[Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] syseng Digest, Vol 158, Issue 1
Michael Slinger
Michael.Slinger at stleonards.vic.edu.au
Mon Nov 18 21:59:21 UTC 2019
Q13 is an odd context, but it's also roughly 25 years since I ran a bunch of extension leads with a double adapter on the end so that I could have a tv and bar fridge in my cubby house to watch the cricket. Nothing beats after school ice-cold cokes and the peace to have Richie et al uninterrupted during the post-tea session. I suppose that's a similarly electrically inefficient situation of connecting devices.
Michael Slinger
Systems Engineering and STEM Teacher
Michael.Slinger at stleonards.vic.edu.au
-----Original Message-----
From: syseng <syseng-bounces at edulists.com.au> On Behalf Of Brendan D'Arcy
Sent: Tuesday, 19 November 2019 8:26 AM
To: syseng at edulists.com.au
Subject: Re: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] syseng Digest, Vol 158, Issue 1
Good morning Michael,
I totally agree! Where was the creativity aspect and the engineering design?
Whilst many of the questions were good questions, some were just too specific/complex in my experience.
Some of the resistor circuits (series-parallel circuits) were very complex compared to past exams and relevant text books demonstrate.
Yes question 3 could be interpreted in many ways. 11 wiring connections for only 3 marks....how will this be marked, is a good question?
Questions 4, unless you studied this exact circuit as a class, most students wouldn't have the knowledge or experience to answer this.
Having to work out the Zener diode reverse voltage from the graph is not so obvious for many students. Then to subtract the 0.6V from the transistor B-E junction to find the output voltage would challenge some of the students.
And you are correct, being able to fault find is another thing again. The capacitor was underrated for the application, and I suspect the Rb 50k Ohm resistor was too large in value. I doubt many students have seen this circuit before. Questions 4b, 4c, 4d were tough questions! Beyond the ability/recognition of the majority of students?
Question 13? What did you think of that one? 240V extension leads over 200m between buildings? At least these questions would be worked out but the application was a bit strange.
Regards,
Brendan.
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: destech Digest, Vol 174, Issue 11 (Michael Slinger)
2. Re: destech Digest, Vol 174, Issue 11 (Roger Knight)
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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2019 07:28:36 +0000
From: Michael Slinger <Michael.Slinger at stleonards.vic.edu.au>
To: Design and Technology Teachers' Mailing List
<destech at edulists.com.au>, "syseng at edulists.com.au"
<syseng at edulists.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] destech
Digest, Vol 174, Issue 11
Message-ID: <e9aa684ad35941c2a3801b2cf9571ef4 at stleonards.vic.edu.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Thanks for starting the discussion Brendan,
I agree with you that there are some questions that are quite difficult. But I recognise there needs to be difficult questions as a discriminator at the high end of achievement.
A couple that I'm interested in:
I'd be interested in seeing how Q3 was interpreted by students. Depending on how it's marked, there may be a bunch of 2/3 marks for that one. I'm not certain how the writers intended the initial connections to be done. The rest should be straight-forward for a high-achieving student.
Q4 could be interpreted in a bunch of different ways; particularly the mistake questions. I’d be interested in your interpretation of this question.
Whilst there is always going to be disagreement of what is "too hard for school students", the biggest misstep (in my opinion) is the over-emphasis on purely calculation-type questions at the expense of questions where students have to design a system to solve a problem/meet a set of performance specifications. I don't know if this was a panel-level decision or a VCAA-level decision, but that type of problem solving is core to what engineering is. From the study design: "identify and represent mechanical and electrotechnological systems in diagrammatic and symbolic forms", and "select appropriate mechanical and electrotechnological subsystems, materials and components, and produce operational systems and subsystems".
Interested in getting others' thoughts.
Cheers
Michael Slinger
Michael Slinger
Systems Engineering and STEM Teacher
Michael.Slinger at stleonards.vic.edu.au
-----Original Message-----
From: destech <destech-bounces at edulists.com.au> On Behalf Of Brendan D'Arcy
Sent: Monday, 18 November 2019 12:08 PM
To: destech at edulists.com.au
Subject: Re: [Design and Technology] destech Digest, Vol 174, Issue 11
Good afternoon,
I have just been reading through and working out some of the answers for todays unit 3/4 Systems engineering exam.
