[Year 12 SofDev] Ipads in Schools + Web Dev on Macs Sofdev Digest, Vol 68, Issue 9

Mon Nov 15 22:10:36 EST 2010

Hi all,

Interesting conversation about the Ipad. I wasn't even aware it didn't
support Java, which would make it problematic for us to use at Xavier
given our http proxy infrastructure depends on each student/teacher
running a Java applet to authenticate and manage their web access. Would
make it difficult for us to integrate them, let alone the fact that most
of the educational software we see is still created in Flash, and to a
lesser extent Java. My guess is that most of the educational publishers
are now madly scrambling to convert flash content into iOS enabled apps.
If you are "lucky" enough to have the opportunity to work with ipads I
imagine you will find a lot of educational content coming out next year
or the one after.

Apple have obviously made a conscious decision to move away from Java,
dropping WebObjects, not making XServes any more, no longer releasing
their own compiled version of Java for Macs, and with the trouble now
brewing around Oracle and their stewardship of the language, it looks
like being an "interesting" time for all things Java related.

As for Flash, I wouldn't rule it out till you see how widespread Android
becomes and how well their Flash support goes. Android is now the
second-most sold mobile OS behind Nokia's Symbian, and is also making
the biggest gains in market share at the moment. There are a lot of
Flash developers and fans out there, and I doubt all of them will want
stop using Flash and start learning Objective C, or anything else for
that matter. I am not sure if Objective C will even suit the needs of
many of the people currently using Flash, like for web based animation.

I am not sure that Ajax would generally use Java either Lindsay. These
days the term 'Ajax' is generally associated with Javascript on the
client side and only Google made much use of Java in their Google Web
Toolkit, which compiles to Javascript before it is run in a browser
anyway. I highly doubt Facebook uses much Java, but I am sure they use a
lot of Javascript ;)

If you are looking for generic IDE's then you could try Eclipse or
Netbeans. Both of these are Java software, one supported by IBM and the
other by Sun (Oracle now obviously), however both are open source
software. They are comparable to Visual Studio in that they offer a full
toolchain for software development. They are pretty heavy though. I used
Eclipse for a few years, then switched to Netbeans myself personally.
Now though I mainly just use a syntax aware text editor, vi or
occasionally emacs, as I much prefer speed and ease of use over lots of
features at the moment. Certainly Eclipse has a plugin for just about
any type of programming, and can be set up to do all kinds of stuff with
most modern programming languages. I suppose neither of these would work
on the Ipad. With my limited knowledge of the device it seems you have
no file-system access anyway, so would be hard to see how you could
actually use them to write much software in the first place. I guess you
could shell into a server and edit things over an X session, but then
you would be using the software on the server anyway. Perhaps someone
else has an idea of how you could use an Ipad to write software.

If you can stand taking some time, I highly recommend learning either vi
or emacs. Can be a little tough at first but once you spend a bit of
time you can become very productive. If you get good at them you will
rarely ever need an IDE again and will be able to program on almost any
platform currently in existence.

Guy Flaherty
Xavier College

>>> "Fowler, Lindsay"  15/11/10 5:02 PM >>>
Hi Kevork,
As I understand, java such as that used in Ajax is supported. Can you
log into facebook with your ipad through safari? I imagine yes as it
works on the iPhone.

I doubt Flash will ever be supported by iPad as it was never supported
on the iPhone, even though other companies like Nokia were including
basic Flash players. Whether or not you think thi
s is a bad thing, It
certainly suggests one thing: Flash is seven go so far as to predict it'll be close to extinct in three years as
a result of Apple's decision. Who today would commission a website that
was not compatible with the iPhone? Adobe even went so far as to offer
to write a converter that allows Flash users to publish to the iTunes
Appstore. A complete backflip - not sure if it will land correctly.
Also, apparently Skyfire has made some app to convert Flash videos to
HTML 5 and play on the iphone but it is yet to be approved. At best,
this only works with flash video - certainly not interactive video
games.

