[vet-mm] tricky situation

Thu Apr 24 11:00:44 EST 2008

Thanks everyone for their thoughts and ideas. It has helped me form some concrete ideas on how to make the best of this bad situation. I am about to begin discussions in what we can do to address issues like this in the future and to what kind of policy we can have in place so that students are clear on what the boundaries are.

Jeanean Pritchard
Highview College
jpritchard at highview.vic.edu.au 

>>> "Meadows, Roslyn M" <Meadows.Roslyn.M at edumail.vic.gov.au> 23/04/2008 3:53 pm >>>

You make some great points Suzanne,
I feel incredibly sorry for the "innocent" victims in this case - the girl who was suspended, and the boy who may be ostracized by his friends because his father created a big stink and now they will lose one of their friends from the school. 
I also wonder if the girl's MySpace had been made "private" or was it open?
Yes I think the punishment is far far too severe for the "crime". Both the father and the school completely over reacted (IMHO) 
I wonder at some parents' motives for "kicking up a stink" at school.  I presumed it was a girl, the fact that it is a male student and his father is even more unbelievable!!
About the kids surfing - yes - parents need to be educated too, and computers need to be kept in the family room, not in a study or bedroom, it is so easy to keep an eye on them!! Just move the computer into the family area!!
When a child starts prep there is danger crossing the road, so as adults we teach the child how to cross the road safely. 
Yet when it comes to the internet, we block it off and pretend that the danger does not exist! But I do not believe having a policy 
New technologies bring new issues, new challenges, new dangers.. 
Good luck with this issue Jeanene - I hope there can be satisfactory resolution for all involved.
Ros

Roslyn Meadows
Head of ICT Implementation
Head of Assessment and Reporting
Bentleigh Secondary College 
| 9579 1044 | 0412 614 062 |
Please consider the environment before printing this email 

There are three ways of being dead - heart dead, brain dead, and not being able to connect to the internet!

From: vet-mm-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:vet-mm-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of ARNOTT Suz
Sent: Wednesday, 23 April 2008 11:08 AM
To: VET Multimedia Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: RE: [vet-mm] tricky situation

Ahhh Ros.
You took the words out of my mouth..
My huge issue is the "control" I know our school (and many others) tries to put on the use of ICT by banning this that and the other.phones iPods etc.
I know there is a serious side to it. things like witness protection, custody issues etc are stuff that sadly some of our kids are faced with as well, which is what the privacy laws are all about.. Having said that.as Ros said there are better ways of dealing with it. And even as teachers we often don't know what is going on in the kids private life. for a parent to have that reaction you have to ask the question why???
As a part of my courses (photography multimedia and a range of other arts based ict subjects) we talk about what is acceptable and why. many kids post pics of themselves and their friends on their myspace that would rate as child porn. and they don't even realise it until it is spelled out to them. The bottom line is we can only guide them in what they put up or share on any space. online or on phone.
It is a new world with technology moving so fast.. It sounds like a great approach that Greg's school had, we have had the police talk to the kids.. But I think we need to educate the staff and parents too. we need to work together to educate our kids on responsible internet/phone/etc use.
On a side note. my son (grade 4) casually mentioned to me that one of his friends and his brother were not allowed on the internet any more. (grade 4 and 6) because they were found surfing porn.. Begs to ask the question where was the computer to allow this to happen in the first place. parents need to be educated on how to have their kids use the internet safely. not just knee jerk reactions when the kids do the wrong thing.
I could go on.. It is an issue that needs way more debate and discussion with parents and staff and kids and the community.. There are so many twists and turns.

Enough for now.
Good luck Jeanene
Cheers
Suz

Suzanne Arnott
ICT Staff Support
Photography and Multimedia Coordinator
Elisabeth Murdoch College
Langwarrin

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From: vet-mm-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:vet-mm-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Jeanean Pritchard
Sent: Wednesday, 23 April 2008 9:55 AM
To: VET Multimedia Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: RE: [vet-mm] tricky situation

Hi Ros, thanks for your thoughts.

I had to laugh firstly, because it was actually a male student who was in the background and his father that complained to the school!

However, I hear what you are saying. As a class, we often discuss the anguish felt by some students at seeing themselves in a photograph when others would say that the image is not any different than the one they show the world in day to day life. We talk about the fear of the loss of control and how much in our world we can control regarding our own self. We discuss who actually owns the image, the photographer or the subject?

I ask myself whether as a school, if we have the right to control the behaviour of our students outside of school hours. If they are doing something illegal during those times surely it becomes a criminal matter. However at our school we ask that students hair colour be of "natural looking" colour. It is written into our policy . A student may sent home if they arrive with pink hair for example. 

As suggested by another teacher, it really needs to be written into our policy under acceptable use of ICT. I guess perhaps the school would have grounds to expect that any photograph taken on school grounds should not be published on the internet. What about the loopholes? What will happen if a photograph is taken outside the school fence, or at a school formal etc? 

I've actually just found out this morning that the mother of my student (who took the photograph) is planning to take her daughter out of school because she has been unhappy with the punishment her daughter received. Apparently she has made several visits to the school that I didn't know about. This is very sad. 