Has anyone else been through it?
It seems to be extremely difficult and at times way above the level of knowledge required for secondary students.
I am an electronics engineer (now systems teacher) and I really think the level of skill required was excessive for this exam.
Written by someone from a university?
What do other Systems teachers think about the exam content, wording and examples?
Regards,
Brendan D’Arcy (TNBD)
Senior School Teacher
VCE Systems Engineering,
Level A-E Design & Systems Technology and Mathematics Kardinia International College PO Box 17, Geelong, Victoria, 3220, Australia
Ph: +61 3 5278 9999 Fax: +61 3 5278 9529 I b.darcy at kardinia.vic.edu.au Click to find KIC I www.kardinia.vic.edu.au I
-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Friday, 15 November 2019 9:21 AM
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Subject: destech Digest, Vol 174, Issue 11
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Today's Topics:
1. Technician job (Royale, Melissa M)
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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2019 22:23:08 +0000
From: "Royale, Melissa M" <royale.melissa.m at edumail.vic.gov.au>
To: "destech at edulists.com.au" <destech at edulists.com.au>
Subject: [Design and Technology] Technician job
Message-ID: <95af122ee12d4c75a58e453c1123cd8e at edumail.vic.gov.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Patterson River Secondary College is currently advertising the positon of Design Technology Technician. Please forward the following link to anyone who may be interested:
https://schooljobs.education.vic.gov.au/psc/ROLPPRD1_EA/APPLICANT/HRMS/c/HRS_HRAM.HRS_APP_SCHJOB.GBL?Page=HRS_APP_JBPST&Action=U&FOCUS=Applicant&SiteId=1&JobOpeningId=1176931&PostingSeq=1&utm_source=joraau&utm_campaign=joraau&utm_medium=organic
For enquiries please contact Lisa Cavey, Acting Principles, (03) 8770 6700, cavey.lisa.l at edumail.vic.gov.au
Regards,
Melissa Royale
Design Technology Domain Leader
[cid:image001.jpg at 01D4D2AC.CAD91820]<http://www.prsc.vic.edu.au/>
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2019 10:18:07 +0000
From: Roger Knight <RKnight at stpats.vic.edu.au>
To: Design and Technology Teachers' Mailing List
<destech at edulists.com.au>, "syseng at edulists.com.au"
<syseng at edulists.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Systems Engineering Teachers' Mailing List] destech
Digest, Vol 174, Issue 11
Message-ID:
<0111a2c9ecf740f98c3c803d43d36f1a at shalimar.stpats.vic.edu.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Hi all
I agree with Brendan. Also, I have always been concerned by the fact that the key knowledge for unit 3 outcome 1 is intended by VCAA to be learned by the student in the process of designing and commencing production of a mechatronic system with control. The reality is that this key knowledge also needs to be taught as theory.
The study design lists more than 58 different components, concepts and principles as key knowledge in unit 3 outcome 1. There is no indication as to what level of understanding the student is expected to come to during the course yet it is this very list of concepts and principles that the exam is almost entirely based on. I find this level of ambiguity even more alarming than degree of difficulty pointed out by Brendan.
The student then faces the daunting prospect of sitting the paper not really knowing if they are fully prepared. Russian roulette.
I think it’s a great study. But there needs to be more clarity regarding the depth that the student is expected to have in the concepts listed.
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-----Original Message-----
From: destech <destech-bounces at edulists.com.au> On Behalf Of Michael Slinger
Sent: Monday, 18 November 2019 6:29 PM
To: Design and Technology Teachers' Mailing List <destech at edulists.com.au>; syseng at edulists.com.au
Subject: Re: [Design and Technology] destech Digest, Vol 174, Issue 11
Thanks for starting the discussion Brendan,
I agree with you that there are some questions that are quite difficult. But I recognise there needs to be difficult questions as a discriminator at the high end of achievement.
A couple that I'm interested in:
I'd be interested in seeing how Q3 was interpreted by students. Depending on how it's marked, there may be a bunch of 2/3 marks for that one. I'm not certain how the writers intended the initial connections to be done. The rest should be straight-forward for a high-achieving student.
