[Year 12 SofDev] SD SACs and Course Comments
Mark Kelly
kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
Thu Mar 6 18:02:58 EST 2008
Well said!
Robert Hind wrote:
> Have never taught SD, but way back did teach year 12 CS.
>
> Please let us realise that at year 12 all these concepts are only to be
> understood at a fairly low level.
>
> So don't panic if you are not a "fully on top of it all" teacher.
>
> You don't need the sort of "I know it all" mentality -
>
> * but then neither do any teachers
> * we are not expert sources of facts/knowledge
> * we are facilitators of learning. Sometimes our kids know more than
> we do :-( So what should we be doing in response? We should be
> saying "Great!". Hey know it and they can help us all :-)
> * we need to know that and the kids also need to know that.
>
>
> Back to computers:
>
> I did not even meet computers until 1971 in PNG. (Sorry but were you
> even born then?)
>
> Computers in schools? 1977+. With Tandy TSR 2 and Apples
>
> So most of our "old" IT teachers are self trained and have a wealth of
> knowledge and experience but no formal qualifications.
>
> Glad to hear that you, as a relatively new graduate who has worked in
> computing for some years, still have problems with the content of the
> course.
>
> Or am I only talking about myself as a lonely oldie?
>
> Robert Hind (Semi-retired)
> Ex Traralgon and Ashwood
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Russell Quinn <mailto:QN at boxhillhs.vic.edu.au>
> *To:* sofdev at edulists.com.au <mailto:sofdev at edulists.com.au>
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 06, 2008 4:07 PM
> *Subject:* [Year 12 SofDev] SD SACs and Course Comments
>
> Hi all,
> I have been monitoring the email regarding the SAC's and then
> the expansion to the course material.
>
> I have a grad dip in computing and was employed as
> an analyst/programmer for
> over 10 years at The University of Melbourne (plus contract work
> prior to that), and I have never had to contend with network issues.
> They are dealt with by specialists.
>
> The problem I have with developing my own SACs is the time required
> to do a good job.
> Who has the time between meetings, PD, curriculum, marking,
> developing new and hopefully
> interesting work etc. I wonder how many teaching SD are trained
> analysts, and even with training,
> analysis can be a very difficult task. I often have issues with
> solutions I have seen to DFD's.
> Imagine how threatening some of this work must be for the students -
> especially those who
> have not done Units 1 & 2.
>
> I note that one of the publishers is not offering a book this year
> due to falling numbers.
> I know that many of the students hate the theory and just want to
> log on and create.
> For me as an analyst/programmer and teacher, I find the course boring
> and much of the work tedious, and I am not sure I would put it into
> a secondary course.
> The name alone is misleading, and I think IS was a much more
> accurate description
> of the content. I believe the term SD is misleading.
>
> Lastly I find the VCAA course description ridiculous. Last year I
> spent a week teaching
> file structures, index files etc not knowing to what depth it will
> be needed for the exam.
> In the end I decided I had wasted the students time. How about a
> statement of what is in
> the course?
>
> Russell Quinn
>
> Mailto: qn at boxhillhs.vic.edu.au <mailto:qn at boxhillhs.vic.edu.au>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* sofdev-request at edulists.com.au
> *Sent:* Thu 6/03/2008 3:28 PM
> *To:* sofdev at edulists.com.au
> *Subject:* sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 22
>
> Send sofdev mailing list submissions to
> sofdev at edulists.com.au
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/sofdev
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> sofdev-request at edulists.com.au
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> sofdev-owner at edulists.com.au
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of sofdev digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Anyone here teach Chathura Jayasekara? (Mark Kelly)
> 2. Re: RE: sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 17 (Kevork Krozian)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 15:23:17 +1100
> From: Mark Kelly <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
> Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] Anyone here teach Chathura Jayasekara?
> To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
> <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
> Message-ID: <47CF71B5.8000904 at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Got an email asking for help with "last year's" SD SAC from Chathura
> Jayasekara. A SAC was attached.
>
> A bit sus, I thought, so I have not helped yet.
>
> Anyone here recognise the kiddy's name?
