[Year 12 SofDev] Diagrams in the SRS - of which system?

[Adrian Janson]

Me too!! (sorry Mark - that was for you!)

OK - my 2c worth.

By definition an SRS is a tool that is used to lay out the specifications
that will be required to be addressed by a new system. It is not a design
tool and is the result of analysis that is done to determine the needs of
the organisation in regards to their information system. I feel like
everyone agrees on this point - so it's probably not necessary to harp on
it too much more.

However, the investigation of the existing system - network diagram, UCD,
DFDs and other tools that might be used - are all necessary to get a feel
for what the existing system does and doesn't do. While I understand where
Mark is coming from with his analogy, I feel that coming into an
organisation as a contracted IT professional and being handed an SRS and
being told to get to work is not realistic. You need to have an
understanding of what is in existence.

What elements of the existing information system will be kept and
integrated with the new system?
How will the implementation of the new system impact on what is already in
place?

Without that understanding (yes - looking back to look forward), I don't
see how you can possibly begin designing a new system. Many of us have done
LMS changeovers or large scale implementations and have been on staff for
years prior - and even in this case, it would be a brave person who would
design a new system without strongly documenting the existing system first.

Cheers,
Adrian Janson

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Mark <mark at vceit.com> wrote:

> Hi all
>
> Yes, the SRS is about analysis, but why are people assuming that the
> *existing* system is being analysed?
>
> It's the *new/proposed/modified system's requirements* that are being
> analysed in order to define what it should be able to accomplish.
> An old system may be used as a reference point to find points of
> weakness/deficiency/failure but only so the new system can be be defined
> properly.
>
> Diagramming the old system is pointless, IMO.
> If your computer blows up and you need to research potential new systems,
> you would describe your needs for the *new* computer.
> You don't create a set of diagrams that carefully explain all the
> functions and features of the *old* computer.
>
> Let's say you are a software designer or developer hired to work on a new
> project. You are given an SRS.
> In it, you find intricate DFDs, UCDs and CDs explaining the workings of
> the system that you have been hired to replace.
> How could that possibly be useful to you?
> The only logical and useful information you want is a description of the
> new, proposed system.
> It probably will have information drawn from the existing system, but such
> information will be incorporated into a diagram that shows the needs of the
> *new* system.
> An SRS is meant to be a plan for the future, not a history lesson.
>
> Here are some more VCAA exam references that clearly point to SRS diagrams
> referring to the new system...
>
> 2016 - C3 - the UCD is describing what the patient "*should be able to*"
> do.  Not what they can currently do in the existing system.
> 2014-B5- the UCD is said to "*show the stated requirements*" of the "new
> software".
>
> Sidebar:
> As with all such discussions, messages like "*I agree with Fred. A DFD
> should describe the [old/new] system.*" annoy me because they don't
> achieve anything.
> IT theory is not a democracy. Ideas are not correct because a majority of
> people agree with them. If so, we'd still be burning witches.
> To argue a case, please provide evidence, not just "Me too" posts or
> unsubstantiated opinions.
>
> Regards,
> Mark
>
>
>
> On 20 March 2017 at 10:22, ATKINSON-BUCK, Damien <
> Damien.ATKINSON-BUCK at ivanhoe.com.au> wrote:
>
>> I agree, in a real world situation, I would use a DFD for designing the
>> new program, but the study design states on page 15 that they are in the
>> analysis phase. So until that changes, I’ll stick with the mantra of them
>> being purely as an analysis tool and teach students to construct them as
>> such.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Damien Atkinson-Buck*
>> Member of Academic Staff (Secondary).
>>
>> [image: http://www.ivanhoe.com.au] <http://www.ivanhoe.com.au/>
>>
>> The Ridgeway, Ivanhoe VIC 3079 Australia
>>
>> p. +61 3 9490 3848
>>
>> e. damien.atkinson-buck at ivanhoe.com.au
>>
>> w. www.ivanhoe.com.au
>>
>> <http://www.facebook.com/IvanhoeGrammarSchool>
>> <http://twitter.com/ivanhoegrammar>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulist
>> s.com.au] *On Behalf Of *David Dawson
>> *Sent:* Monday, 20 March 2017 10:01 AM
>>
>> *To:* Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List <
>> sofdev at edulists.com.au>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Diagrams in the SRS - of which system?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi All
>>
>> I am actually a little surprised to read that so many of us seem to think
>> that an SRS is not for the PROPOSED system.
>>
>> All of the top ten links in Google for “Purpose of an SRS” – show that
>> the SRS is specifically for the NEW system being developed – to set the
>> parameters for the later detailed Design of the new system.
>>
>> When I did one of these SRS for my industry project in 3rd year uni – it
>> had details in terms of UML and DFDs that went all the way to describing
>> the code (eventually). This was all for the system we were developing.
>>
>> WikiPedia starts with :
>>
>> A *software requirements specification* (SRS) is a description of a software
>> system <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_system> *to be developed*.
>> It lays out functional
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_requirement> and non-functional
>> requirements <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-functional_requirements>,
>> and may include a set of use cases
