[Year 12 SofDev] Yay, Back to Basics
Russell Quinn
QN at boxhillhs.vic.edu.au
Wed Jun 30 18:16:01 EST 2010
I agree with the sentiment. It is all too easy to let GUI and SQL take
over, but there were plenty of jobs I did when working professionally where
I just had to nut out how to solve an odd ball problem using problem solving
and good basic programming techniques. BTW, it also seems to be in line
with next years revision of SD where DB and sql solutions are out.
Anyone for a bubble sort? How about a linked list? I believe this is what we
should have been doing all along.
TA 4 the URL
Regards,
Russell Quinn
________________________________________
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au [sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of sofdev-request at edulists.com.au [sofdev-request at edulists.com.au]
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Today's Topics:
1. Back to BASIC(s) (Mark KELLY)
2. Re: Back to BASIC(s) (Laurie Savage)
3. Re: Back to BASIC(s) (Guy Flaherty)
4. Re: Back to BASIC(s) (Timmer-Arends)
5. Teacher Professional Development (Bianca van Meeuwen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 13:07:23 +1000
From: Mark KELLY <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] Back to BASIC(s)
To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
<sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID:
<AANLkTinVZd4EEvrCBCV-1OlGP4-2v20XPxAFlithEACD at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi All.
While I haven't had an SD class for a while (low enrolments and all), I will
be taking a year 10 IT elective in the coming semester which is sort of a SD
precursor.
Having been annoyed in the past by programming introductions that stressed
the GUI at the expense of 'real' programming (e.g. the spent most of their
time manipulating object properties and never discovered variables, arrays,
loops and logic) I have decided to go back to basics... literally.
To force the kids to focus on fundamentals I wanted to start with good ol'
QuickBASIC that has no GUI at all. Alas, it proved impossible to get it to
run under Win7. That's when I found QB64 at http://www.qb64.net.
This is a nice rendition of reverse engineering QB that will work happily in
a Win7 64 bit environment. It will be good to get the kiddies away from
frills and back to the meat-and-vegies of programming. Only then will I get
them into GUI and OOP.
Enjoy the hols
Mark
--
Mark Kelly
Manager - Information Systems
McKinnon Secondary College
McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085
School Phone +613 8520 9000
School Fax +613 9578 9253
kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
Korma: the philosophy that what you get out of a curry depends on what you
put into it.
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 13:35:33 +1000
From: Laurie Savage <sav at pvgc.vic.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Back to BASIC(s)
To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
<sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID: <20100630033533.GA15900 at pvgc.vic.edu.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Nice approach Mark; have you thought about Python? I've been playing around
with it with a good year 9 class and they seem to get it. My reasoning is
that simple Pyhton scripts read very much like structured English so as long as
the kid can grasp the logic the syntax more or less follows and OO and GUI
programming can follow in the same language.
Laurie Savage
Pascoe Vale Girls College
Just recently, on Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 01:07:23PM +1000 in fact, Mark KELLY mentioned:
> Hi All.
>
> While I haven't had an SD class for a while (low enrolments and all), I will
> be taking a year 10 IT elective in the coming semester which is sort of a SD
> precursor.
>
> Having been annoyed in the past by programming introductions that stressed
> the GUI at the expense of 'real' programming (e.g. the spent most of their
> time manipulating object properties and never discovered variables, arrays,
> loops and logic) I have decided to go back to basics... literally.
>
> To force the kids to focus on fundamentals I wanted to start with good ol'
> QuickBASIC that has no GUI at all. Alas, it proved impossible to get it to
> run under Win7. That's when I found QB64 at http://www.qb64.net.
>
> This is a nice rendition of reverse engineering QB that will work happily in
> a Win7 64 bit environment. It will be good to get the kiddies away from
> frills and back to the meat-and-vegies of programming. Only then will I get
> them into GUI and OOP.
>
> Enjoy the hols
>
> Mark
>
> --
> Mark Kelly
> Manager - Information Systems
> McKinnon Secondary College
> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
> Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085
> School Phone +613 8520 9000
> School Fax +613 9578 9253
> kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>
> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
> IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
>
> Korma: the philosophy that what you get out of a curry depends on what you
> put into it.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, Subscribe, Unsubscribe
> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html
> http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
--
Laurie Savage
====================================================================
Markbook/Moodle Coordinator::Pascoe Vale Girls College::03 9306 2544
====================================================================
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 14:04:22 +1000
From: "Guy Flaherty" <G.Flaherty at xavier.vic.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Back to BASIC(s)
To: <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID: <28707736.2052.1277870645520.JavaMail.root at localhost>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
I second Laurie's suggestion of going with Python. I use it in Year 12 and in a Year 10 IT Elective and it is very good for teaching programming basics. Last year I taught game programming with it to Year 10 students and they managed to get a fair bit out of it, with a good number electing to do Software Development this year.