>
> Cheers
> Mark
>
>
> --
> Mark Kelly
> Manager - Information Systems
> McKinnon Secondary College
> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
> Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085
> School Phone +613 8520 9000
> School Fax +613 95789253
> kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>
> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
> IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
>
> You'll know when we are officially a civilised race: our schools have
> all the money they need and the Air Force has to run a chook raffle to
> buy a new bomber.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 15:26:47 +1100 (EST)
> From: "Kevork Krozian" <kevork at edulists.com.au>
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 17
> To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
> <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
> Message-ID:
> <48620.122.107.211.184.1204777607.squirrel at www.edulists.com.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hi Theresa,
>
> Thanks for your honesty in stating it is ok to admit not to know the
> technical stuff and this from someone with an info systems degree. Do all
> our SD teachers have a degree in the area ?
> And if you are not comfortable with the technical stuff - do I understand
> VPN, client server, WAN technologies, and more here? -- then how many
> more without quals feel even less comfortable ?
> I concur with your sentiments about the breaking down of the study design
> with little specificity being of little value. Yes, the VITTA CD has gone
> a long way to addressing the lack of specific sample work but there have
> been some quality assurance issues related to this.
> Futhermore, there is no point in everyone doing the same VITTA sample
> SAC from the CD. It is just repeating the problem using a different
> source.
>
> Keep well
>
>
> Kevork Krozian
> Mailing List Administrator
> kevork at edulists.com.au
> www.edulists.com.au
>
>
>
>
>
> > In regards to the present topic, I have a degree in Information systems
> > and am confident with teaching the theory of Systems analysis and
> > design, but feel nervous with some of the technical stuff because it has
> > changed so much in the past five years since I last taught IS so I
> > signed up to the recent VITTA workshops. I was dissapointed with the
> > workshops, which basically did no more than break down the Study design,
> > something I can do myself. I feel that some more specific PD for
> > networking, modelling and even programming - like building programs for
> > portable devices would really be more helpful.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Theresa Gate
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
> > [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of
> > sofdev-request at edulists.com.au
> > Sent: Thursday, 6 March 2008 11:42 AM
> > To: sofdev at edulists.com.au
> > Subject: sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 17
> >
> > Send sofdev mailing list submissions to
> > sofdev at edulists.com.au
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/sofdev
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > sofdev-request at edulists.com.au
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > sofdev-owner at edulists.com.au
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
> > "Re: Contents of sofdev digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: Why aren't teachers able to write their own material ?
> > (Kevork Krozian)
> > 2. Re: Copyright / authorship / solutions / ?? (Mark Kelly)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:32:07 +1100
> > From: "Kevork Krozian" <Kroset at novell1.fhc.vic.edu.au>
> > Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Why aren't teachers able to write their
> > own material ?
> > To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
> > <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
> > Message-ID: <47CFD635.EE3E.0095.0 at novell1.fhc.vic.edu.au>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15
> >
> > Hi Adrian and Mark,
> >
> > Very good points but more broadly a symptom of a wider problem we
> > keep avoiding.
> > If teachers are not confident about assessing a topic ( to say nothing
> > about teaching it effectively ) then we need to address this issue.
> > I know we are all overworked but if we are teaching a class we need to
> > be fair to the students and ourselves.
> >
> > In reality if you are not an active network manager or Cisco
> > instructor, you would struggle to understand networks and maybe not know
> > a bus network even if you were run over by one.
> >
> > I know VITTA and the VCAA almost do miracles ( not least in their
> > active and meaningful support of Edulists and PD ) but why are teachers
> > unable to write their own SACs with confidence and conviction and with
> > solutions they can show others ?
> >
> > I would say because the training and the need for new and current
> > training has not kept up with the demands of the course(s). What do we
> > do about this ?
> >
> > I think we need to stop patching these problems with band aids and need
> > to go up the tree (DEECD, the new Rudd govt. initiative or wherever else
> > we need to go) where there is decent and proper funding to deliver
> > updated courses and training rather than doing it on the cheap.
> >
> > I don't want to drag down decent hardworking teachers doing the best
> > they can with what little they have - I want to lift them .
> >
> >
> > Just my thoughts
> >
> >
> > Kevork
> >
> >
> >>>> Mark Kelly <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au> 6/03/2008 8:28 am >>>
> > Good points there, Adrian. I have a gut feeling that people feel rather
> >
> > more intimidated writing SD outcomes than they do ITA. It's that much
> >
> > more complex.
> >
> > In a similar vein, I've just finished writing a commercial practice SD
> >
> > exam and it took much more thinking than the equivalent ITA exam.
