[Year 12 SofDev] sofdev Digest, Vol 68, Issue 14
Fowler, Lindsay
LF at cgs.vic.edu.au
Tue Nov 16 10:26:17 EST 2010
Thanks Guy,
You are quite right about AJAX being client side javascript. I have
tried the vi text editor and it wasn't for me, but respect to anyone
that has formed an intimate relationship with it:) I guess, Eclipse is
probably the best IDE at the moment but it's disappointing there is such
a void within Apple when it comes to web development.
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Subject: sofdev Digest, Vol 68, Issue 14
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Ipads in Schools + Web Dev on Macs Sofdev Digest, Vol 68,
Issue 9 (Guy Flaherty)
2. FW: Thanks to some amazing people (Kevork Krozian)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 22:10:36 +1100
From: "Guy Flaherty" <G.Flaherty at xavier.vic.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Ipads in Schools + Web Dev on Macs
Sofdev Digest, Vol 68, Issue 9
To: <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID: <20740946.2180.1289819414756.JavaMail.root at localhost>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hi all,
Interesting conversation about the Ipad. I wasn't even aware it didn't
support Java, which would make it problematic for us to use at Xavier
given our http proxy infrastructure depends on each student/teacher
running a Java applet to authenticate and manage their web access. Would
make it difficult for us to integrate them, let alone the fact that most
of the educational software we see is still created in Flash, and to a
lesser extent Java. My guess is that most of the educational publishers
are now madly scrambling to convert flash content into iOS enabled apps.
If you are "lucky" enough to have the opportunity to work with ipads I
imagine you will find a lot of educational content coming out next year
or the one after.
Apple have obviously made a conscious decision to move away from Java,
dropping WebObjects, not making XServes any more, no longer releasing
their own compiled version of Java for Macs, and with the trouble now
brewing around Oracle and their stewardship of the language, it looks
like being an "interesting" time for all things Java related.
As for Flash, I wouldn't rule it out till you see how widespread Android
becomes and how well their Flash support goes. Android is now the
second-most sold mobile OS behind Nokia's Symbian, and is also making
the biggest gains in market share at the moment. There are a lot of
Flash developers and fans out there, and I doubt all of them will want
stop using Flash and start learning Objective C, or anything else for
that matter. I am not sure if Objective C will even suit the needs of
many of the people currently using Flash, like for web based animation.
I am not sure that Ajax would generally use Java either Lindsay. These
days the term 'Ajax' is generally associated with Javascript on the
client side and only Google made much use of Java in their Google Web
Toolkit, which compiles to Javascript before it is run in a browser
anyway. I highly doubt Facebook uses much Java, but I am sure they use a
lot of Javascript ;)
If you are looking for generic IDE's then you could try Eclipse or
Netbeans. Both of these are Java software, one supported by IBM and the
other by Sun (Oracle now obviously), however both are open source
software. They are comparable to Visual Studio in that they offer a full
toolchain for software development. They are pretty heavy though. I used
Eclipse for a few years, then switched to Netbeans myself personally.
Now though I mainly just use a syntax aware text editor, vi or
occasionally emacs, as I much prefer speed and ease of use over lots of
features at the moment. Certainly Eclipse has a plugin for just about
any type of programming, and can be set up to do all kinds of stuff with
most modern programming languages. I suppose neither of these would work
on the Ipad. With my limited knowledge of the device it seems you have
no file-system access anyway, so would be hard to see how you could
actually use them to write much software in the first place. I guess you
could shell into a server and edit things over an X session, but then
you would be using the software on the server anyway. Perhaps someone
else has an idea of how you could use an Ipad to write software.
If you can stand taking some time, I highly recommend learning either vi
or emacs. Can be a little tough at first but once you spend a bit of
time you can become very productive. If you get good at them you will
rarely ever need an IDE again and will be able to program on almost any
platform currently in existence.
Guy Flaherty
Xavier College
>>> "Fowler, Lindsay" 15/11/10 5:02 PM >>>
Hi Kevork,
As I understand, java such as that used in Ajax is supported. Can you
log into facebook with your ipad through safari? I imagine yes as it
works on the iPhone.