Python actually lends itself to teaching programming because of the way you are 'forced' to write more readable code and by being a fairly consistent language. If you do manage to have any students who become adapt at programming in it, you can easily extend it in almost any direction as well, due to its high level of real world application use.
One of my pet peeves with Software Development is that we actually have to create a GUI application. I am not sure why this is specified, as I would prefer to concentrate on the actually programming and less on event-based actions that can be a lot like making a form in Access. I would like to actually concentrate on things like network applications and client/server
stuff instead of GUI layouts. I find the students actually start to appreciate that there is more to computers and programming once you stop doing everything in a GUI. It is just hard work to convince them that it will be interesting and fun if they give it a go!
Good luck with your course,
Guy Flaherty
Xavier College
>>> Laurie Savage 30/06/10 1:46 PM >>>
Nice approach Mark; have you thought about Python? I've been playing around
with it with a good year 9 class and they seem to get it. My reasoning is
that simple Pyhton scripts read very much like structured English so as long as
the kid can grasp the logic the syntax more or less follows and OO and GUI
programming can follow in the same language.
Laurie Savage
Pascoe Vale Girls College
Just recently, on Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 01:07:23PM +1000 in fact, Mark KELLY mentioned:
> Hi All.
>
> While I haven't had an SD class for a while (low enrolments and all), I will
> be taking a year 10 IT elective in the coming semester which is sort of a SD
> precursor.
>
> Having been annoyed in the past by programming introductions that stressed
> the GUI at the expense of 'real' programming (e.g. the spent most of their
> time manipulating object properties and never discovered variables, arrays,
> loops and logic) I have decided to go back to basics... literally.
>
> To force the kids to focus on fundamentals I wanted to start with good ol'
> QuickBASIC that has no GUI at all. Alas, it proved impossible to get it to
> run under Win7. That's when I found QB64 at http://www.qb64.net.
>
> This is a nice rendition of reverse engineering QB that will work happily in
> a Win7 64 bit environment. It will be good to get the kiddies away from
> frills and back to the meat-and-vegies of programming. Only then will I get
> them into GUI and OOP.
>
> Enjoy the hols
>
> Mark
>
> --
> Mark Kelly
> Manager - Information Systems
> McKinnon Secondary College
> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
> Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085
> School Phone +613 8520 9000
> School Fax +613 9578 9253
> kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>
> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
> IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
>
> Korma: the philosophy that what you get out of a curry depends on what you
> put into it.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, Subscribe, Unsubscribe
> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html
> http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
--
Laurie Savage
====================================================================
Markbook/Moodle Coordinator::Pascoe Vale Girls College::03 9306 2544
====================================================================
_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, Subscribe, Unsubscribe
IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html
http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
Scanned by Sonar.
Date: 2010-06-30 13:45:37.321
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
To: g.flaherty at xavier.vic.edu.au
Profile: Default_In
Mail id: challenge-7869517999qzj-0
"This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the Network Manager at Xavier College. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Xavier College. Whilst every attempt has been made to ensure material in this email message is free from computer viruses or other defects, the attached files are provided, and may only be used, on the basis that the user assumes all responsibility for the use of the material transmitted."
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:56:14 +1000
From: "Timmer-Arends" <timmer at melbpc.org.au>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Back to BASIC(s)
To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
<sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID: <DB32F244A2FD4897B8CE5D7FEB975AE3 at timmerarends>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I was going to second Laurie's suggestion but now I guess I'll have to third
Guy and Laurie's suggestions for all the same reasons. I presented it to my
Y10s but didn't make the decison to go this way until part way through the
semester, so opted for Portable Python because it meant that I could run it
from a network folder (techs didn't have to put it onto the image). A big
plus I found with this implementation of Python was the IDE - it meant
students could focus on programming and not have to worry about separate
editors, interpreters etc.
Can I just say in defence of the GUI approach in SD (but not the Access
part) that it brings two benefits: having students think about human
interface design; and more importantly, allowing students to break a task
down into obvious chunks - it encourages/scaffolds a kind of top-down
approach which I think is educationally useful.
Regards
Robert T-A
Brighton SC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Flaherty" <G.Flaherty at xavier.vic.edu.au>
To: <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Back to BASIC(s)
>I second Laurie's suggestion of going with Python. I use it in Year 12 and
>in a Year 10 IT Elective and it is very good for teaching programming
>basics. Last year I taught game programming with it to Year 10 students and
>they managed to get a fair bit out of it, with a good number electing to do
>Software Development this year.
>
> Python actually lends itself to teaching programming because of the way
> you are 'forced' to write more readable code and by being a fairly
> consistent language. If you do manage to have any students who become
> adapt at programming in it, you can easily extend it in almost any
> direction as well, due to its high level of real world application use.
>
> One of my pet peeves with Software Development is that we actually have to
> create a GUI application. I am not sure why this is specified, as I would
> prefer to concentrate on the actually programming and less on event-based
> actions that can be a lot like making a form in Access. I would like to
> actually concentrate on things like network applications and client/server
> stuff instead of GUI layouts. I find the students actually start to
> appreciate that there is more to computers and programming once you stop
> doing everything in a GUI. It is just hard work to convince them that it
> will be interesting and fun if they give it a go!