> >
> > Adrian Janson wrote:
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> This is a potentially tricky issue - and as one who often posts his
> > SAC
> >> and theory materials to the lists - one that I must confess is a bit
> > of
> >> a concern.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Speaking personally, when I post my materials to the lists - I would
> >
> >> like to think that those who are making use of them do so in the
> > spirit
> >> in which they have been posted - giving credit where it is due and
> > not
> >> altering things with a view to reposting them. I think the part of
> > this
> >> that is the most worrying is that some material did find its way back
> > to
> >> me which I had originally authored and posted to the lists - but with
> >
> >> another teachers name on it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> It may well just need to be the case that when we post materials to
> > the
> >> lists, we need to state (in the document as well as in the attached
> >> email), that the materials are free to use but may not be adapted or
> >
> >> changed in any way without the permission of the author*. As I put
> > the
> >> finishing touches on my 2008 SAC1 - I may well do this before I post
> > it
> >> to the list? I would be interested to know what others think of
> > this?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On another note - something which has been bothering me a great
> > deal.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> After the review process took place last year and schools had the
> > SACs
> >> and Assessments checked by VCAA - it became apparent that a large
> > number
> >> of the sampled schools had used my SACs (more than half). Of the
> >> remaining schools, many had used the VITTA SACs. After posting the
> > SACs
> >> to the lists, I had many requests for solutions which I tried to
> > provide
> >> as best I could. I don*t mind doing this - however, I think this
> > seems
> >> to suggest that there are few SD teachers creating their own original
> >
> >> materials and/or solutions.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Now - I don*t mind doing the work and posting it for everyone to
> > use. I
> >> think doing this is especially valuable to those starting out with
> > the
> >> SD course or with programming in general. However, if you are
> > familiar
> >> with the SD course - I think that you could be doing your own
> > students a
> >> disservice by not writing your own materials and solutions (and hence
> >
> >> becoming more familiar with the assessment criteria and the structure
> > of
> >> the course). In such a circumstance, I think it would be more
> >> appropriate for you to use my SAC materials (or any others that are
> >> posted) for practice SAC materials and / or inspiration for your own.
> >
> >> There is no way I can prevent teachers from simply using my own (or
> >> others) work as a method of minimising their own workload - however,
> > I
> >> would implore those engaging in this practice to think of the bigger
> >
> >> picture.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Adrian Janson
> >>
> >> VITTA President
> >>
> >> Director of ICT, Melbourne High School
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
> >> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Poultney,
> > Gordon A
> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, 5 March 2008 12:13 PM
> >> *To:* Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
> >> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> We are talking about a 2 page SAC here, not the latest from Neal
> >> Stephenson...
> >>
> >> Feel free to do what you want with Shagadelic - just don't put my
> > name
> >> on it if you change it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> If you believe in copyright/credit , then Ross' simple attribution
> >> scheme looks good.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> gordon
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------
> >>
> >> Gordon Poultney
> >>
> >> Horsham College
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Stephen Digby
> >> *Sent:* Wed 5/3/08 11:31
> >> *To:* 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
> >> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
> >>
> >> What about a simpler attribution such as
> >>
> >> Freds Carpet House v6 "Based on SAC by Mark Kelly 2007. Alterations
> > by
> >> Stephen Digby 2008, Gordon Poultney 2008"
> >>
> >> Just as the ridiculous copyright laws reduce the likelihood of
> > attribution
> >> (less likely to get caught for copyright violation if you remove all
> > info
> >> re. source).
> >>
> >> A overly complex attribution process may reduce the likelihood of
> > sharing.
> >>
> >> As it is, most resources that I have are not able to be shared
> > because of
> >> copyright (i.e. they are not mine to share)
> >>
> >> Lets develop a 'creative common' approach to as much materials as
> >> possible....
> >>
> >> ====================================================
> >> Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager
> >> mailto: digby.stephen.p at edumail.vic.gov.au
> >> Cheltenham Secondary College www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au
> >> Ph: 613 955 55 955 Fx: 9555 8617 Mb: 0431-701-028
> >> ====================================================
> >>
> >> I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat. Winston
> >> Churchill
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
> > [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> >> On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
> >> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 10:15 AM
> >> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List; Year 12 IT
> >> Applications Teachers' Mailing List; Year 11 Information Technology
> >> Teachers' Mailing List
> >> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
> >>
> >> (I've X-posted to the ITA and year 11 IT lists. Apols in advance.)