I doubt Flash will ever be supported by iPad as it was never supported
on the iPhone, even though other companies like Nokia were including
basic Flash players. Whether or not you think thi
s is a bad thing, It
certainly suggests one thing: Flash is seven go so far as to predict
it'll be close to extinct in three years as
a result of Apple's decision. Who today would commission a website that
was not compatible with the iPhone? Adobe even went so far as to offer
to write a converter that allows Flash users to publish to the iTunes
Appstore. A complete backflip - not sure if it will land correctly.
Also, apparently Skyfire has made some app to convert Flash videos to
HTML 5 and play on the iphone but it is yet to be approved. At best,
this only works with flash video - certainly not interactive video
games.
Flash is still wisely supported in the latest version of Safari,
however.
As far as I can tell, the iPad is not suited to any kind of real
development. When it comes to web development, there are plenty of HTML
editors but just try to find a Web Dev IDE! I also asked the guys at a
big new Apple store complete with Genius Bar but they didn't seem to
have ever considered back end web development much less know anything
about it.
There is the Xcode IDE, which is great for developing applications in C,
but it doesn't run on the iPad. Macbooks can be used for developing PHP
sites by installing MAMP ( Mac apache server) and coding PHP in a text
editor. Not as much fun as Microsoft's Visual Web Dev in my humble
opinion.
Is there anyone out there who knows more about backend web dev with
Macs? Something other than PHP? I am very interested.
Thanks
Lindsay Fowler
LF at cgs.vic.edu.au
Information Technology and Mathematics
Camberwell Grammar School
? Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
-----Original Message-----
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of
sofdev-request at edulists.com.au
Sent: Sunday, 14 November 2010 11:44 AM
To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
Subject: sofdev Digest, Vol 68, Issue 9
Send sofdev mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Ipad in schools (Kevork Krozian)
2. Re: Ipad in schools (Don Morelli (Optus))
3. Re: Ipad in schools (Timmer-Arends)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 10:22:29 +1100
From: Kevork Krozian
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Ipad in schools
To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
Cc: elearning Teachers' Mailing List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Folks,
Sorry for cross posting but very topical for our elearning colleagues
...
I have spoken to 3 schools who are doing just this, Ipads at year 7 and
when I raise these concerns with Flash and Java not running I get a
blank stare.
Is there anyone out there who has considered the issues and found a
resolution/workaround or other approach apart from html5 will solve all
the problems which may or may not happen and may or may not take 3 to 5
years ....
Kind Regards
Kevork
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Don Morelli (Optus)
Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2010 6:45 PM
To: 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Ipad in schools
The decision has been made Allison which is unfortunate for your school
as not only does the iPad not support Flash but it also does not support
Java. So you can't run java apps like Geogebra in Maths, which is worth
its weight in gold. There are many programs that teachers use to help
students to understand concepts in particular learning areas that are
n
ot about communication, collaboration and research (some of how much of
the "cloud computing software " will run on it without
problems. Try running Mathletics and I think that you will have a
problem with that as well. I am sure that in the next year or so things
will change, but the range of activities that you can carry out on the
iPad now, that have educational value is limited.
Good luck in trying to develop a curriculum-at least it is only year 7
Cheers Don
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Allison KENINS
Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2010 6:00 PM
To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] Ipad in schools
Hi All
Sorry for not being specific to Software Development.
My school is introducing iPads to our incoming year 7's and throwing out
the textbooks in all subjects. As my other method is maths and this is a
concern to a few of the other teachers, I was wondering if anyone else's
school is doing something similar and wanting to know what you think.
Major concern for us is that we use lots of websites that are Flash
based and therefore wont work (as far as I've been told) and we now need
to redevelop our year 7 curriculum before the start of next year.
Any comments would be welcome.
Allison
Ringwood Secondary College
________________________________
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 10:54:12 +1100
From: "Don Morelli \(Optus\)"
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Ipad in schools
To: "'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'"
Message-ID: <000601cb838e$135d7e00$3a187a00$@com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Kevork, I went to an iPad breakfast and was told that they do support
Java
in browsers. Have not tested the truth of this but I have one and home
and
am going to try to run Geogebra (java based maths) and will let you know
how
I go.
