[vet-mm] RE: [Technical] RE: [Yr7-10it] ICT in the Essential Learning Standards

[Greg Neil]

I would like to offer a non-teaching perspective on this, as I believe that there is a general mis-trust or lack of faith in Information Technology. My background is in big 5 consulting and large systems implementation. After 15+ years in that environment I am now working support in the educational sphere (and enjoying it, I might add). I am also married to an English teacher.

The tech bubble is one factor, as to is Y2K. Having lead large teams in preparing Government departments for 'The End of Civilisation As We Know It', at a cost of tens of millions of dollars (billions world-wide), only to see it pass with little or no impact (thanks to the amount of effort and money expended in the lead up, I might add), the general public impression was that it was all a beat up to allow large consulting companies to charge outrageous fees for work that either wasn't really required, or that should not have been required if IT had done the right thing 30 years earlier. Couple this very public events with the contradiction between the advertising (the computer is just like any other appliance) and the truth (instability, usability) and it's no wonder people who don't use them a lot are wary of the benefits. If your toaster crashed on every second or third piece of toast, you would trow it out. Yet many teachers (the public at large, in fact) see computers as inherently unstable and unreliable. OK for an email, but don't rely on it in a crisis. Windows XP is probably the most stable, practical mainstream OS. Well maintained it does not crash often of it's own accord. But so much of the software we install on top of it is not robust, is written in pseudo-platforms such as director, and is cottage industry stuff.

The final factor I would like to drop in here is probably close to home for most of us, and if not done well is a death by a thousand cuts. Implementation of IT projects, be they a new administration system or the introduction of a new teaching application is where we win or lose reputation points. If it all goes smoothly, our reputation goes up 1 point. If it does not go smoothly, our reputation goes down 5 - 10 points. This is not education specific, this is IT anywhere. You judge the success of a project by the lack of complaint, no the kudos you recieve. But in many cases, these implementations are being managed by people who are not trained in project management or systems implementation, have many other constraints on their time, don't have the budget they really require, and have unrealistically tight timeframes. I must admit to being impressed by how much is done with so little in the education environment, compared to how little is achieved with so much in the departments themselves.

Looking at it from my perspective, two areas could win a great number of reputation points back (slowly, but back nontheless). 

First, a greater involvement in evaluating educational software, not just from a teaching perpective, but from an IT perspective of stability. This will necessitate support from high up to enforce rules such as no teacher being able to unilaterally choose and puchase packages for deployment. And where software is found to be inadequate, communicate this back to the producer, clearly and objectively. Maybe the next version will be better this way.

Second, better planning and management of implmentations. This includes training as well as roll out. If you are involved with this type of activity, then perhaps project management fundamentals should be in your professional development plan.

I am beginning to see that the school environment does not always lend itself to doing these things better, and that it will be a challenge. But I do believe that these would go a long way toward getting back some of the lost faith.

A final point has come to mind, which I won't try to go back and integrate into me previous points. There does seem to be somewhat of a silo'd, us and them relationship between IT and other faculties (in fact, between faculties in general). The IT area is often seen as a hinderence, rather than an enabler. You go there when things break, not to make them work better. English (as an example) want's assignments presented as typed documents or powerpoint presentations, but the english teacher does not have the time or skill to teach the students how to use these tools. We now have a catch-22. The teacher can't give up the 4 - 6 hours required to teach powerpoint skills, so the students have to learn it on their own. The expectation is that having a tool like this available to them will improve the quality of their work, which it does. However the quality of presentation goes up, and the quality of content goes down because they spent most of the time learning how the tool worked instead of learning the subject. Instead of English giving up 6 housr to teach powerpoint, how about the first 3 days of each school year be given over to ensuring that every student and member of faculty has a basic grounding in word, excel, powerpoint. Everyone should be able to create a table, do a mail merge, add up a column of numbers. No one faculty gives up a large chunck of time, but all give up a small amount once a year to ensure that the basics are covered. How this is achieved is up for further debate.

Anyway, just my 2 cents (actually, now it's more like 5 cents).

Greg Neil
Computer Systems Manager
St Margaret's School, Berwick


-----Original Message-----
From:	tech-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Keith Richardson
Sent:	Sat 6/25/2005 8:34 AM
To:	Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List; List IS; ListMulti-Media; List Tech; List IP&M; List Moodle
Cc:	
Subject:	[Technical] RE: [Yr7-10it] ICT in the Essential Learning Standards
DISCUSSION STARTER...
I find it interesting to be in the MIDDLE of something huge that is
happening, know that it is happening, yet not be able to see or
understand WHY it is happening. Methinks that it has something to do
with VALUES perhaps? When we talk about THEM, and THEY, we are (I
assume) referring to the great mass of non-ICT-expert adults in the
world. However, it is THEY who obviously have more control than we do
over the values 'society' places on ICT education. This whole happening
has many 'rippples-in-time', so to identify a few may be some way of
feeling-out an understanding of what has happened. The Tech-Bubble was a
major contributing event. When companies were falling over themselves to
invest millions of dollars in ICT infrastructure, Web-based
technologies, business models that had only red in the bottom line,
instant millionaires created on false promises etc, WE LOST THE RESPECT
of the rest of the world. It doesn't matter whose fault it was - the
fact is that it HAPPENED.
OK, so much for that pearl of perceptive wisdom. What I would like to
know is, can anyone else shed light on the CAUSES of the current effects
we are experiencing?
Over to others!
Keith Richardson.



