[Year 12 SofDev] Reply: XML Definition

Mon Oct 11 05:21:57 UTC 2021

Agree though - I refer to them as nodes
I think what I would teach here is to draw it as the nodes on the exam because then its clear name has less structure and relevance
This is where I feel that the writers aren't experts and get it wrong more than I like
There was a DA question last year that so many students got wrong because there were 3 terms and 3 key areas - most students used one for each but the answer used 1 in 2 answers - it's like a trick question.

-----Original Message-----
From: sofdev <sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au> On Behalf Of Simon Dorrat
Sent: Monday, 11 October 2021 4:11 PM
To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] Reply: XML Definition

Hi Janene

Thanks for your answer.  Also others who have replied along similar lines re recognising the structure of a record being one that is broken down into sub elements, as various types in a programming language might be or a database table has rows and columns (analogous to records and fields).

However I am still a little worried.  Your explanation makes sense, it's just that it's nothing referred to in the XML Spec and the examiner's answer requires the student to be specific.  I think you could mount an argument that if you are going to use the term "field" you could apply it to the name element as well, as it is an element that forms part of the root element.  Why is the use of the term "field" going to be related to the inferred importance of the data?

In industry we often used colloquial terms for things like this but they varied depending on who you talked to and it was easy to clarify where there was confusion.  To be marking based on it when it isn't an official part of any definition, such as the XML specification (https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fxml%2F&data=04%7C01%7CJanene.Watt%40education.vic.gov.au%7C47fc24d93ab64a4ee64108d98c758e3e%7Cd96cb3371a8744cfb69b3cec334a4c1f%7C0%7C0%7C637695260066115251%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=Pa%2FcX2JSvj0RJD2CUBVyBD9j%2FtiMIaXSc5bBPIgucqo%3D&reserved=0)  or W3Schools (https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3schools.com%2Fxml%2F&data=04%7C01%7CJanene.Watt%40education.vic.gov.au%7C47fc24d93ab64a4ee64108d98c758e3e%7Cd96cb3371a8744cfb69b3cec334a4c1f%7C0%7C0%7C637695260066125212%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=UOAYFOR8VAxRF%2BUcDojoeEX5iOdjSuNKhIEGunUE3Lw%3D&reserved=0 ), or when the application of the terms is difficult to pin down, is a little dangerous.  I'm not against nuance in the content and the questions but think this is a little unfair to students.

Thanks again for your response - I think it's really helpful to share our perspectives

Simon Dorrat
DATA MENTOR | TEACHER OF DIGITAL TECHNOLOGIES | MATHEMATICS Bosco Campus
10 Bosco St Chadstone 3148
T +61 3 9807 2644
E  sdorrat at salesian.vic.edu.au
W salesian.vic.edu.au

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Sent: Monday, 11 October 2021 1:03 PM
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Subject: sofdev Digest, Vol 197, Issue 3

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: XML Definitions (Janene Watt)

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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 02:33:45 +0000
From: Janene Watt <Janene.Watt at education.vic.gov.au>
To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] XML Definitions
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<ME3PR01MB8130A65956544466AA2F99199BB59 at ME3PR01MB8130.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

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HI Simon / edulist

There's two main parts for me - examiner comment about what a field is -> Field is <staffid> i.e. what is exactly inside the <>

Then in terms of XML For me it is thinking of this as structured data or programming  hierarchy(i.e. like a database record) and the what type of data are you collecting and structuring and what is it's value.

In this example name is just like a form heading - its just simple data that has no real value. Its superficial in its value.

The 3 fields that make up staff id (and the child elements) are effectively the main data that you are collecting because it is the data that you are collecting about each person in that company. The indenting and the parent-child relationship makes this important data because someone has taken the time to structure this to get more details. The people in the company in this case are critical to know. The name is less important but it could still be linked because all these people are part of the same organisation. If company name was part of the staff id attribute then it would have the same importance.

Lastly and maybe not important but I see it as a clue to the answer, Name is not repeated (tells me that its descriptive but less valuable data) and its not likely to be captured more than once.

Regards
Janene

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From: sofdev <sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au> On Behalf Of Simon Dorrat
Sent: Monday, 11 October 2021 12:05 PM
To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] XML Definitions

Hi all

Looking over a previous exam the question below appears.  I haven't ever seen an official definition of what a "field" is.  The only official naming of the structural components of XML is "elements" and "attributes".  People sometimes refer to some parts of XML as records, when an element contains other nested elements, and so the components of the record could maybe be called fields, but is this actually accurate?

Looking at the example below (from the 2018 exam I think), I am assuming that the three answers are given because the staffname and salary are explicit elements nested inside staffid, and because the staffid uses an attribute this also be classed as a field, within the staffid record (which is sort of an implied staff record).  This logic seems vague and shaky and I would like to be able to explain it better to students.  Also to be able to answer the question of why "name" is not a field.

Apologies if this is the wrong forum for this type of question.

Thanks
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Simon Dorrat
DATA MENTOR | TEACHER OF DIGITAL TECHNOLOGIES | MATHEMATICS Bosco Campus
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T +61 3 9807 2644
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