[Year 12 SofDev] Re software development life cycle - From a management consultant web site

Royce Williams Royce.Williams at billanook.vic.edu.au
Thu Oct 16 11:02:35 EST 2008


ROFLMAO

Royce Williams
Sent from my AppleBerry

On 16/10/2008, at 10:59 AM, "Allan Barnes" <abarnes at aiet.com.au<mailto:abarnes at aiet.com.au>> wrote:

Software Development Cycle

 1.  Programmer produces code he believes is bug-free.
 2.  Product is tested. 20 bugs are found.
 3.  Programmer fixes 10 of the bugs and explains to the testing department that the other 10 aren't really bugs.
 4.  Testing department finds that five of the fixes didn't work and discovers 15 new bugs.
 5.  Repeat three times steps 3 and 4.
 6.  Due to marketing pressure and an extremely premature product announcement based on overly-optimistic programming schedule, the product is released.
 7.  Users find 137 new bugs.
 8.  Original programmer, having cashed his royalty check, is nowhere to be found.
 9.  Newly-assembled programming team fixes almost all of the 137 bugs, but introduce 456 new ones.
 10. Original programmer sends underpaid testing department a postcard from Fiji. Entire testing department quits.
 11. Company is bought in a hostile takeover by competitor using profits from their latest release, which had 783 bugs.
 12. New CEO is brought in by board of directors. He hires a programmer to redo program from scratch.
 13. Programmer produces code he believes is bug-free…


Kind regards

Allan Barnes, CEO
Australian Institute of Education and Training
P.O. Box 171
Brunswick West 3055
Ph: (03) 9387 2051
FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">Programmer produces code he believes is bug-free.
 14. Product is tested. 20 bugs are found.
 15. Programmer fixes 10 of the bugs and explains to the testing department that the other 10 aren't really bugs.
 16. Testing department finds that five of the fixes didn't work and discovers 15 new bugs.
 17. Repeat three times steps 3 and 4.
 18. Due to marketing pressure and an extremely premature product announcement based on overly-optimistic programming schedule, the product is released.
 19. Users find 137 new bugs.
 20. Original programmer, having cashed his royalty check, is nowhere to be found.
 21. Newly-assembled programming team fixes almost all of the 137 bugs, but introduce 456 new ones.
 22. Original programmer sends underpaid testing department a postcard from Fiji. Entire testing department quits.
 23. Company is bought in a hostile takeover by competitor using profits from their latest release, which had 783 bugs.
 24. New CEO is brought in by board of directors. He hires a programmer to redo program from scratch.
 25. Programmer produces code he believes is bug-free…


Kind regards

Allan Barnes, CEO
Australian Institute of Education and Training
P.O. Box 171
Brunswick West 3055
Ph: (03) 9387 2051
FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">Product is tested. 20 bugs are found.
 26. Programmer fixes 10 of the bugs and explains to the testing department that the other 10 aren't really bugs.
 27. Testing department finds that five of the fixes didn't work and discovers 15 new bugs.
 28. Repeat three times steps 3 and 4.
 29. Due to marketing pressure and an extremely premature product announcement based on overly-optimistic programming schedule, the product is released.
 30. Users find 137 new bugs.
 31. Original programmer, having cashed his royalty check, is nowhere to be found.
 32. Newly-assembled programming team fixes almost all of the 137 bugs, but introduce 456 new ones.
 33. Original programmer sends underpaid testing department a postcard from Fiji. Entire testing department quits.
 34. Company is bought in a hostile takeover by competitor using profits from their latest release, which had 783 bugs.
 35. New CEO is brought in by board of directors. He hires a programmer to redo program from scratch.
 36. Programmer produces code he believes is bug-free…