However, disturbingly, the Apple person said that Steve Jobs had said in
some speech he made that the iPad would not support Flash and that this
has
been a deliberate decision. So does not sound promising from Apple and
it
may be a job for a 3rd party developer.
Cheers Don
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
On Behalf Of Kevork Krozian
Sent: Sunday, 14 November 2010 10:22 AM
To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
Cc: elearning Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Ipad in schools
Hi Folks,
Sorry for cross posting but very topical for our elearning colleagues
...
I have spoken to 3 schools who are doing just this, Ipads at year 7 and
when
I raise these concerns with Flash and Java not running I get a blank
stare.
Is there anyone out there who has considered the issues and found a
resolution/workaround or other approach apart from html5 will solve all
the
problems which may or may not happen and may or may not take 3 to 5
years
....
Kind Regards
Kevork
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
On Behalf Of Don Morelli (Optus)
Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2010 6:45 PM
To: 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Ipad in schools
The decision has been made Allison which is unfortunate for your school
as
not only does the iPad not support Flash but in gold. There are many
programs that teachers use to help students to
understand concepts in particular learning areas that are not about
communication, collaboration and research (some of the web 2.0 stuff).
These
will not run on the iPad. It will be interesting to see how much of the
"cloud computing software " will run on it without problems. Try
running
Mathletics and I think that you will have a problem with that as well.
I am
sure that in the next year or so things will change, but the range of
activities that you can carry out on the iPad now, that have educational
value is limited.
Good luck in trying to develop a curriculum-at least it is only year 7
Cheers Don
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
On Behalf Of Allison KENINS
Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2010 6:00 PM
To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] Ipad in schools
Hi All
Sorry for not being specific to Software Development.
My school is introducing iPads to our incoming year 7's and throwing out
the
textbooks in all subjects. As my other method is maths and this is a
concern
to a few of the other teachers, I was wondering if anyone else's school
is
doing something similar and wanting to know what you think. Major
concern
for us is that we use lots of websites that are Flash based and
therefore
wont work (as far as I've been told) and we now need to redevelop our
year 7
curriculum before the start of next year.
Any comments would be welcome.
Allison
Ringwood Secondary College
_____
Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
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using
attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss,
damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 11:30:37 +1100
From: "Timmer-Arends"
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Ipad in schools
To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Ipad in schoolsHello Kevork
the IT gurus at our place have had a careful look at the ipad, are
impressed, but are annoyed about the shortcomings and have decided to
wait for a machine who's name I can't remember (may samsung???) that is
going to run google's os - it's apparently every bit as good as the ipad
without the flash etc issues and will apparently be released "soon"
Regards
Robert T-A
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevork Krozian
To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
Cc: elearning Teachers' Mailing List
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Ipad in schools
Hi Folks,
Sorry for cross posting but very topical for our elearning colleagues
...
I have spoken to 3 schools who are doing just this, Ipads at year 7
and when I raise these concerns with Flash and Java not running I get a
blank stare.
Is there anyone out there who has considered the issues and found a
resolution/workaround or other approach apart from html5 will solve all
the problems which may or may not happen and may or may not take 3 to 5
years ....
Kind Regards
Kevork
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Don Mo
relli (Optus)
Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2010 6:45 PM
To: 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
Subjeschool as not only does the iPad not support Flash but it also
does not
support Java. So you can't run java apps like Geogebra in Maths, which
is worth its weight in gold. There are many programs that teachers use
to help students to understand concepts in particular learning areas
that are not about communication, collaboration and research (some of
the web 2.0 stuff). These will not run on the iPad. It will be
interesting to see how much of the "cloud computing software " will run
on it without problems. Try running Mathletics and I think that you
will have a problem with that as well. I am sure that in the next year
or so things will change, but the range of activities that you can carry
out on the iPad now, that have educational value is limited.
Good luck in trying to develop a curriculum-at least it is only year 7
Cheers Don
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Allison KENINS
Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2010 6:00 PM
To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] Ipad in schools
Hi All
Sorry for not being specific to Software Development.
