[Year 12 SofDev] Databases in SD

Sun Jun 24 09:55:13 EST 2012

Hi David,

  Speaking of authentic learning, my students ( the clients of the solutions
such as  Parent teacher interview booking online system ) have carried out
the User Acceptance Testing and given feedback that has been used to modify
the solution.  The admin have given their own feedback on summary data needs
and this has also been used for improvement purposes. This has fed into
discussion about testing and the follow up to user feedback.  

Isn't this what the teaching should strive to deliver ? Experiential and
authentic learning ? 

I agree about normalisation not being necessary as it is not essential with
the programming. 

 With the programming, students are still required to understand and
implement data types ( and casting ) , selection, iteration , looping,
function calls with parameter passing. OOP is introduced with inheritance
only for demonstration purposes but a few students have programmed in this
way.

Speak soon

Kevork Krozian

Edulists Creator Administrator

www.edulists.com.au

tel: 0419 356 034

From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
On Behalf Of David Mitchell
Sent: Saturday, 23 June 2012 9:19 PM
To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Databases in SD

Well articulated Kevork. I agree whole heartedly. We are one of the few year
12 subjects that can use authentic learning without hampering timeframes /
skimping on content that is directly related to industry.

If our students are looking at programming as a career, building interfaces
that utilise MySQL or Microsoft SQL servers are pretty much a given when
developing data driven systems. We wouldn't need to look at the
normalisation of databases / SQL scripts but could provide a base for
students to link into and then manipulate as necessary.

I would fully support bringing back the use of databases, simply as a direct
link to authentic learning!

Kind regards,

Dave

Description: signature

From: Kevork Krozian <kevork at edulists.com.au>
Reply-To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
<sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Date: Saturday, 23 June 2012 8:53 PM
To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
<sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Databases in SD

Hi Mark,

Perhaps we need to shift this to the SD list, hence the redirection.

There was a genuine issue with some languages having IDEs that allowed a
wizard driven connection to database storage.  Hence the ban on use of
databases. 

My position as a teacher of SD, and no more than that, is one where a
solution built to operate on a network ( prototype or full implementation )
implies multi user, implies a large number of people.

The SD course has brought in a larger and deeper look at networks, security,
multi users and multiple access devices ( mobile, desktop, wireless etc ).

I will leave it up to the advocates of "files are best in that environment"
to make their case. In fact, I have nothing against anyone who wishes to use
files. I do have a problem with the fact my students are prevented from
using  database technologies in Yr 12. Specifically MySQL with PHP.  They
can use Python and MySQL as well for what it is worth. 

I speak from the perspective of having built school wide solutions in the
very context that the Study Design describes ( 1500 users, remote and local
access, security, mobile devices, multiple OSs, etc ).  Examples include
Parent Teacher interviews bookings online, submission and monitoring and
allocating Extras for teachers absent and away from school, Resource booking
systems and monitoring and logging of web traffic through the school
internet connections. 

Each of these have been built with PHP and MySQL and not files for storage.
The web interface has meant one solution works for all devices rather than
multiple apps ( xcode for ipad and iphone, java for android etc before we
discuss MAC vs Windows laptops, desktops. Some of these solutions have been
purchased by other schools.

My students have seen these solutions built, developed and deployed before
their eyes. The solutions have not been focussed on the database. The
programming has neither been trivial nor wizard driven.  In fact in Yr 11
the students have built, simpler versions of these. They use Dreamweaver for
the html and CSS. The PHP is written in Notepad++ and MySQL statements are
inserted to interact with the database. They really enjoy it. Incidentally
we have also explored privacy and related issues with these solutions. 

They have asked why they can't do this in Yr 12 and have to use files. This
experiential learning is not available to them in their own demonstration of
learning and assessment. 

In fact, I also teach the Diploma in IT Networking ICA50411. One of the
units is titled ICAWEB502A Create dynamic web pages .  This requires use of
server side and client side programming. Quite similar to what the Yr 11
students achieved with some extensions. This is neither trivial, nor wizard
driven. 

I will not be losing sleep over this issue. But, the driver for it was to
improve the poor student scores in the written exam on the algorithm
questions. I believe these have not improved this year despite the banning
of databases.  I am happy for teachers of other databases to make their own
case since I am not supporting wizard driven database interaction, but where
is the rationale for banning my use of MySQL as a database in SD now ?

Speak soon

Kevork Krozian

SD teacher

Ringwood SC

From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au]
On Behalf Of Mark KELLY
Sent: Saturday, 23 June 2012 2:44 PM
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] RDBMS systems

P'raps not so much irony as much as concentrating each study on its core
business.  

ITA is about databases, so MySQL is valid. 

SD is about programming, but apparently too many people were turning it into
a database programming exercise and losing track of programming
fundamentals.

I can see VCAA's point in explicitly banning database extensions in SD: it
certainly seemed to be distracting people towards the end of the previous
study design.

On 22 June 2012 22:28, Brett Groves <groves.brett.g at edumail.vic.gov.au>
wrote:

A delicious irony that we can teach MySQL in Applications but not in
Software Development, sighs, reaches for red wine.....

Regards,
Brett Groves
ICT Manager
Croydon Maroondah College - Croydon Campus

On 15/06/12 13:29, Roland Gesthuizen wrote: 

I have been a bit quiet this year (only teaching year 11 IT) 

Was hugely surprised at the ISTE conferences in the USA how large FMP is
overseas, especially in the education sector. I think the past dominance of
MS Access is perhaps a local thing.

Crikey, wasn't always been like that. I still remember teaching DBase III
and in some ways, it seemed to be a more explicit towards teaching databases
and computational thinking. I rediscovered this when I revisited the PHP SQL
programming in Kevorks splendid book.

Regards Roland

On 12/06/2012, at 12:01 PM, Laurie Savage wrote:

Outside of the Arts/Design world do you know of any major users or large
scale deployments of FMP?

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-- 
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