Kind regards

Allan Barnes, CEO
Australian Institute of Education and Training
P.O. Box 171
Brunswick West 3055
Ph: (03) 9387 2051
FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">Programmer fixes 10 of the bugs and explains to the testing department that the other 10 aren't really bugs.
 37. Testing department finds that five of the fixes didn't work and discovers 15 new bugs.
 38. Repeat three times steps 3 and 4.
 39. Due to marketing pressure and an extremely premature product announcement based on overly-optimistic programming schedule, the product is released.
 40. Users find 137 new bugs.
 41. Original programmer, having cashed his royalty check, is nowhere to be found.
 42. Newly-assembled programming team fixes almost all of the 137 bugs, but introduce 456 new ones.
 43. Original programmer sends underpaid testing department a postcard from Fiji. Entire testing department quits.
 44. Company is bought in a hostile takeover by competitor using profits from their latest release, which had 783 bugs.
 45. New CEO is brought in by board of directors. He hires a programmer to redo program from scratch.
 46. Programmer produces code he believes is bug-free…


Kind regards

Allan Barnes, CEO
Australian Institute of Education and Training
P.O. Box 171
Brunswick West 3055
Ph: (03) 9387 2051
FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">Testing department finds that five of the fixes didn't work and discovers 15 new bugs.
 47. Repeat three times steps 3 and 4.
 48. Due to marketing pressure and an extremely premature product announcement based on overly-optimistic programming schedule, the product is released.
 49. Users find 137 new bugs.
 50. Original programmer, having cashed his royalty check, is nowhere to be found.
 51. Newly-assembled programming team fixes almost all of the 137 bugs, but introduce 456 new ones.
 52. Original programmer sends underpaid testing department a postcard from Fiji. Entire testing department quits.
 53. Company is bought in a hostile takeover by competitor using profits from their latest release, which had 783 bugs.
 54. New CEO is brought in by board of directors. He hires a programmer to redo program from scratch.
 55. Programmer produces code he believes is bug-free…


Kind regards

Allan Barnes, CEO
Australian Institute of Education and Training
P.O. Box 171
Brunswick West 3055
Ph: (03) 9387 2051
FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">Repeat three times steps 3 and 4.
 56. Due to marketing pressure and an extremely premature product announcement based on overly-optimistic programming schedule, the product is released.
 57. Users find 137 new bugs.
 58. Original programmer, having cashed his royalty check, is nowhere to be found.
 59. Newly-assembled programming team fixes almost all of the 137 bugs, but introduce 456 new ones.
 60. Original programmer sends underpaid testing department a postcard from Fiji. Entire testing department quits.
 61. Company is bought in a hostile takeover by competitor using profits from their latest release, which had 783 bugs.
 62. New CEO is brought in by board of directors. He hires a programmer to redo program from scratch.
 63. Programmer produces code he believes is bug-free…


Kind regards

Allan Barnes, CEO
Australian Institute of Education and Training
P.O. Box 171
Brunswick West 3055
Ph: (03) 9387 2051
FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">Due to marketing pressure and an extremely premature product announcement based on overly-optimistic programming schedule, the product is released.
 64. Users find 137 new bugs.
 65. Original programmer, having cashed his royalty check, is nowhere to be found.
 66. Newly-assembled programming team fixes almost all of the 137 bugs, but introduce 456 new ones.
 67. Original programmer sends underpaid testing department a postcard from Fiji. Entire testing department quits.
 68. Company is bought in a hostile takeover by competitor using profits from their latest release, which had 783 bugs.
 69. New CEO is brought in by board of directors. He hires a programmer to redo program from scratch.
 70. Programmer produces code he believes is bug-free…


Kind regards

Allan Barnes, CEO
Australian Institute of Education and Training
P.O. Box 171
Brunswick West 3055
Ph: (03) 9387 2051
FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">Users find 137 new bugs.
 71. Original programmer, having cashed his royalty check, is nowhere to be found.
 72. Newly-assembled programming team fixes almost all of the 137 bugs, but introduce 456 new ones.
 73. Original programmer sends underpaid testing department a postcard from Fiji. Entire testing department quits.
 74. Company is bought in a hostile takeover by competitor using profits from their latest release, which had 783 bugs.
 75. New CEO is brought in by board of directors. He hires a programmer to redo program from scratch.
 76. Programmer produces code he believes is bug-free…