> >>
> >> I see an interesting and potentially worrying point developing here.
> >>
> >> If we adapt other people's tasks, I think we are obliged to retain
> > the
> >> version information contained in the task and note ourselves as
> > modifiers
> >> and let that info stay with the document in its further travels.
> >>
> >> I know I would be horrified if a task I created was later 'improved'
> > by some
> >> anonymous person, thereby damaging it or (even worse) rendering it a
> >> violation of VCAA rules - with my name still proudly stuck on it as
> > if I
> >> were solely responsible for its current condition!
> >>
> >> When we distribute 'adapted' tasks, I recommend that we:
> >>
> >> 1. Of course, retain the original author's identity and document
> > version
> >> number, if they are in the document. Give the poor authors credit
> > for their
> >> labours!
> >>
> >> 2. Add yourself to the credits as a 'modifier'.
> >>
> >> 3. Maybe even summarise your changes (and reasons?) in an addendum at
> > the
> >> end of the document. This addendum can be removed for printing
> > purposes by
> >> people who use it later, but it otherwise travels with the document
> > as it
> >> morphs through the ether.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> Mark
> >>
> >> Poultney, Gordon A wrote:
> >>> i made up the original 'Shagadelic' which sounds like it has
> > morphed
> >> into something else. There is only 1 network diagram in the original
> > - for
> >> the new system .there is/was a marking scheme and complete network
> > diagram
> >> for the teacher too.
> >>> cheers Gordon
> >>>
> >>> ----------------
> >>> Gordon Poultney
> >>> Horsham College
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>>
> >>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Maggie Iaquinto
> >>> Sent: Wed 5/3/08 9:14
> >>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
> >>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Ross
> >>>
> >>> Ross
> >>>
> >>> If you were using this practice SAC as the actual one, it would be
> >>> difficult to separate the marks for Task 1 (systems analysis and
> >>> design
> >>> - mistakenly called Task 2 here) from Task 2 (network diagram).
> > You
> >>> are required to report the marks for the tasks clearly and
> > discretely.
> >>>
> >>> Task 1 is 40 marks and Task 2 is 10 marks -- based on 50 for the
> >>> Outcome.
> >>> In the assessment sheet nearly 25 marks of the 50 are devoted to
> > the
> >>> network diagram. This makes it tough to report accurately to VCAA
> > just
> >>> what your students have received, in terms of the balance of
> > 40/10.
> >>>
> >>> Task 2 (network diagram) must be for the proposed new system and
> > this
> >>> document requires the student to diagram the current and the new.
> >>> Sure, you can do that but it isn't necessary.
> >>>
> >>> I notice also that there are marks given to presentation of the
> > report.
> >>> IMHO I would put those marks into a more finely-grained assessment
> > of
> >>> all the other Key Skills required in this Outcome.
> >>>
> >>> Just an opinion.
> >>>
> >>> Maggie
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
> >>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 8:36 AM
> >>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
> >>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
> >>>
> >>> If the task extended across the holidays, make sure the remaining
> > part
> >>> is not given to them beforehand so they can't pre-produce stuff.
> >>>
> >>> Claudia Graham wrote:
> >>> > Hi Ross,
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Re the practice SAC not sure who's that is so can't help there
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Regarding the use of the internet not something I have done or
> > would
> >>> do,
> >>> > for me it would be too hard to 'patrol'. But as long as all
> > students
> >>> > have the same conditions it doesn't matter (mind you I don't have
> > a
> >>> > study design or assessment hand book beside me to check re
> >>> > conditions)
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Same for the time frame, I assume you mean a lesson or two prior
> > to
> >>> the
> >>> > holidays and then some after (or similar), not something I would
> > do
> >>> just
> >>> > for authentication purposes. I would do it all in a few lessons;
> > I
> >>> don't
> >>> > even like weekends between assessment lessons if I can help it.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Claudia Graham
> >>> >
> >>> > Overnewton College
> >>> >
> >>> > Keilor
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> --
> >>> > *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
> >>> > [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Ogilvie,
> > Ross
> >>> > A
> >>> > *Sent:* 4 March 2008 7:50 PM
> >>> > *To:* sofdev at edulists.com.au
> >>> > *Subject:* Ross from Sunbury College
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Hi all,
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > In regard to SD I have a couple of questions.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > 1. I have given my class a **Practice SAC** called **Shagadelic
> >>> > Carpets** (refer to attachment) (hope the author is OK with
> > this).
