[Year 12 SofDev] sofdev Digest, Vol 68, Issue 42
Brett Groves
groves.brett.g at edumail.vic.gov.au
Thu Nov 25 10:56:02 EST 2010
My take Russell:
I'm probably one of the ones who struggles with SD with out using
databases. Perhaps that comes from my orientation, which is toward web
applications and really how many web applications can you name beyond
the very simple that don't use a MySQL or SQL database?.
I think this is where the network emphasis comes in, really it's just
implying that your data source and data processing happen in physically
or logically separate containers. Makes no difference whether there's a
LAN or WAN or a WWW between them.
But to exclude database coding to me is a retrograde step. Why teach
where technology is not headed? (That's real technology I mean not the
shiny IPad 'gee I want one' kind). I still remember going into my first
Chemistry lecture in first year uni and being introduced to the
Heisenberg uncertainty principle and the anger at finding out the last
four iterations of the atomic model taught at high school were all
rubbish. Why didn't they just start where at the end? I suspect switched
on SD kids we be asking themselves the same question about database
access (sans Schrodingers cat).
There's a lot of Xmas break learnin' to be done UML.....SRS.......Use
Cases.......head swimming............reaches for cab merlot!
It seems there is a continental drift of the study design towards an
absolute emphasis on theory and less and less on being able to do
anything with a wow factor that can pull in less motivated kids.
But indeed Russell we are blessed to have Saint Mark and Saint Adrian
who have both unwittingly rescued me from serious many times over.
Cheers
Brett
On 25/11/10 09:48, Russell Quinn wrote:
> Thanks Mark for the thoughts, your an outstanding resource.
> Unless contradicted, I will take your views as the official VCAA position.
>
> As always I am shocked and distressed at the lack of specificity
> (a Rudd word?) in the VCAA course descriptors. This is an outstanding
> example, the use-case thing seems to be another.
>
> I have never used database solutions in SD. The study design
> did not appear to require it, so I have always used files as data sources.
> Last year I got the students to download the post code file and reformat it
> as a data source for the address. A bit of fun and exactly what happens in
> the "real" world (teaching of course having no relationship to the real world).
> I recall an email a few years ago, I cannot recall who, but their position seemed to be
> that they could not imagine doing SD without databases. I took the opposite position
> in that I thought there was more basic learning to be got from a file based system.
>
> I am just a bit puzzled as to why there is so much emphasis on networks
> in the theory, and it is totally forgotten in the practise. I assume it is a trendy thing.
> I note that Adrian's previous book (an outstanding resource - thanks Adrian) devoted pages to
> data structures including algorithms for queues, so it seems natural to
> include these issues into the term 3 coding. Otherwise, why put them in? I would have
> thought the fact that we are not radio linking to web sites but rather building on C: would
> make it relevant and easy to at least consider at least lock files. "They" are always going on about
> relevance in education, it seems to be an opportunity. The coding is not that difficult, its just
> decisions and loops, a bit like a logon screen.
>
> The above discussion is not a shot at Mark, we are very lucky to have him and I appreciate his
> input. In practise, the coding I do depends upon the students sitting in the class in that year.
> Being lucky enough to work in an accelerated school, I come across students who are already
> expert in limited fields of IT. I am, as always, puzzled and confused by the course descriptors.
>
> Regards,
>
> Russell Quinn
> ________________________________________
> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au [sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of sofdev-request at edulists.com.au [sofdev-request at edulists.com.au]
> Sent: Wednesday, 24 November 2010 8:12 PM
> To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
> Subject: sofdev Digest, Vol 68, Issue 42
>
> Send sofdev mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Concurrency Issues (Mark KELLY)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 20:11:42 +1100
> From: Mark KELLY<kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Concurrency Issues
> To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
> <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTinFfJ=eNb+nM+060eTuV_bEfH85ZFj6dTYDYq2s at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> As a rule, you'd be surprised how *little* programming skill is required to
> do well in SD outcomes.
>
> It's really *not* rocket surgery.
>
> The new study design, for example, bends over backwards to stress that
> students are *not* to worry about database integration or configuring a
> software module to interact with an OS API.
>
> See the sample outcomes in the study design. They specifically exclude the
> need to interact with "live" modules like those that send data from a
> portable device to a website.
>
> The theory is, as in all VCE subjects, the dominant factor.
