[Year 12 SofDev] Why aren't teachers able to write their own material ?

Mark Kelly kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
Thu Mar 6 12:11:57 EST 2008


Perhaps VITTA could sponsor/produce a "Beginner's guide to writing and 
assessing ITA/SD outcomes" PD or publication.

I can do a talk on it at the VITTA convention, but that's a way off.

Kevork Krozian wrote:
> Hi Adrian and Mark,
> 
>    Very good points but more broadly a symptom of a wider problem we
> keep avoiding.
> If teachers are not confident about assessing a topic ( to say nothing
> about teaching it effectively ) then we need to address this issue.
> I know we are all overworked but if we are teaching a class we need to
> be fair to the students and ourselves. 
> 
>  In reality if you are not an active network manager or Cisco
> instructor, you would struggle to understand networks and maybe not know
> a bus network even if you were run over by one.
> 
>  I know VITTA and the VCAA almost do miracles ( not least in their
> active and meaningful support of Edulists and PD ) but why are teachers
> unable to write their own SACs with confidence and conviction and with
> solutions they can show others ?
> 
>  I would say because the training and the need for new and current
> training has not kept up with the demands of the course(s).  What do we
> do about this ?
> 
>  I think we need to stop patching these problems with band aids and
> need to go up the tree (DEECD, the new Rudd govt. initiative or wherever
> else we need to go) where there is decent and proper funding to deliver
> updated courses and training rather than doing it on the cheap.
> 
>  I don't want to drag down decent hardworking teachers doing the best
> they can with what little they have - I want to lift them .
> 
> 
> Just my thoughts 
> 
> 
> Kevork
>  
> 
>>>> Mark Kelly <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au> 6/03/2008 8:28 am >>>
> Good points there, Adrian. I have a gut feeling that people feel rather
> 
> more intimidated writing SD outcomes than they do ITA.  It's that much
> 
> more complex.
> 
> In a similar vein, I've just finished writing a commercial practice SD
> 
> exam and it took much more thinking than the equivalent ITA exam.
> 
> Adrian Janson wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>>  
>>
>> This is a potentially tricky issue - and as one who often posts his
> SAC 
>> and theory materials to the lists - one that I must confess is a bit
> of 
>> a concern.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Speaking personally, when I post my materials to the lists - I would
> 
>> like to think that those who are making use of them do so in the
> spirit 
>> in which they have been posted - giving credit where it is due and
> not 
>> altering things with a view to reposting them.  I think the part of
> this 
>> that is the most worrying is that some material did find its way back
> to 
>> me which I had originally authored and posted to the lists - but with
> 
>> another teachers name on it.
>>
>>  
>>
>> It may well just need to be the case that when we post materials to
> the 
>> lists, we need to state (in the document as well as in the attached 
>> email), that the materials are free to use but may not be adapted or
> 
>> changed in any way without the permission of the author*.  As I put
> the 
>> finishing touches on my 2008 SAC1 - I may well do this before I post
> it 
>> to the list?  I would be interested to know what others think of
> this?
>>  
>>
>> On another note - something which has been bothering me a great
> deal.
>>  
>>
>> After the review process took place last year and schools had the
> SACs 
>> and Assessments checked by VCAA - it became apparent that a large
> number 
>> of the sampled schools had used my SACs (more than half).  Of the 
>> remaining schools, many had used the VITTA SACs.  After posting the
> SACs 
>> to the lists, I had many requests for solutions which I tried to
> provide 
>> as best I could.  I don*t mind doing this - however, I think this
> seems 
>> to suggest that there are few SD teachers creating their own original
> 
>> materials and/or solutions.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Now - I don*t mind doing the work and posting it for everyone to
> use.  I 
>> think doing this is especially valuable to those starting out with
> the 
>> SD course or with programming in general.  However, if you are
> familiar 
>> with the SD course - I think that you could be doing your own
> students a 
>> disservice by not writing your own materials and solutions (and hence
> 
>> becoming more familiar with the assessment criteria and the structure
> of 
>> the course).  In such a circumstance, I think it would be more 
>> appropriate for you to use my SAC materials (or any others that are 
>> posted) for practice SAC materials and / or inspiration for your own.
>  
>> There is no way I can prevent teachers from simply using my own (or 
>> others) work as a method of minimising their own workload - however,
> I 
>> would implore those engaging in this practice to think of the bigger
> 
>> picture.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Adrian Janson
>>
>> VITTA President
>>
>> Director of ICT, Melbourne High School
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au 
>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Poultney,
> Gordon A
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 5 March 2008 12:13 PM
>> *To:* Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>
>>  
>>
>> We are talking about a 2 page SAC here, not the latest from Neal 
>> Stephenson...
>>
>> Feel free to do what you want with Shagadelic - just don't put my
> name 
>> on it if you change it.
>>
>>  
>>
>> If you believe in copyright/credit , then Ross' simple attribution 
>> scheme looks good.
>>
>>  
>>
>> gordon
>>
>>  
>>
>> ----------------
>>
>> Gordon Poultney
>>
>> Horsham College
>>
>>  
>>
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Stephen Digby
>> *Sent:* Wed 5/3/08 11:31
>> *To:* 'Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List'
>> *Subject:* RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>
>> What about a simpler attribution such as
>>
>> Freds Carpet House v6 "Based on SAC by Mark Kelly 2007. Alterations
> by
>> Stephen Digby 2008, Gordon Poultney 2008"
>>
>> Just as the ridiculous copyright laws reduce the likelihood of