On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 00:44:25 +1000, "Jim Bunn"
<bunn.jim.c at edumail.vic.gov.au> said:
> Thanks Roslyn,
> 
>  
> 
> You paint a rather grim picture for ICT across the state. From where I'm
> sitting I can only agree with you. The administration at my school has
> been
> trying for years to get rid of Junior 7-8 ICT ...sorry, integrate it into
> other KLAs. With all due respect to our colleagues, the ICT teachers here
> don't see the ICT skills in very many of our other teachers. It's a good
> theory, but practically I just don't see it working effectively, at least
> yet. My cynical view sees some people using ICT time as 'ok kids you have
> the assignment, here are the computers,' and off the kids go while their
> teachers mark work or check their email. The end of Junior ICT at this
> school is inevitable. Other KLACs are already lining up for the extra
> periods. 
> 
>  
> 
> In defence of integrating ICT into other disciplines, someone recently
> said
> to me something like, 'Schools used to teach touch typing but who does it
> now?', as he smartly laughed.  A rather smug comment maybe, but I see
> this
> same mind set, or perception towards ICT. As a counter argument, one of
> my
> Cisco Networking students brings his laptop to class, and during my
> frequent
> PowerPoint lectures he sits there, and as he stares at the screen, he
> madly
> types away. The other students cannot believe what they see. They stare
> in
> amazement. These other students take notes (as you know) by looking at
> the
> screen, writing/typing a few words, looking back at the screen, and so
> on. A
> touch typist in the classroom is rare and really stands out. Sure these
> other students can get by, but how much better are they if they have good
> typing skills. I see the ICT skills that ICT teachers teach being lost as
> our classes are integrated into other subjects. You've heard the argument
> before, but here is again: we all are supposed to teach English/literacy
> skills, so why not integrate English into all the other KLAs? Why not?
> The
> logic is the same. Why don't we do it? Because most of us are not
> trained,
> or don't have the English skills that an English-trained teacher has. How
> are ICT skills any different??
> 
>  
> 
> I think I'll forget about all this and have a nice, relaxing two weeks. I
> hope everyone out there can do the same.
> 
>  
> 
> Jim Bunn
> CCNA CCAI
> Technology Coordinator
> Hampton Park Secondary College
> Victoria  Australia
> 
> bunn.jim.c at edumail.vic.gov.au 
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au
> [mailto:yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Meadows, Roslyn M
> Sent: Thursday, 23 June 2005 7:26 PM
> To: Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [Yr7-10it] ICT in the Essential Learning Standards
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks Paula,
> 
>  
> 
> Having poured over the documentation, publications, powerpoint
> presentations, DVD and website since I first saw the VELS booklet last
> year
> (and went "oh shock horror!"), I believe that I, like most others on this
> list, fully understand the gist (and possible implications) of VELS. 
> 
>  
> 
> But it is our collective fear that given the opportunity, and an already
> crowded curriculum, many schools will take the opportunity to hit the
> delete
> button on ICT as a separate subject and attempt to integrate it into
> other
> subjects - thus freeing up a couple of periods per week in Year 7 and 8,
> which will then be 'up for grabs' by other KLA's. Being a small learning
> area (3 teachers at BSC) we will rarely have the 'numbers' in the vote
> that
> may or may not take place (in our school it will be a decision made by
> the
> principal). And sometimes these school based decisions are not made on
> educational merits alone, but are more influenced by peoples' personal
> agendas, which members of staff are on the committee that makes the
> decision, the lobbying by some and the personalities of the lobbiers.
> It's
> all a matter of politics really! I have seen this happen numerous times
> in
> my years of teaching.
> 
>  
> 
> In the previous emails to these lists which describe the experiences of
> other schools who have already tried to integrate ICT, the ICT teachers
> were
> overwhelmingly disappointed in the outcome. 
> 
> 
> The standards that each student must attain are in the VELS
> documentation,
> but who will be following this up to make sure that these standards are
> met?
> Will the VELS watch dogs be at every school to make sure that ICT skills
> are
> being learned? What will happen in a couple of years time once Maths or
> SOSE
> have gained these extra periods each week - will the ICT component of
> their
> course eventually be watered down to the bare minimum, or even less? 
> 
>  
> 
> And how can an English, SOSE, Maths or Science teacher with little or no
> interest in ICT (and perhaps little or no ICT knowledge or skills)
> replace