> >>> > My
> >>>
> >>> > question is....does anyone have the solutions so I can check if I
> > am
> >>> on
> >>> > the right track.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > 2. When I give my students the actual SAC:
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > i. Can/should they access the internet.
> >>> >
> >>> > ii. Would there be a problem (in Vic) if the SAC extended
> > through
> >>> the
> >>> > Term One holiday period into Term Two.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Kindest Regards
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > **Ross Ogilvie **
> >>> >
> >>> > **LSF ICT Leader **
> >>> >
> >>> > **Sunbury**** College**
> >>> >
> >>> > **30 Racecourse Rd****, Sunbury 3429**
> >>> >
> >>> > **Ph (W) 9744 1066 **
> >>> >
> >>> > ** (H) 54272843**
> >>> >
> >>> > **Bookmarks: http://del.icio.us/Ross1956**
> >>> >
> >>> > **Wiki: http://ross1956.wikispaces.com/**
> >>> > --
> >>> > Mark Kelly
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Mark Kelly
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mark Kelly
> >
> > --
> > Mark Kelly
> > Manager - Information Systems
> > McKinnon Secondary College
> > McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia Direct line / Voicemail:
> > 8520 9085 School Phone +613 8520 9000 School Fax +613 95789253 kel AT
> > mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
> >
> > Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au IT Lecture notes:
> > http://vceit.com
> > Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
> >
> > You'll know when we are officially a civilised race: our schools have
> > all the money they need and the Air Force has to run a chook raffle to
> >
> > buy a new bomber.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > http://www.edulists.com.au
> > IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
> > http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
> > Authority and
> > http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
> > VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:36:38 +1100
> > From: Mark Kelly <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
> > Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Copyright / authorship / solutions / ??
> > To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
> > <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
> > Message-ID: <47CF3C96.1000409 at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Ah - I didn't notice you were chasing SD stuff... I assumed it was ITA.
> > I don't know if there are SD QATs. Your best bet is to check the
> > VITTA resources. There are SD SACs there.
> >
> > I will attach the U3 outcomes I used last year, which were approved by
> > VCAA during their audit of my material.
> >
> >
> > Fatima Nazar wrote:
> >> Hello Mark,
> >>
> >> I have looked into QATs and even sent them an email (no reply as yet)
> > about SD - I am brand new to SD and would LOVE to even buy some SACs
> > with suggested solutions as I would then know what can be an excellent
> > answer :) so let me know if you have some up your sleeve please
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Fatima
> >> (have 2 SD classes)
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >>
> >> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Mark Kelly
> >> Sent: Thu 3/6/2008 8:28 AM
> >> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
> >> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Copyright / authorship / solutions / ??
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Good points there, Adrian. I have a gut feeling that people feel
> > rather
> >> more intimidated writing SD outcomes than they do ITA. It's that much
> >> more complex.
> >>
> >> In a similar vein, I've just finished writing a commercial practice SD
> >> exam and it took much more thinking than the equivalent ITA exam.
> >>
> >> Adrian Janson wrote:
> >>> Hi everyone,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This is a potentially tricky issue - and as one who often posts his
> > SAC
> >>> and theory materials to the lists - one that I must confess is a bit
> > of
> >>> a concern.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Speaking personally, when I post my materials to the lists - I would
> >>> like to think that those who are making use of them do so in the
> > spirit
> >>> in which they have been posted - giving credit where it is due and
> > not
> >>> altering things with a view to reposting them. I think the part of
> > this
> >>> that is the most worrying is that some material did find its way back
> > to
> >>> me which I had originally authored and posted to the lists - but with
> >>> another teachers name on it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> It may well just need to be the case that when we post materials to
> > the
> >>> lists, we need to state (in the document as well as in the attached
> >>> email), that the materials are free to use but may not be adapted or
> >>> changed in any way without the permission of the author.... As I put
> > the
> >>> finishing touches on my 2008 SAC1 - I may well do this before I post
> > it
> >>> to the list? I would be interested to know what others think of
> > this?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On another note - something which has been bothering me a great deal.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> After the review process took place last year and schools had the
> > SACs
> >>> and Assessments checked by VCAA - it became apparent that a large
> > number
> >>> of the sampled schools had used my SACs (more than half). Of the
> >>> remaining schools, many had used the VITTA SACs. After posting the
> > SACs
> >>> to the lists, I had many requests for solutions which I tried to
> > provide
> >>> as best I could. I don't mind doing this - however, I think this
> > seems
> >>> to suggest that there are few SD teachers creating their own original
> >>> materials and/or solutions.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Now - I don't mind doing the work and posting it for everyone to use.