Flash is still wisely supported in the latest version of Safari,
however.

As far as I can tell, the iPad is not suited to any kind of real
development. When it comes to web development, there are plenty of HTML
editors but just try to find a Web Dev IDE! I also asked the guys at a
big new Apple store complete with Genius Bar but they didn't seem to
have ever considered back end web development much less know anything
about it. 

There is the Xcode IDE, which is great for developing applications in C,
but it doesn't run on the iPad. Macbooks can be used for developing PHP
sites by installing MAMP ( Mac apache server) and coding PHP in a text
editor. Not as much fun as Microsoft's Visual Web Dev in my humble
opinion.

Is there anyone out there who knows more about backend web dev with
Macs? Something other than PHP? I am very interested.
Thanks

Lindsay Fowler
LF at cgs.vic.edu.au
Information Technology and Mathematics
Camberwell Grammar School
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Ipad in schools (Kevork Krozian)
   2. Re: Ipad in schools (Don Morelli (Optus))
   3. Re: Ipad in schools (Timmer-Arends)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 10:22:29 +1100
From: Kevork Krozian 
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Ipad in schools
To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"

Cc: elearning Teachers' Mailing List 
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Folks,

Sorry for cross posting but very topical for our elearning colleagues
...
I have spoken to 3 schools who are doing just this, Ipads at year 7 and
when I raise these concerns with Flash and Java not running I get a
blank stare.
Is there anyone out there who has considered the issues and found a
resolution/workaround or other approach apart from html5 will solve all
the problems which may or may not happen and may or may not take 3 to 5
years ....

Kind Regards

Kevork

From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Don Morelli (Optus)
Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2010 6:45 PM
To: 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Ipad in schools

The decision has been made Allison which is unfortunate for your school
as not only does the iPad not support Flash but it also does not support
Java. So you can't run java apps like Geogebra in Maths, which is worth
its weight in gold. There are many programs that teachers use to help
students to understand concepts in particular learning areas that are
n
ot about communication, collaboration and research (some of how much of the "cloud computing software " will run on it without
problems.  Try running Mathletics and I think that you will have a
problem with that as well.  I am sure that in the next year or so things
will change, but the range of activities that you can carry out on the
iPad now, that have educational value is limited.
Good luck in trying to develop a curriculum-at least it is only year 7
Cheers Don

From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Allison KENINS
Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2010 6:00 PM
To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] Ipad in schools

Hi All

Sorry for not being specific to Software Development.
My school is introducing iPads to our incoming year 7's and throwing out
the textbooks in all subjects. As my other method is maths and this is a
concern to a few of the other teachers, I was wondering if anyone else's
school is doing something similar and wanting to know what you think.
Major concern for us is that we use lots of websites that are Flash
based and therefore wont work (as far as I've been told) and we now need
to redevelop our year 7 curriculum before the start of next year.

Any comments would be welcome.

Allison
Ringwood Secondary College
________________________________
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 10:54:12 +1100
From: "Don Morelli \(Optus\)" 
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Ipad in schools
To: "'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'"

Message-ID: <000601cb838e$135d7e00$3a187a00$@com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Kevork, I went to an iPad breakfast and was told that they do support
Java
in browsers. Have not tested the truth of this but I have one and home
and
am going to try to run Geogebra (java based maths) and will let you know
how
I go.

However, disturbingly, the Apple person said that Steve Jobs had said in
some speech he made that the iPad would not support Flash and that this
has
been a deliberate decision. So does not sound promising from Apple and
it
may be a job for a 3rd party developer.

Cheers Don

From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
On Behalf Of Kevork Krozian
Sent: Sunday, 14 November 2010 10:22 AM
To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
Cc: elearning Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Ipad in schools

Hi Folks,

Sorry for cross posting but very topical for our elearning colleagues
...

I have spoken to 3 schools who are doing just this, Ipads at year 7 and
when
I raise these concerns with Flash and Java not running I get a blank
stare. 