> an enthusiastic ICT teacher who has the knowledge, interest and the
> experience teaching these skills? I am sorry but I see ICT skills as
> being
> much more relevant to today's students than, for example -  what food
> ancient egyptians ate or what they wore (the subject of a Year 7 history
> assignment that consumed many hours of cutting out, colouring in, and
> drawing pictures that my daughter had to complete)
> 
>  
> 
> As an aside  - I did a brief 'hands up' survey earlier this week of two
> year
> 8 classes on "What is your favourite subject?" Only 3 subjects got a
> guernsey - ICT, Sport and Art - with the overwhelming majority choosing
> ICT.
> (They have studied databases, web design, flash and image manipulation
> this
> semester - all of which has been put into the context of real world and
> relevant situations - thanks Greg Bowden for your text and CD ROM).
> Perhaps
> this is a reflection of my enthusiasm for the subject (one would like to
> think so), perhaps it is because they are always so engaged that there is
> never any misbehaviour (and one of these classes has a number of
> 'difficult'
> students, which makes life rather tedious for the other 'good' kids),
> perhaps it is because they just love sitting at a computer. How will the
> kids feel if you take ICT away and give them an extra period of say,
> Maths
> and SOSE each week?
> 
>  
> 
> So I continue to ask "Has VELS got it wrong?" (By even considering giving
> schools a chance to integrate ICT across the curriculum) And I still
> strongly believe that ICT should be up there with the big four (English,
> SOSE, Maths, Science). And I don't believe that it can be successfully
> integrated across the curriculum. It should not be considered just as a
> tool
> to be used in other areas of learning - as in
> 
> "...students will apply ICT knowledge and skills to:
> 
> *     develop understandings (ICT for visualising thinking)
> 
> *     demonstrate understandings (ICT for creating)
> 
> *     share understandings (ICT for communicating)
> 
> in other areas of learning."     (my underlining)
> 
> Millions of people around the world are employed in the ICT and related
> industries, compared to the number of people employed in, for example,
> history or art related industries. Yet history is considered important
> enough to warrant 3 periods per week for one semester for 4 years, (about
> 240 periods) whereas ICT gets 2 periods per week for 1.5 years, (about
> 100
> periods)  - and may lose this. ICT should be considered as a learning
> area
> on its own; it should not just be considered a tool to be used in other
> learning areas.
> 
>  
> 
> Sorry to bore you all - I feel quite strongly about this. 
> 
>  
> 
> Keep smiling everyone - holidays are just about upon us!
> 
>  
> 
> Ros Meadows
> 
> Bentleigh SC
> 
> 9579 1044
> 
>  <mailto:meadows.roslyn.m at edumail.vic.gov.au>
> meadows.roslyn.m at edumail.vic.gov.au
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: yr7-10it-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Christophersen, Paula
> P
> Sent: Thu 23/06/2005 4:31 PM
> To: IPM List; Year 7 - 10 Information Technology Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: [Yr7-10it] ICT in the Essential Learning Standards
> 
> Dear colleagues
> 
>  
> 
> Lately there has been some discussion about the 'interdisciplinary'
> nature
> of the ICT domain and its status in the Essential Learning Standards.
> Being
> a member of the Interdisciplinary Learning strand does not preclude ICT
> from
> being offered as a dedicated subject. Being interdisciplinary means that
> in
> their learning, students will apply ICT knowledge and skills to:
> 
> *     develop understandings (ICT for visualising thinking)
> 
> *     demonstrate understandings (ICT for creating)
> 
> *     share understandings (ICT for communicating)
> 
> in other areas of learning.
> 
>  
> 
> How they actually acquire these knowledge and skills is up to the school.
> For example, the locus of learning may be in a dedicated ICT subject
> where
> students would develop/acquire ICT knowledge and skills using authentic
> data
> and information pertaining to other domains. OR, other schools may
> construct
> a learning environment where the acquisition and application of ICT
> knowledge and skills occurs in non-ICT classes. The choice is yours. The
> Essential Learning Standards document does not mandate how students will
> acquire the ICT knowledge and skills, but it does state the standards
> that
> must be demonstrated at progressive levels of learning. 
> 
>  
> 
> I'm very happy to respond to any queries you may have regarding this
> matter.
> 
>  
> 
> Regards
> 
>   
> 
> Paula Christophersen
> 
> ICT Curriculum Manager
> 
> VCAA
> 
> 41 St Andrews Place
> 
> EAST MELBOURNE 3002
> 
> (03) 9651 4378
> 
>  
> 
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Keith Richardson
IPM List Moderator
Head of ICT, Leibler Yavneh College
Elsternwick
Ph: 03.9528.4911
k.richardson at yavneh.vic.edu.au

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