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_case> that describe* user
>> interactions that the software must provide*.
>>
>> (bold text is mine)
>>
>> At RMIT the students are currently doing SRS for the systems they are
>> developing – not for old systems. In my opinion, in the real world it would
>> be a complete waste of time and resources to do an SRS for an old system.
>> The SRS describes fully the system to be developed.
>>
>> Of course company goals need to be considered, along with the old system
>> in an Investigation (Observation and mapping of what happens in the old
>> system) and Feasibility Analysis stage – but I struggle to see this
>> material appearing in an SRS defining the new system.
>>
>> However, I will say that in the past I have had students do DFDs for BOTH
>> systems – when an old one was to be replaced!
>>
>> I have attached a “simple” SRS downloaded from University of Texas –
>> which mentions nothing of the old system.
>>
>> Why can’t students do this SRS for their NEW system? I also have a few
>> developing a game – which will make this even more problematic.
>>
>>
>>
>> David Dawson
>>
>> [image: logo]
>>
>>
>> * David Dawson* | Head of Learning Technologies, Head of Design and
>> Technology
>>
>> *Wesley College Melbourne*
>> Tel: + 61 3 8102 6340 <+61%203%208102%206340> |  Mob: + 61 425 718 147
>> <+61%20425%20718%20147>
>>
>> Email: david.dawson at wesleycollege.net
>>
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>> *Visit our website *www.w <http://www.wesleycollege.net>esleycollege.net
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulist
>> s.com.au <sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au>] *On Behalf Of *ATKINSON-BUCK,
>> Damien
>> *Sent:* Monday, 20 March 2017 9:10 AM
>> *To:* Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>> *Subject:* Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Diagrams in the SRS - of which system?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Tony,
>>
>> I’d suggest that anything (with the *possible* exception of a new game)
>> has an existing system of some sort. If the student has found a real client
>> that wants something done, then they would have to currently do it somehow.
>> Do you have an example?
>>
>> The student I have that is having the most difficulty with getting this
>> into a diagram is looking at his pantry stock for expiry dates, but even
>> still the existing system is a manual one. He had to do some lateral
>> thinking to get it, but it was there.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Damien
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Damien Atkinson-Buck*
>> Member of Academic Staff (Secondary).
>>
>> [image: http://www.ivanhoe.com.au] <http://www.ivanhoe.com.au/>
>>
>> The Ridgeway, Ivanhoe VIC 3079 Australia
>>
>> p. +61 3 9490 3848
>>
>> e. damien.atkinson-buck at ivanhoe.com.au
>>
>> w. www.ivanhoe.com.au
>>
>> <http://www.facebook.com/IvanhoeGrammarSchool>
>> <http://twitter.com/ivanhoegrammar>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulist
>> s.com.au <sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au>] On Behalf Of Tony Crewe
>> Sent: Monday, 20 March 2017 8:22 AM
>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List <
>> sofdev at edulists.com.au>
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Diagrams in the SRS - of which system?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Phil,
>>
>>
>>
>> As you will see from previous discussions, what if the need or
>> opportunity has no existing system - manual or digital. Do students just
>> omit that analysis without penalty?
>>
>> Then do their requirements, scope etc for their proposed solution.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 20 Mar 2017, at 8:14 am, Feain, Philip A <
>> feain.philip.a at edumail.vic.gov.au> wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Dear All
>>
>> >
>>
>> > That's the existing information system for the diagrams and proposed
>> solution for the SRS. The diagrams can go in the appendices of the SRS.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Kind Regards
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Phil Feain.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> >
>>
>> >> On 20 Mar 2017, at 8:06 am, Feain, Philip A <
>> feain.philip.a at edumail.vic.gov.au> wrote:
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> Dear All
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> I have to agree with James. We are talking about the existing system
>> for analysis. Students will draw the required diagrams and the do the SRS.
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> Kind Regards
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> Phil Feain.
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >>> On 19 Mar 2017, at 2:58 pm, Vella, James <jvella at mackillop.vic.edu.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> The diagrams should be of the existing system or process.
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> Regardless of whether students are looking to meet a need or
>> opportunity, there is almost always some existing system or manual process
>> in place.
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> The SRS is part of the Analysis stage - not the Design stage.
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> Regards
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> James
>>
>> >>> ________________________________________
>>
>> >>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>
>> >>> <sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au> on behalf of
>>
>> >>> sofdev-request at edulists.com.au <sofdev-request at edulists.com.au>
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>> >>> Sent: Saturday, 18 March 2017 12:00 PM
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>> >>> Subject: sofdev Digest, Vol 144, Issue 18
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>> >>>