My school is introducing iPads to our incoming year 7's and throwing
out the textbooks in all subjects. As my other method is maths and this
is a concern to a few of the other teachers, I was wondering if anyone
else's school is doing something similar and wanting to know what you
think. Major concern for us is that we use lots of websites that are
Flash based and therefore wont work (as far as I've been told) and we
now need to redevelop our year 7 curriculum before the start of next
year.
Any comments would be welcome.
Allison
Ringwood Secondary College
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 09:34:09 +1100
From: Kevork Krozian <K.Krozian at fhc.vic.edu.au>
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] FW: Thanks to some amazing people
To: "sofdev at edulists.com.au" <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID:
<FEF02B7E0B3C7F408906407AA12F8A8F3E8939DF25 at FHC-MX01.fhc.vic.edu.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear IT Software Development community,
I just want to recognise a few amazing people in our virtual community.
In singling out a few here, let me say every contributor is amazing for
the part each plays is each discussion. The lurkers .... well they are
best addressed in another message ....
First and foremost our online community would not be anything like it
is without Paula's presence.
It is a testament to her, that she sticks her neck out and is
accountable all year round, and come to think of it over the past dozen
or so years, purely in the pursuit of supporting teachers and doing the
best for the students.
To produce a study design, put out advice, interpret every permutation
and keep the community and everyone else together as she does is just
amazing. She is a ready target for any and every frustration , yet she
is still here, clarifying , helping, supporting. How lucky are we ???
She has to deal with criticisms ( some of which are not based on fact )
and she keeps the professional approach with the utmost courtesy.
No, I am not asking Paula for a pay rise or any favours but it is
important that this be stated and everyone understands what a difference
it makes to have her presence during our discussions.
The second person is Mark Kelly. Tireless and professional, funny and
serious, an expert but always willing to learn and it goes on. His
vceit.com site is a lifeline for so many teachers and we always thank
him again at this time of year for his coronial enquiries into the exams
that make for an amazing learning activity as well as an opportunity to
communicate, inform, discuss and even vent.
So Mark we are all in your debt. I think there may be several of these
thank you messages in the archives but it does not diminish what we all
think of you.
Love is all around .....
Kevork Krozian
Digital Learning Manager
Forest Hill College
www.fhc.vic.edu.au
tel: 0419 356 034
From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Christophersen,
Paula P
Sent: Thursday, 11 November 2010 11:02 AM
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] [Year 12 SofDev] Bulletin supplement
Thank you!
Paula
Paula Christophersen
ICT Curriculum Manager
VCAA
41 St Andrews Place
EAST MELBOURNE 3002
(03) 9651 4378
________________________________
From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark Scott
Sent: Thursday, 11 November 2010 9:18 AM
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] [Year 12 SofDev] Bulletin supplement
If they are all as good as Paula then there's your answer right there.
:)
Mark Scott
"The busier you get, the slower you walk" anon
From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark KELLY
Sent: Thursday, 11 November 2010 9:07 AM
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] [Year 12 SofDev] Bulletin supplement
One question: why are all the curriculum managers female?!
:-)
On 11 November 2010 08:39, Christophersen, Paula P
<christophersen.paula.p at edumail.vic.gov.au<mailto:christophersen.paula.p
@edumail.vic.gov.au>> wrote:
Dear colleagues
In this month's Bulletin there is a Frequently Asked Questions
supplement that contains a section relating to the VCE IT study design
2011 - 2014. Please read this information carefully. If you have any
further queries about the study design, please do not hesitate to
contact me.
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vcaa/correspondence/bulletins/2010/November/2
010NOVSUP2.pdf
Regards
Paula
Paula Christophersen
ICT Curriculum Manager
VCAA
41 St Andrews Place
EAST MELBOURNE 3002
(03) 9651 4378
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_______________________________________________
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http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology
Teachers Association Inc
--
Mark Kelly
Manager Information Systems
Reporting Manager
IT Learning Area Manager
McKinnon Secondary College
McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204
Victoria, Australia
Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085
Fax +613 9578 9253
kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au<mailto:kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
VCE IT Lecture Notes: http://vceit.com
Moderator: IT Applications Edulist
My cow died on this day two years ago. I know because I noted it in my
dairy.
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