>
> Focus on programming *fundamentals*. Don't get distracted by current
> implementations which could be out of date in 18 months as paradigms
> continue to shift.
>
> Loops, logic, variables, arrays, objects, events : they're not likely to go
> away in a hurry. Concentrate on them.
>
> 2.3c worth (an extra 0.2 cents for GST, 0.1c for passion)
>
> Mark
>
> On 24 November 2010 13:57, Russell Quinn<QN at boxhillhs.vic.edu.au> wrote:
>
>
>> Ta for your views..
>>
>> I was actually wondering if the course writers or
>> examiners had a view on if concurrency was seen
>> as examinable. There is allot of stress on the network
>> environment but I cannot see any formal statement on
>> concurrency, but I cannot see how to avoid it either.
>>
>> Regarding the queue, I think it could be managed as
>> at the application level, provided the file was only
>> accessible through the application. A bit like a portal
>> to the file. Since the course talks about queues, I thought
>> it might be fun to use one, even if a bit contrived.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Russell Quinn
>> ________________________________________
>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au [sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On
>> Behalf Of sofdev-request at edulists.com.au [sofdev-request at edulists.com.au]
>> Sent: Wednesday, 24 November 2010 12:00 PM
>> To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
>> Subject: sofdev Digest, Vol 68, Issue 40
>>
>> Send sofdev mailing list submissions to
>> sofdev at edulists.com.au
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>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/sofdev
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: PSM part 2 (Mark KELLY)
>> 2. Re: Concurrency Issues (Mark KELLY)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 08:42:26 +1100
>> From: Mark KELLY<kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] PSM part 2
>> To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
>> <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
>> Message-ID:
>> <AANLkTinQ19+1-Ujy7p_VxRkSkXdq-PrtBNZ097EQvUdG at mail.gmail.com<AANLkTinQ19%2B1-Ujy7p_VxRkSkXdq-PrtBNZ097EQvUdG at mail.gmail.com>
>>
>>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>
>> Agree. The PSM discussion in the study design refers to use cases in both
>> the analysis and design phases. I reckon it shouldn't be in the latter.
>>
>> On 23 November 2010 16:28, Kevork Krozian<K.Krozian at fhc.vic.edu.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hi Mark and friends,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting from one of my favourite series ? UML 2 for Dummies? p 151;
>>>
>>> ? Most developers use use cases as artifacts of analysis. Use cases
>>>
>> should
>>
>>> be used to specify the required behaviours of your system not capture
>>>
>> design
>>
>>> of your system. Design decisions change often; implementations change
>>>
>> even
>>
>>> oftener (sic)?
>>>
>>> ..............
>>>
>>> ? Separating analysis from design also frees your test team to start
>>> developing their test plans directly from the use cases ? knowing that
>>>
>> the
>>
>>> use case will be (relatively) stable, knowing that they will be able to
>>>
>> test
>>
>>> the functionality of the system directly from the use case.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Logical design is in the analysis phase and Physical design in the design
>>> phase. Use cases describe *what* , not *how* . *How* is worked out later
>>> in the design phase.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So, the statement Use cases as being a useful tool to use during physical
>>> design can only make sense if it is used to inform *how* your design
>>> should proceed based on the *what* you want to get done from the
>>>
>> completed
>>
>>> analysis .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My 2c worth.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind Regards
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kevork Krozian
>>>
>>> Digital Learning Manager
>>>
>>> Forest Hill College
>>>
>>> www.fhc.vic.edu.au
>>>
>>> tel: 0419 356 034
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:
>>> sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Mark KELLY
>>> *Sent:* Monday, 22 November 2010 11:18 AM
>>> *To:* Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>> *Subject:* [Year 12 SofDev] PSM part 2
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi all. The study design's PSM discussion lists Use Cases as being a
>>> useful tool to use during *physical design*.