>
> Good luck with your course,
>
> Guy Flaherty
> Xavier College
>
>
>>>> Laurie Savage 30/06/10 1:46 PM >>>
> Nice approach Mark; have you thought about Python? I've been playing
> around
> with it with a good year 9 class and they seem to get it. My reasoning is
> that simple Pyhton scripts read very much like structured English so as
> long as
> the kid can grasp the logic the syntax more or less follows and OO and GUI
> programming can follow in the same language.
>
> Laurie Savage
> Pascoe Vale Girls College
>
> Just recently, on Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 01:07:23PM +1000 in fact, Mark
> KELLY mentioned:
>> Hi All.
>>
>> While I haven't had an SD class for a while (low enrolments and all), I
>> will
>> be taking a year 10 IT elective in the coming semester which is sort of a
>> SD
>> precursor.
>>
>> Having been annoyed in the past by programming introductions that
>> stressed
>> the GUI at the expense of 'real' programming (e.g. the spent most of
>> their
>> time manipulating object properties and never discovered variables,
>> arrays,
>> loops and logic) I have decided to go back to basics... literally.
>>
>> To force the kids to focus on fundamentals I wanted to start with good
>> ol'
>> QuickBASIC that has no GUI at all. Alas, it proved impossible to get it
>> to
>> run under Win7. That's when I found QB64 at http://www.qb64.net.
>>
>> This is a nice rendition of reverse engineering QB that will work happily
>> in
>> a Win7 64 bit environment. It will be good to get the kiddies away from
>> frills and back to the meat-and-vegies of programming. Only then will I
>> get
>> them into GUI and OOP.
>>
>> Enjoy the hols
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> --
>> Mark Kelly
>> Manager - Information Systems
>> McKinnon Secondary College
>> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
>> Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085
>> School Phone +613 8520 9000
>> School Fax +613 9578 9253
>> kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>
>> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>> IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
>> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
>>
>> Korma: the philosophy that what you get out of a curry depends on what
>> you
>> put into it.
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, Subscribe, Unsubscribe
>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
>> Authority and
>> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html
>> http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology
>> Teachers Association Inc
>
>
> --
> Laurie Savage
> ====================================================================
> Markbook/Moodle Coordinator::Pascoe Vale Girls College::03 9306 2544
> ====================================================================
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, Subscribe, Unsubscribe
> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> and
> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html
> http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers
> Association Inc
>
>
> Scanned by Sonar.
> Date: 2010-06-30 13:45:37.321
> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
> To: g.flaherty at xavier.vic.edu.au
> Profile: Default_In
> Mail id: challenge-7869517999qzj-0
>
>
>
>
> "This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
> addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the
> Network Manager at Xavier College. Please note that any views or opinions
> presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not
> necessarily represent those of Xavier College. Whilst every attempt has
> been made to ensure material in this email message is free from computer
> viruses or other defects, the attached files are provided, and may only be
> used, on the basis that the user assumes all responsibility for the use of
> the material transmitted."
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, Subscribe, Unsubscribe
> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> and
> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html
> http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers
> Association Inc
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:23:49 +1000
From: "Bianca van Meeuwen" <BVANMEEUWEN at groupwise.swin.edu.au>
Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] Teacher Professional Development
To: <itapps at edulists.com.au>, <sofdev at edulists.com.au>,
<yr11it at edulists.com.au>, <yr7-10it at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID: <4C2B7DA5020000CB0001734A at groupwise.swin.edu.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Teacher Professional Development
Swinburne University will be working with schools and teachers to identify the most-needed areas of PD. If there is a particular area of PD you are interested in, please contact us and we will endeavour to assist you as best as we can.
At this stage we are taking expressions of interest for PD in any area of interest.
We have had requests for sessions in Network Security and would like to know if you would be interested in attending a PD session on this topic, or if you have other areas of interest that you would like us to address.
If you are interested in a PD session at Swinburne University, please send us your full name, school, email address and preferable date.
You can do this by sending an email to bvanmeeuwen at swin.edu.au.
Thank you and we look forward to hearing from you.
Regards,
Bianca van Meeuwen
ICT Outreach Officer
Faculty of Information and Communication Technologies
Swinburne University of Technology
PO Box 218 John Street
Hawthorn 3122
bvanmeeuwen at swin.edu.au
p: 9214 8768
f: 9819 0823
m: 0416 931 105
www.swinburne.edu.au/ict
Attend our upcoming Secondary School events:
IT Applications Day ( http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools/swinburne/#ita ) - coming soon
Software Development Day ( http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools/swinburne/#sd ) - coming soon
Business Management Day ( http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools/swinburne/#business ) - coming soon
Physics Day ( http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools/swinburne/#physics ) - 27 and 28 July
High Achievers Day ( http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools/swinburne/#achievers ) - 23 November
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