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> 1. Diagrams in the SRS - of which system? (Lisa Kerekes) 2. Re:
>>
>> >>> Diagrams in the SRS - of which system? (Tony Crewe)
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> >>> --
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> Message: 1
>>
>> >>> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 03:14:21 +0000
>>
>> >>> From: Lisa Kerekes <Lisa.Kerekes at donvale.vic.edu.au>
>>
>> >>> Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] Diagrams in the SRS - of which system?
>>
>> >>> To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
>>
>> >>>      <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
>>
>> >>> Message-ID:
>>
>> >>>      <c112a04d34714ca78b79283e0f369dfb at MAIL03.donvale.vic.edu.au>
>>
>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> Hi all,
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> Just seeking clarification/confirmation as to whether the diagrams
>>
>> >>> in the SRS (the Use Case & Context & DFDs) - ought to be
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> -        of the client's existing system (if they have one)
>>
>> >>> or
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> -        of the student's proposed solution
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> I guess I'm asking whether the diagrams are more useful to be drawn
>> so students can grasp how the current system works ... or to plan how their
>> solution should function.
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> Page 2 of VCAA's Admin Info for SBA<http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au
>> /Documents/vce/SBA_General.pdf> suggests that the majority of the SRS is
>> written to describe the new solution, based on data collected about the
>> existing one. "An analysis that defines the requirements, constraints and
>> scope of a solution in the form of a software requirements specification"
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> Assessment Criteria 3 reads:
>>
>> >>> "Draws a set of logical conclusions with most being consistent with
>> the data represented in the analytical tools."
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> Thanks,
>>
>> >>> Lisa Kerekes
>>
>> >>> Secondary Teacher (Computing, Media)
>>
>> >>> Phone: (03) 9844 2471 Ext: 266
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>>
>> >>> scrubbed...
>>
>> >>> URL:
>>
>> >>> http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/sofdev/attachments/20170317/6b1
>>
>> >>> 588f3/attachment-0001.html
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> ------------------------------
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> Message: 2
>>
>> >>> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 03:26:58 +0000
>>
>> >>> From: Tony Crewe <TonyCrewe at caulfieldgs.vic.edu.au>
>>
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Diagrams in the SRS - of which system?
>>
>> >>> To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
>>
>> >>>      <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
>>
>> >>> Message-ID:
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> <SYXPR01MB022351185852B381E5DA06B7CF390 at SYXPR01MB0223.ausprd01.prod.
>>
>> >>> outlook.com>
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> I think best for proposed solution,
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> A number of students create solution based on a need or opportunity
>> rather than an existingsituation  in any case.
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> Tony
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>>
>> >>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
>> <sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au>] On Behalf Of Lisa Kerekes
>>
>> >>> Sent: Friday, 17 March 2017 2:14 PM
>>
>> >>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>
>> >>> <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
>>
>> >>> Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] Diagrams in the SRS - of which system?
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> Hi all,
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> Just seeking clarification/confirmation as to whether the diagrams
>>
>> >>> in the SRS (the Use Case & Context & DFDs) - ought to be
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> -          of the client's existing system (if they have one)
>>
>> >>> or
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> -          of the student's proposed solution
>>
>> >>> I guess I'm asking whether the diagrams are more useful to be drawn
>> so students can grasp how the current system works ... or to plan how their
>> solution should function.
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> Page 2 of VCAA's Admin Info for SBA<http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au
>> /Documents/vce/SBA_General.pdf> suggests that the majority of the SRS is
>> written to describe the new solution, based on data collected about the
>> existing one. "An analysis that defines the requirements, constraints and
>> scope of a solution in the form of a software requirements specification"
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> Assessment Criteria 3 reads:
>>
>> >>> "Draws a set of logical conclusions with most being consistent with
>> the data represented in the analytical tools."
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> Thanks,
>>
>> >>> Lisa Kerekes
>>
>> >>> Secondary Teacher (Computing, Media)
>>
>> >>> Phone: (03) 9844 2471 Ext: 266
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>>
>> >>> scrubbed...
>>
>> >>> URL:
>>
>> >>> http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/sofdev/attachments/20170317/6b5
>>
>> >>> 64adc/attachment-0001.html
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> ------------------------------
>>
>> >>>
>>
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>>
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