>>>
>>> I would have thought they would be a *logical* design tool since they are
>>> so abstract and emphasise functionality requirements rather than
>>> implementation methods.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mark Kelly
>>> Manager Information Systems
>>> Reporting Manager
>>> IT Learning Area Manager
>>>
>>> McKinnon Secondary College
>>> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204
>>> Victoria, Australia
>>> Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085
>>> Fax +613 9578 9253
>>> kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>>
>>> VCE IT Lecture Notes: http://vceit.com
>>> Moderator: IT Applications Edulist
>>>
>>> My cow died on this day two years ago. I know because I noted it in my
>>> dairy.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, Subscribe, Unsubscribe
>>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
>>>
>> Authority
>>
>>> and
>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html
>>> http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology
>>>
>> Teachers
>>
>>> Association Inc
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Kelly
>> Manager Information Systems
>> Reporting Manager
>> IT Learning Area Manager
>>
>> McKinnon Secondary College
>> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204
>> Victoria, Australia
>> Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085
>> Fax +613 9578 9253
>> kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>
>> VCE IT Lecture Notes: http://vceit.com
>> Moderator: IT Applications Edulist
>>
>> My cow died on this day two years ago. I know because I noted it in my
>> dairy.
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 10:02:09 +1100
>> From: Mark KELLY<kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Concurrency Issues
>> To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
>> <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
>> Message-ID:
>> <AANLkTi=L7XpeRgk8jYCuAQvDOExpgnw0JbbAsaxJMtgk at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Locking a file or record was as far as I went with coping with networked
>> programming. Kids can be responsible for that within their little bit of
>> code.
>>
>> Managing a queue for access to files would, I believe, be beyond the scope
>> of what is expected of students. Such control would have to be outside of
>> their code, and be OS-dependent, wouldn't it?
>>
>>
>> On 23 November 2010 14:13, Russell Quinn<QN at boxhillhs.vic.edu.au> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> has anyone given thought to concurrency - since
>>> we are in a networked environment. Do we have
>>> to cater for locks and deadlocks, perhaps queues
>>> for access to files - esp during the coding SAC.
>>> I do not see any mention of these issues in the course
>>> statements, but I cannot see how you could do a good job
>>> in a network environment without looking at them.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Russell Quinn
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au [sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On
>>> Behalf Of sofdev-request at edulists.com.au [sofdev-request at edulists.com.au
>>>
>> ]
>>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 23 November 2010 1:04 PM
>>> To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
>>> Subject: sofdev Digest, Vol 68, Issue 36
>>>
>>> Send sofdev mailing list submissions to
>>> sofdev at edulists.com.au
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/sofdev
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. Royce Williams (Margaret Iaquinto)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 13:04:02 +1000
>>> From: Margaret Iaquinto<Margaret.Iaquinto at stleonards.vic.edu.au>
>>> Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] Royce Williams
>>> To: "List', 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing"
>>> <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
>>> Message-ID:<4CEBBBC2.E9D0.00E9.1 at stleonards.vic.edu.au>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15"
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I need to contact Royce Williams who used to work at Billanook. Would
>>> someone kindly contact me offlist with some details, please?
>>>
>>> Maggie
>>>
>>>
>>> Margaret Iaquinto
>>> Information Technology Coordinator
>>>
>>> St Leonard's College
>>> Brighton Campus
>>> t (+61 3) 9909 9300
>>>
>>> x 529
>>>
>>> www.stleonards.vic.edu.au
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Alternate email: maggie at iaquinto.net
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>>> **************************************
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, Subscribe, Unsubscribe
>>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
>>>
>> Authority
>>
>>> and
>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html
>>> http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology
>>>
>> Teachers
>>
>>> Association Inc
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Kelly
>> Manager Information Systems
>> Reporting Manager
>> IT Learning Area Manager
>>
>> McKinnon Secondary College
>> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204
>> Victoria, Australia
>> Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085
>> Fax +613 9578 9253
>> kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>
>> VCE IT Lecture Notes: http://vceit.com
>> Moderator: IT Applications Edulist
>>
>> My cow died on this day two years ago. I know because I noted it in my
>> dairy.
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>> End of sofdev Digest, Vol 68, Issue 40
>> **************************************
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, Subscribe, Unsubscribe
>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
>> and
>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html
>> http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers
>> Association Inc
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Mark Kelly
> Manager Information Systems
> Reporting Manager
> IT Learning Area Manager
>
> McKinnon Secondary College
> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204
> Victoria, Australia
> Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085
> Fax +613 9578 9253
> kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>
> VCE IT Lecture Notes: http://vceit.com
> Moderator: IT Applications Edulist
>
> My cow died on this day two years ago. I know because I noted it in my
> dairy.
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>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, Subscribe, Unsubscribe
> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html
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>
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