> > I
> >>> think doing this is especially valuable to those starting out with
> > the
> >>> SD course or with programming in general. However, if you are
> > familiar
> >>> with the SD course - I think that you could be doing your own
> > students a
> >>> disservice by not writing your own materials and solutions (and hence
> >>> becoming more familiar with the assessment criteria and the structure
> > of
> >>> the course). In such a circumstance, I think it would be more
> >>> appropriate for you to use my SAC materials (or any others that are
> >>> posted) for practice SAC materials and / or inspiration for your own.
> >
> >>> There is no way I can prevent teachers from simply using my own (or
> >>> others) work as a method of minimising their own workload - however,
> > I
> >>> would implore those engaging in this practice to think of the bigger
> >>> picture.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>>
> >>> Adrian Janson
> >>>
> >>> VITTA President
> >>>
> >>> Director of ICT, Melbourne High School
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
> >>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Poultney,
> > Gordon A
> >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 5 March 2008 12:13 PM
> >>> *To:* Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
> >>> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> We are talking about a 2 page SAC here, not the latest from Neal
> >>> Stephenson...
> >>>
> >>> Feel free to do what you want with Shagadelic - just don't put my
> > name
> >>> on it if you change it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> If you believe in copyright/credit , then Ross' simple attribution
> >>> scheme looks good.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> gordon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----------------
> >>>
> >>> Gordon Poultney
> >>>
> >>> Horsham College
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Stephen Digby
> >>> *Sent:* Wed 5/3/08 11:31
> >>> *To:* 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
> >>> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
> >>>
> >>> What about a simpler attribution such as
> >>>
> >>> Freds Carpet House v6 "Based on SAC by Mark Kelly 2007. Alterations
> > by
> >>> Stephen Digby 2008, Gordon Poultney 2008"
> >>>
> >>> Just as the ridiculous copyright laws reduce the likelihood of
> > attribution
> >>> (less likely to get caught for copyright violation if you remove all
> > info
> >>> re. source).
> >>>
> >>> A overly complex attribution process may reduce the likelihood of
> > sharing.
> >>>
> >>> As it is, most resources that I have are not able to be shared
> > because of
> >>> copyright (i.e. they are not mine to share)
> >>>
> >>> Lets develop a 'creative common' approach to as much materials as
> >>> possible....
> >>>
> >>> ====================================================
> >>> Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager
> >>> mailto: digby.stephen.p at edumail.vic.gov.au
> >>> Cheltenham Secondary College www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au
> >>> Ph: 613 955 55 955 Fx: 9555 8617 Mb: 0431-701-028
> >>> ====================================================
> >>>
> >>> I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat. Winston
> >>> Churchill
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
> > [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> >>> On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 10:15 AM
> >>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List; Year 12 IT
> >>> Applications Teachers' Mailing List; Year 11 Information Technology
> >>> Teachers' Mailing List
> >>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
> >>>
> >>> (I've X-posted to the ITA and year 11 IT lists. Apols in advance.)
> >>>
> >>> I see an interesting and potentially worrying point developing here.
> >>>
> >>> If we adapt other people's tasks, I think we are obliged to retain
> > the
> >>> version information contained in the task and note ourselves as
> > modifiers
> >>> and let that info stay with the document in its further travels.
> >>>
> >>> I know I would be horrified if a task I created was later 'improved'
> > by some
> >>> anonymous person, thereby damaging it or (even worse) rendering it a
> >>> violation of VCAA rules - with my name still proudly stuck on it as
> > if I
> >>> were solely responsible for its current condition!
> >>>
> >>> When we distribute 'adapted' tasks, I recommend that we:
> >>>
> >>> 1. Of course, retain the original author's identity and document
> > version
> >>> number, if they are in the document. Give the poor authors credit
> > for their
> >>> labours!