Kind regards

Allan Barnes, CEO
Australian Institute of Education and Training
P.O. Box 171
Brunswick West 3055
Ph: (03) 9387 2051
FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">Original programmer, having cashed his royalty check, is nowhere to be found.
 77. Newly-assembled programming team fixes almost all of the 137 bugs, but introduce 456 new ones.
 78. Original programmer sends underpaid testing department a postcard from Fiji. Entire testing department quits.
 79. Company is bought in a hostile takeover by competitor using profits from their latest release, which had 783 bugs.
 80. New CEO is brought in by board of directors. He hires a programmer to redo program from scratch.
 81. Programmer produces code he believes is bug-free…


Kind regards

Allan Barnes, CEO
Australian Institute of Education and Training
P.O. Box 171
Brunswick West 3055
Ph: (03) 9387 2051
FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">Newly-assembled programming team fixes almost all of the 137 bugs, but introduce 456 new ones.
 82. Original programmer sends underpaid testing department a postcard from Fiji. Entire testing department quits.
 83. Company is bought in a hostile takeover by competitor using profits from their latest release, which had 783 bugs.
 84. New CEO is brought in by board of directors. He hires a programmer to redo program from scratch.
 85. Programmer produces code he believes is bug-free…


Kind regards

Allan Barnes, CEO
Australian Institute of Education and Training
P.O. Box 171
Brunswick West 3055
Ph: (03) 9387 2051
FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">Original programmer sends underpaid testing department a postcard from Fiji. Entire testing department quits.
 86. Company is bought in a hostile takeover by competitor using profits from their latest release, which had 783 bugs.
 87. New CEO is brought in by board of directors. He hires a programmer to redo program from scratch.
 88. Programmer produces code he believes is bug-free…


Kind regards

Allan Barnes, CEO
Australian Institute of Education and Training
P.O. Box 171
Brunswick West 3055
Ph: (03) 9387 2051
FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">Company is bought in a hostile takeover by competitor using profits from their latest release, which had 783 bugs.
 89. New CEO is brought in by board of directors. He hires a programmer to redo program from scratch.
 90. Programmer produces code he believes is bug-free…


Kind regards

Allan Barnes, CEO
Australian Institute of Education and Training
P.O. Box 171
Brunswick West 3055
Ph: (03) 9387 2051
FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">New CEO is brought in by board of directors. He hires a programmer to redo program from scratch.
 91. Programmer produces code he believes is bug-free…


Kind regards

Allan Barnes, CEO
Australian Institute of Education and Training
P.O. Box 171
Brunswick West 3055
Ph: (03) 9387 2051
FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">Programmer produces code he believes is bug-free…


Kind regards

Allan Barnes, CEO
Australian Institute of Education and Training
P.O. Box 171
Brunswick West 3055
Ph: (03) 9387 2051
FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
color:#1F497D">

Kind regards

Allan Barnes, CEO
Australian Institute of Education and Training
P.O. Box 171
Brunswick West 3055
Ph: (03) 9387 2051
FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
color:#1F497D">
Kind regards

Allan Barnes, CEO
Australian Institute of Education and Training
P.O. Box 171
Brunswick West 3055
Ph: (03) 9387 2051
FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
color:#1F497D">Kind regards

Allan Barnes, CEO
Australian Institute of Education and Training
P.O. Box 171
Brunswick West 3055
Ph: (03) 9387 2051
FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
color:#1F497D">Allan Barnes, CEO
Australian Institute of Education and Training
P.O. Box 171
Brunswick West 3055
Ph: (03) 9387 2051
FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
color:#1F497D">Australian Institute of Education and Training
P.O. Box 171
Brunswick West 3055
Ph: (03) 9387 2051
FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
color:#1F497D">P.O. Box 171
Brunswick West 3055
Ph: (03) 9387 2051
FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
color:#1F497D">Brunswick West 3055
Ph: (03) 9387 2051
FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
color:#1F497D">Ph: (03) 9387 2051
FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
color:#1F497D">FAX: (03) 9387 3470
Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
color:#1F497D">Mobile: 0409 428 221



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">



_______________________________________________
<http://www.edulists.com.au>http://www.edulists.com.au IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
<http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html>http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
<http://www.vitta.org.au>http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc



More information about the sofdev mailing list