Jeanean Pritchard
Highview College
jpritchard at highview.vic.edu.au

>>> "Meadows, Roslyn M" <Meadows.Roslyn.M at edumail.vic.gov.au> 22/04/2008 10:22 pm >>>
This issue infuriates me!!!

I would say some people have too much time on their hands.... and I
would say that it must have been an unflattering photo of the girl in
the background, if it made her look like Australia's next top model she
never would have complained to the parent, who then complained to the
school.

How do I know this? My daughter is 17 has lots of photos of her and her
friends on her myspace and facebook, the ONLY time they complain about a
photo of themselves being on someone else's page is when it is not a
flattering photo.

My daughter appears on other's pages, in photos that were taken at
school in uniforms, some of them she is NOT happy about "I am so ugly in
that pic"
Would I even dream of calling the school????  duh... I have better
things to do with my life...

As ! a parent I would say "message her and ask her to take the photo off
if you really don't want it there"

We cannot be accountable for every photo they take of each other and
post to facebook or myspace it is totally beyond our control.

Ban ban ban (phones, ipods, pda's cameras etc) block block block
(myspace, facebook, youtube etc) get real - this is what our kids live
with, THEY have to learn to deal with it. In their own time, in their
own way, we can't show them the way because this is something we never
experienced. It is up to them to set the boundaries, to speak up for
themselves, if they don't want a photo of them on someone's space, just
text or IM or email and ask politely "could you please take me out of
the photo".

This overprotective mother is soon going to find she has a socially
incompetent daughter if she doesn't butt out of her life and stop trying
to provide bandaids for everything that goes wrong in her d! aughter's
life.

Now I will turn around so you can all stab m e in the back!!

Cheers
Ros

PS I have a facebook and have photos of me that other people have posted
that I am not happy with (some posted by my students) - big deal - the
camera never lies!!!

Roslyn Meadows
Head of ICT Implementation
Head of Assessment and Reporting
Bentleigh Secondary College 
| 9579 1044 | 0412 614 062 |

Please consider the environment before printing this email 
There are three ways of being dead - heart dead, brain dead, and not
being able to connect to the internet!

-----Original Message-----
From: vet-mm-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:vet-mm-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Greg Neil (Mr)
Sent: Tuesday, 22 April 2008 5:27 PM
To: VET Multimedia Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: RE: [vet-mm] tricky situation

I would agree that the punishment seems to be a severe over-reaction,
assuming there are no other circumstances in influence.

As for being able to p! revent it - simple answer is you cannot. Students
carry some many devices that have cameras now - phones, laptops, etc.
that it is impossible to monitor what photographs are taken where, and
how they are subsequently used.

What we did do was get a representative from the Victorian Police who
specialises in cyber stalking, pedophile tracking and social networking
sites and it's ills to come and talk about it with parents. The woman
that spoke to staff first, and then parents in a second session, was
very good, had some great insights into the problem and things to be
aware of, and didn't shy away from telling the parents that they had a
role to play in this as well.

We block access to face book, myspace. etc through the school intranet,
but know full well that we cannot (and I believe should not) control
what the students do outside school hours. Attempts to circumvent these
blocks can result in punishment, but once the stude! nt leaves the school
grounds, the school has no role in policing th eir behaviour.

In your case, a discussion regarding the responsibility of the student
with regards to the privacy of others, a warning about the dangers of
posting identifying information on social networks sites, and perhaps a
threat of punishment for a repeat offense would have been, to me a
least, a more appropriate response.

-----Original Message-----
From: vet-mm-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Jeanean Pritchard
Sent: Tue 4/22/2008 4:58 PM
To: VET Multimedia Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: [vet-mm] tricky situation

Hello all,
I've just had a tricky situation arise here and I'm keen for your
opinions/thoughts or accounts of similar incidents.

During one of my multimedia classes, a student of mine took a
photograph of herself and one of her friends as part of a classroom
task. Later that evening in her own home, she placed it onto her own
facebook page. 

The controversy is that in the backg! round of the photograph, there was
another student wearing his school uniform, logo clearly showing. That
student's parent got wind of the photo, and made a formal (and quite
vocal) complaint to our school.

As a result, my student (the photographer) was placed on a type of
school suspension, very close to being formally suspended from school.
She was also asked to remove the photograph from her site.

I agree this is an issue. I'm not really sure how it should be dealt
with, or what our legal obligations are to our parents or our students.
I understand why the parent was concerned, and I'm not sure how we can
police our students like this outside of school hours. How much of the
world can we really control? I was very disappointed about the
punishment given to my student. She would never intentionally hurt
anyone. She has a very near perfect behaviour record for the four years
she has been enrolled. She was mortified to be in! such serious trouble.
She took her punishment without complaint. T hankfully my student also
had her mother's support. Her mother did not approach the school at all,
but did quietly confide in her daughter that she believed she had
intended no evil and not to worry about it.

I know that something must happen, and the school must find a place to
stand on this issue. In this case I believe a stern warning/talk would
have been more appropriate. My school is currently debating about this
issue, and trying to form some sort of policy. I'm interested to hear if
anything similar has happened to anyone else, or what
policies/procedures your schools have in place when an issue like this
arises.

Jeanean Pritchard
Highview College
jpritchard at highview.vic.edu.au 

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