> >>>
> >>> 2. Add yourself to the credits as a 'modifier'.
> >>>
> >>> 3. Maybe even summarise your changes (and reasons?) in an addendum at
> > the
> >>> end of the document. This addendum can be removed for printing
> > purposes by
> >>> people who use it later, but it otherwise travels with the document
> > as it
> >>> morphs through the ether.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>>
> >>> Mark
> >>>
> >>> Poultney, Gordon A wrote:
> >>>> i made up the original 'Shagadelic' which sounds like it has
> > morphed
> >>> into something else. There is only 1 network diagram in the original
> > - for
> >>> the new system .there is/was a marking scheme and complete network
> > diagram
> >>> for the teacher too.
> >>>> cheers Gordon
> >>>>
> >>>> ----------------
> >>>> Gordon Poultney
> >>>> Horsham College
> >>>>
> >>>> ________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Maggie Iaquinto
> >>>> Sent: Wed 5/3/08 9:14
> >>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
> >>>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Ross
> >>>>
> >>>> Ross
> >>>>
> >>>> If you were using this practice SAC as the actual one, it would be
> >>>> difficult to separate the marks for Task 1 (systems analysis and
> >>>> design
> >>>> - mistakenly called Task 2 here) from Task 2 (network diagram). You
> >>>> are required to report the marks for the tasks clearly and
> > discretely.
> >>>>
> >>>> Task 1 is 40 marks and Task 2 is 10 marks -- based on 50 for the
> >>>> Outcome.
> >>>> In the assessment sheet nearly 25 marks of the 50 are devoted to
> > the
> >>>> network diagram. This makes it tough to report accurately to VCAA
> > just
> >>>> what your students have received, in terms of the balance of 40/10.
> >>>>
> >>>> Task 2 (network diagram) must be for the proposed new system and
> > this
> >>>> document requires the student to diagram the current and the new.
> >>>> Sure, you can do that but it isn't necessary.
> >>>>
> >>>> I notice also that there are marks given to presentation of the
> > report.
> >>>> IMHO I would put those marks into a more finely-grained assessment
> > of
> >>>> all the other Key Skills required in this Outcome.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just an opinion.
> >>>>
> >>>> Maggie
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
> >>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 8:36 AM
> >>>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
> >>>>
> >>>> If the task extended across the holidays, make sure the remaining
> > part
> >>>> is not given to them beforehand so they can't pre-produce stuff.
> >>>>
> >>>> Claudia Graham wrote:
> >>>>> Hi Ross,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Re the practice SAC not sure who's that is so can't help there
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regarding the use of the internet not something I have done or
> > would
> >>>> do,
> >>>>> for me it would be too hard to 'patrol'. But as long as all
> > students
> >>>>> have the same conditions it doesn't matter (mind you I don't have a
> >>>>> study design or assessment hand book beside me to check re
> >>>>> conditions)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Same for the time frame, I assume you mean a lesson or two prior to
> >>>> the
> >>>>> holidays and then some after (or similar), not something I would do
> >>>> just
> >>>>> for authentication purposes. I would do it all in a few lessons; I
> >>>> don't
> >>>>> even like weekends between assessment lessons if I can help it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Claudia Graham
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Overnewton College
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Keilor
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> --
> >>>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
> >>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Ogilvie,
> > Ross
> >>>>> A
> >>>>> *Sent:* 4 March 2008 7:50 PM
> >>>>> *To:* sofdev at edulists.com.au
> >>>>> *Subject:* Ross from Sunbury College
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In regard to SD I have a couple of questions.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1. I have given my class a **Practice SAC** called **Shagadelic
> >>>>> Carpets** (refer to attachment) (hope the author is OK with this).