Is there anyone out there who has considered the issues and found a
resolution/workaround or other approach apart from html5 will solve all
the
problems which may or may not happen and may or may not take 3 to 5
years
....

Kind Regards

Kevork

From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
On Behalf Of Don Morelli (Optus)
Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2010 6:45 PM
To: 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Ipad in schools

The decision has been made Allison which is unfortunate for your school
as
not only does the iPad not support Flash but in gold. There are many programs that teachers use to help students to
understand concepts in particular learning areas that are not about
communication, collaboration and research (some of the web 2.0 stuff).
These
will not run on the iPad. It will be interesting to see how much of the
"cloud computing software " will run on it without problems.  Try
running
Mathletics and I think that you will have a problem with that as well. 
I am
sure that in the next year or so things will change, but the range of
activities that you can carry out on the iPad now, that have educational
value is limited.

Good luck in trying to develop a curriculum-at least it is only year 7

Cheers Don 

From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
On Behalf Of Allison KENINS
Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2010 6:00 PM
To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] Ipad in schools

Hi All

Sorry for not being specific to Software Development. 
My school is introducing iPads to our incoming year 7's and throwing out
the
textbooks in all subjects. As my other method is maths and this is a
concern
to a few of the other teachers, I was wondering if anyone else's school
is
doing something similar and wanting to know what you think. Major
concern
for us is that we use lots of websites that are Flash based and
therefore
wont work (as far as I've been told) and we now need to redevelop our
year 7
curriculum before the start of next year.

Any comments would be welcome.

Allison
Ringwood Secondary College 

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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 11:30:37 +1100
From: "Timmer-Arends" 
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Ipad in schools
To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"

Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Ipad in schoolsHello Kevork

the IT gurus at our place have had a careful look at the ipad, are
impressed, but are annoyed about the shortcomings and have decided to
wait for a machine who's name I can't remember (may samsung???) that is
going to run google's os - it's apparently every bit as good as the ipad
without the flash etc issues and will apparently be released "soon"

Regards
Robert T-A
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Kevork Krozian 
  To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List 
  Cc: elearning Teachers' Mailing List 
  Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 10:22 AM
  Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Ipad in schools

  Hi Folks,

  Sorry for cross posting but very topical for our elearning colleagues
...

  I have spoken to 3 schools who are doing just this, Ipads at year 7
and when I raise these concerns with Flash and Java not running I get a
blank stare. 

  Is there anyone out there who has considered the issues and found a
resolution/workaround or other approach apart from html5 will solve all
the problems which may or may not happen and may or may not take 3 to 5
years ....

  Kind Regards

  Kevork

  From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Don Mo
relli (Optus)
  Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2010 6:45 PM
  To: 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
  Subjeschool as not only does the iPad not support Flash but it also does not
support Java. So you can't run java apps like Geogebra in Maths, which
is worth its weight in gold. There are many programs that teachers use
to help students to understand concepts in particular learning areas
that are not about communication, collaboration and research (some of
the web 2.0 stuff). These will not run on the iPad. It will be
interesting to see how much of the "cloud computing software " will run
on it without problems.  Try running Mathletics and I think that you
will have a problem with that as well.  I am sure that in the next year
or so things will change, but the range of activities that you can carry
out on the iPad now, that have educational value is limited.

  Good luck in trying to develop a curriculum-at least it is only year 7

  Cheers Don 

  From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
[mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Allison KENINS
  Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2010 6:00 PM
  To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
  Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] Ipad in schools

  Hi All

  Sorry for not being specific to Software Development. 
  My school is introducing iPads to our incoming year 7's and throwing
out the textbooks in all subjects. As my other method is maths and this
is a concern to a few of the other teachers, I was wondering if anyone
else's school is doing something similar and wanting to know what you
think. Major concern for us is that we use lots of websites that are
Flash based and therefore wont work (as far as I've been told) and we
now need to redevelop our year 7 curriculum before the start of next
year.

  Any comments would be welcome.

  Allison
  Ringwood Secondary College 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before
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