Q4 could be interpreted in a bunch of different ways; particularly the mistake questions. I’d be interested in your interpretation of this question.
Whilst there is always going to be disagreement of what is "too hard for school students", the biggest misstep (in my opinion) is the over-emphasis on purely calculation-type questions at the expense of questions where students have to design a system to solve a problem/meet a set of performance specifications. I don't know if this was a panel-level decision or a VCAA-level decision, but that type of problem solving is core to what engineering is. From the study design: "identify and represent mechanical and electrotechnological systems in diagrammatic and symbolic forms", and "select appropriate mechanical and electrotechnological subsystems, materials and components, and produce operational systems and subsystems".
Interested in getting others' thoughts.
Cheers
Michael Slinger
Michael Slinger
Systems Engineering and STEM Teacher
Michael.Slinger at stleonards.vic.edu.au
-----Original Message-----
From: destech <destech-bounces at edulists.com.au> On Behalf Of Brendan D'Arcy
Sent: Monday, 18 November 2019 12:08 PM
To: destech at edulists.com.au
Subject: Re: [Design and Technology] destech Digest, Vol 174, Issue 11
Good afternoon,
I have just been reading through and working out some of the answers for todays unit 3/4 Systems engineering exam.
Has anyone else been through it?
It seems to be extremely difficult and at times way above the level of knowledge required for secondary students.
I am an electronics engineer (now systems teacher) and I really think the level of skill required was excessive for this exam.
Written by someone from a university?
What do other Systems teachers think about the exam content, wording and examples?
Regards,
Brendan D’Arcy (TNBD)
Senior School Teacher
VCE Systems Engineering,
Level A-E Design & Systems Technology and Mathematics Kardinia International College PO Box 17, Geelong, Victoria, 3220, Australia
Ph: +61 3 5278 9999 Fax: +61 3 5278 9529 I b.darcy at kardinia.vic.edu.au Click to find KIC I https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kardinia.vic.edu.au&data=02%7C01%7Crknight%40stpats.vic.edu.au%7C5dc160c3713a44bd540108d76bf8f416%7Ce037dac0bdd4497d9ef79442978a163d%7C0%7C1%7C637096589324999011&sdata=NINSRqNvGhhirZmFLSo6qOQesQho09OgWhjAvC6sJXo%3D&reserved=0 I
-----Original Message-----
From: destech [mailto:destech-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of destech-request at edulists.com.au
Sent: Friday, 15 November 2019 9:21 AM
To: destech at edulists.com.au
Subject: destech Digest, Vol 174, Issue 11
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Today's Topics:
1. Technician job (Royale, Melissa M)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2019 22:23:08 +0000
From: "Royale, Melissa M" <royale.melissa.m at edumail.vic.gov.au>
To: "destech at edulists.com.au" <destech at edulists.com.au>
Subject: [Design and Technology] Technician job
Message-ID: <95af122ee12d4c75a58e453c1123cd8e at edumail.vic.gov.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Patterson River Secondary College is currently advertising the positon of Design Technology Technician. Please forward the following link to anyone who may be interested:
https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fschooljobs.education.vic.gov.au%2Fpsc%2FROLPPRD1_EA%2FAPPLICANT%2FHRMS%2Fc%2FHRS_HRAM.HRS_APP_SCHJOB.GBL%3FPage%3DHRS_APP_JBPST%26Action%3DU%26FOCUS%3DApplicant%26SiteId%3D1%26JobOpeningId%3D1176931%26PostingSeq%3D1%26utm_source%3Djoraau%26utm_campaign%3Djoraau%26utm_medium%3Dorganic&data=02%7C01%7Crknight%40stpats.vic.edu.au%7C5dc160c3713a44bd540108d76bf8f416%7Ce037dac0bdd4497d9ef79442978a163d%7C0%7C1%7C637096589324999011&sdata=vRCZuxlAL1Y83P4pQuHGIHcW6ysiT%2FIcszM237KMjwU%3D&reserved=0
For enquiries please contact Lisa Cavey, Acting Principles, (03) 8770 6700, cavey.lisa.l at edumail.vic.gov.au
Regards,
Melissa Royale
Design Technology Domain Leader
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