To: 'Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: [Yr7-10it] VELS and IT
>
>
>
> My 2c worth on the argument.
>
> I have often asked this question about who teaches the ABOUT IT as 
> distinct from using IT as a tool. The answer that I have consistently 
> got is that it is not the intention that classroom teachers from other 
> KLAs teach the ABOUT STUFF (programming, OS, NOS, HARDWARE, ROBOTICS, 
> CONTROL SYTEMS etc) and that this still needs to be taught by specialists.
> Specialist IT classes should still exist within the curriculum, and 
> must not be allowed to be removed because of any VELS argument about 
> integration of this into existing curriculum. However, these IT 
> classes can now have less of a focus on applications and more on what 
> is mentioned above.
>
>
>
> I share the frustration and am really worried about the fact that some 
> schools are opting to drop IT classes at 7 to 10. We do need to stand 
> up and make the various administrators aware of the ABOUT IT that 
> seems to have fallen by the wayside, with the emphasis on applications.
>
>
>
> Don Morelli
>
> Leading Teacher ICT or whatever it is called now.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au 
> [mailto:yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Paul Sijpkes
> Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2006 9:54 AM
> To: Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [Yr7-10it] VELS and IT
>
>
>
> Hi Frank,
>
>
>
> I've thought a lot about this, the only way it is going to work is if 
> schools invest enough time into PDs (which we would teach) to train 
> their staff in robotics etc...
>
> I've seen potential for teaching robotics in science, in particular.  
> In year 8 student study the different types of levers in the body, 
> robotics would be a great way to engage them with this, but the 
> problem is training the teachers to use it.  Programming could be fit 
> into Maths and the Sciences, to model experiments, again this needs 
> support from the schools and training for the teachers.  From my 
> understanding, VELS relegates IT and technology teachers to classroom 
> aides that assist teachers in using the technology.  This may not be a 
> bad thing, the majority of parents and students do not see the need to learn the technical aspects of IT.
>
>
>
> I think the rationale from the planners is that, essentially, it is 
> how we use technology as a tool rather than whether we understand the 
> workings of its innards that is important.  Subjects such as 
> programming may be touched upon in some subjects at pre VCE level but 
> will ultimately be (and to a large extent already is) shifted to the TAFE system.
>
>
>
> Paul Sijpkes
>
> Academic Staff
>
> THE KNOX SCHOOL
>
> Independent Co-educational International
>
> Wantirna South VIC 3152
>
> Phone: +61 3 9801 9233
> Fax: +61 3 9887 1850
>
> Website: www.knox.vic.edu.au <http://www.knox.vic.edu.au>
>
> CRICOS Provider No: 00151G ABN: 16 095 158 222
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au 
> [mailto:yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Frank Merlino
> Sent: Friday, 2 June 2006 5:46 PM
> To: yr7-10it at edulists.com.au
> Cc: is at edulists.com.au
> Subject: [Yr7-10it] VELS and IT
>
>
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> Maybe someone can share their knowledge about this one with me....
>
>
>
> In the design of VELS, where did the "planners" think such areas as 
> computer programming, robotics, learning about how computer systems 
> work, etc were going to fit? One would imagine that in this day and 
> age, it would be considered essential learning to know something about 
> how hardware works, how programs work, how robotics is implemented and 
> its basics, etc. Do the "planners" in their wildest dreams think these 
> topics will be covered well in the "disciplines"? What's your opinion?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
>
>
> Frank Merlino
> Technology (IT and Systems) Co-ordinator Web Site Manager St. Joseph's 
> College
> 135 Aphrasia St, Newtown
> Geelong, Victoria, Australia, 3219
> Phone: 03 52 268100
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe 
> Year 7 - 10 IT Mailing List kindly supported by 
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment 
> Authority and http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information 
> Technology Teachers Association Inc
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe 
> Year 7 - 10 IT Mailing List kindly supported by 
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment 
> Authority and http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information 
> Technology Teachers Association Inc
>
> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If 
> received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before 
> opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. 
> Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the 
> negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from 
> the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying 
> any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed 
> are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the 
> Department of Education & 
> Training._______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe 
> Year 7 - 10 IT Mailing List kindly supported by 
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment 
> Authority and http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information 
> Technology Teachers Association Inc
>
> **********************************************************************
> *********
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are Confidential to the 
> intended recipient and may be privileged.  If you have received this 
> email inadvertently or you are not the intened recipient, you may not 
> disseminate, distribute, copy or in any way rely on it.  Further, you 
> should notify the sender immediately and delete the email from your 
> computer.  Whilst we have taken precautions to alert us to the 
> presence of computer viruses, we cannot guarantee that this email and 
> any files transmitted with it are free from such viruses.
>
> **********************************************************************
> *********
>
>
> DISCLAIMER:
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and 
> intended solely for the use of the individual to whom they are addressed.
>
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender 
> immediately by return email and then delete this message.
>
> Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual sender 
> and may not necessarily reflect the views of Yarra Valley Grammar.
>
>
> YVG Mail security - Checked

-----------------------------------------
This e-mail is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above and may contain information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by return e-mail or telephone, and destroy the original message.
Whilst every attempt has been made to ensure that material contained in this e-mail is free from computer viruses or other defects, the attached files are provided, and may only be used, on the basis that the user assumes all responsibility for use of the material transmitted.

_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe Year 7 - 10 IT Mailing List kindly supported by http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and http://www.vitta.org.au  - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc

YVG Mail security - Checked