> >>>>> My
> >>>>> question is....does anyone have the solutions so I can check if I
> > am
> >>>> on
> >>>>> the right track.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2. When I give my students the actual SAC:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> i. Can/should they access the internet.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ii. Would there be a problem (in Vic) if the SAC extended
> > through
> >>>> the
> >>>>> Term One holiday period into Term Two.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Kindest Regards
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> **Ross Ogilvie **
> >>>>>
> >>>>> **LSF ICT Leader **
> >>>>>
> >>>>> **Sunbury**** College**
> >>>>>
> >>>>> **30 Racecourse Rd****, Sunbury 3429**
> >>>>>
> >>>>> **Ph (W) 9744 1066 **
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ** (H) 54272843**
> >>>>>
> >>>>> **Bookmarks: http://del.icio.us/Ross1956**
> >>>>>
> >>>>> **Wiki: http://ross1956.wikispaces.com/**
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Mark Kelly
> >>>> --
> >>>> Mark Kelly
> >>> --
> >>> Mark Kelly
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mark Kelly
> >> Manager - Information Systems
> >> McKinnon Secondary College
> >> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
> >> Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085
> >> School Phone +613 8520 9000
> >> School Fax +613 95789253
> >> kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
> >>
> >> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
> > <http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au/>
> >> IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com <http://vceit.com/>
> >> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
> >>
> >> You'll know when we are officially a civilised race: our schools have
> >> all the money they need and the Air Force has to run a chook raffle to
> >> buy a new bomber.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au/>
> >> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
> >> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au <http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/> - Victorian
> > Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
> >> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
> > VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> http://www.edulists.com.au
> >> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
> >> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment
> > Authority and
> >> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
> > VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date:
> > 1/03/2008 5:41 PM
> >
> > --
> > Mark Kelly
> > Manager - Information Systems
> > McKinnon Secondary College
> > kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
> > McKinnon Rd, McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
> > Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085 Fax +613 9578 9253
> >
> > Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
> > IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
> > Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
> >
> > 1. Education is an admirable thing, but remember that nothing that is
> > worth knowing can be taught - Oscar Wilde
> > 2. I make trouble. You want some? - Mark Kelly
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> > Name: SD-U3O1_2007-Janson?s EZ-X10-Shuns-4U-v4small.zip
> > Type: application/octet-stream
> > Size: 93117 bytes
> > Desc: not available
> > Url :
> > http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/sofdev/attachments/20080306/39b234f
> > b/SD-U3O1_2007-JansonsEZ-X10-Shuns-4U-v4small.obj
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> > Name: SD U3O2 2007 task pic1.jpg
> > Type: image/jpeg
> > Size: 46037 bytes
> > Desc: not available
> > Url :
> > http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/sofdev/attachments/20080306/39b234f
> > b/SDU3O22007taskpic1.jpg
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> > Name: SD U3O2 2007 task pic2.jpg
> > Type: image/jpeg
> > Size: 29249 bytes
> > Desc: not available
> > Url :
> > http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/sofdev/attachments/20080306/39b234f
> > b/SDU3O22007taskpic2.jpg
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> > Name: SD U3O2 2007-vangogo-v5.doc
> > Type: application/msword
> > Size: 45568 bytes
> > Desc: not available
> > Url :
> > http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/sofdev/attachments/20080306/39b234f
> > b/SDU3O22007-vangogo-v5.doc
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sofdev mailing list
> > sofdev at edulists.com.au
> > http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/sofdev
> >
> >
> > End of sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 17
> > **************************************
> > ******************************************************************************
> > **** NOTICE FROM Gordon Institute of TAFE ****
> > This message is confidential, and may contain proprietary or legally
> > privileged information. If you have received this email in error, please
> > notify the sender and delete it immediately. Please take appropriate
> > precautions when communicating across the internet. The Gordon Institute
> > of TAFE under no circumstances accepts liability for any loss or damage
> > which may result from your receipt of this message or any attachments.
> > ******************************************************************************
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > http://www.edulists.com.au
> > IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
> > http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
> > and
> > http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html -
> > VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> sofdev mailing list
> sofdev at edulists.com.au
> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/sofdev
>
>
> End of sofdev Digest, Vol 37, Issue 22
> **************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au>IT Software
> Development Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html
> <http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html
> > - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
> http://www.vitta.org.au <http://www.vitta.org.au>- VITTA Victorian
> Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au> IT Software
> Development Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html
> <http://www.vitta.org.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel3-4.html > -
> Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
> http://www.vitta.org.au <http://www.vitta.org.au> - VITTA Victorian
> Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 1/03/2008 5:41 PM
--
Mark Kelly
Manager - Information Systems
McKinnon Secondary College
kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
McKinnon Rd, McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085 Fax +613 9578 9253
Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
1. Education is an admirable thing, but remember that nothing that is
worth knowing can be taught - Oscar Wilde
2. I make trouble. You want some? - Mark Kelly
More information about the sofdev
mailing list