> attribution
>> (less likely to get caught for copyright violation if you remove all
> info
>> re. source).
>>
>> A overly complex attribution process may reduce the likelihood of
> sharing.
>> As it is, most resources that I have are not able to be shared
> because of
>> copyright (i.e. they are not mine to share)
>>
>> Lets develop a 'creative common' approach to as much materials as
>> possible....
>>
>> ====================================================
>> Stephen Digby, Learning Technology Manager
>> mailto: digby.stephen.p at edumail.vic.gov.au 
>> Cheltenham Secondary College www.cheltsec.vic.edu.au 
>> Ph: 613 955 55 955  Fx: 9555 8617 Mb: 0431-701-028
>> ====================================================
>>
>> I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat.   Winston
>> Churchill
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au
> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] 
>> On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 10:15 AM
>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List; Year 12 IT
>> Applications Teachers' Mailing List; Year 11 Information Technology
>> Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>
>> (I've X-posted to the ITA and year 11 IT lists.  Apols in advance.)
>>
>> I see an interesting and potentially worrying point developing here.
>>
>> If we adapt other people's tasks, I think we are obliged to retain
> the
>> version information contained in the task and note ourselves as
> modifiers
>> and let that info stay with the document in its further travels.
>>
>> I know I would be horrified if a task I created was later 'improved'
> by some
>> anonymous person, thereby damaging it or (even worse) rendering it a
>> violation of VCAA rules - with my name still proudly stuck on it as
> if I
>> were solely responsible for its current condition!
>>
>> When we distribute 'adapted' tasks, I recommend that we:
>>
>> 1. Of course, retain the original author's identity and document
> version
>> number, if they are in the document.  Give the poor authors credit
> for their
>> labours!
>>
>> 2. Add yourself to the credits as a 'modifier'.
>>
>> 3. Maybe even summarise your changes (and reasons?) in an addendum at
> the
>> end of the document.  This addendum can be removed for printing
> purposes by
>> people who use it later, but it otherwise travels with the document
> as it
>> morphs through the ether.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> Poultney, Gordon A wrote:
>>>  i made up  the original 'Shagadelic'  which sounds like it has
> morphed
>> into something else. There is only 1 network diagram in the original
> - for
>> the new system .there is/was a marking scheme and complete network
> diagram
>> for the teacher too.
>>>  cheers   Gordon
>>>
>>>  ----------------
>>>  Gordon Poultney
>>>  Horsham College
>>>
>>>  ________________________________
>>>
>>>  From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Maggie Iaquinto
>>>  Sent: Wed 5/3/08 9:14
>>>  To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>  Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Ross
>>>
>>>  Ross
>>>
>>>  If you were using this practice SAC as the actual one, it would be
>>>  difficult to separate the marks for Task 1 (systems analysis and
>>>  design
>>>  - mistakenly called Task 2 here) from Task 2 (network diagram).
> You
>>>  are required to report the marks for the tasks clearly and
> discretely.
>>>  Task 1 is 40 marks and Task 2 is 10 marks -- based on 50 for the
>>>  Outcome.
>>>  In the assessment sheet nearly 25 marks of the 50 are devoted to
> the
>>>  network diagram. This makes it tough to report accurately to VCAA
> just
>>>  what your students have received, in terms of the balance of
> 40/10.
>>>  Task 2 (network diagram) must be for the proposed new system and
> this
>>>  document requires the student to diagram the current and the new.
>>>  Sure, you can do that but it isn't necessary.
>>>
>>>  I notice also that there are marks given to presentation of the
> report.
>>>  IMHO I would put those marks into a more finely-grained assessment
> of
>>>  all the other Key Skills required in this Outcome.
>>>
>>>  Just an opinion.
>>>
>>>  Maggie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>  From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au 
>>>  [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
>>>  Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2008 8:36 AM
>>>  To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>>>  Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] RE: Ross from Sunbury College
>>>
>>>  If the task extended across the holidays, make sure the remaining
> part
>>>  is not given to them beforehand so they can't pre-produce stuff.
>>>
>>>  Claudia Graham wrote:
>>>> Hi Ross,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Re the practice SAC not sure who's that is so can't help there
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regarding the use of the internet not something I have done or
> would
>>>  do,
>>>> for me it would be too hard to 'patrol'. But as long as all
> students
>>>> have the same conditions it doesn't matter (mind you I don't have
> a
>>>> study design or assessment hand book beside me to check re
>>>> conditions)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Same for the time frame, I assume you mean a lesson or two prior
> to
>>>  the
>>>> holidays and then some after (or similar), not something I would
> do
>>>  just
>>>> for authentication purposes. I would do it all in a few lessons;
> I
>>>  don't
>>>> even like weekends between assessment lessons if I can help it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Claudia Graham
>>>>
>>>> Overnewton College
>>>>
>>>> Keilor
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  --
>>>> *From:* sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au 
>>>> [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] *On Behalf Of *Ogilvie,
> Ross
>>>> A
>>>> *Sent:* 4 March 2008 7:50 PM
>>>> *To:* sofdev at edulists.com.au 
>>>> *Subject:* Ross from Sunbury College
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In regard to SD I have a couple of questions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. I have given my class a **Practice SAC** called **Shagadelic
>>>> Carpets**  (refer to attachment) (hope the author is OK with
> this).
>>>> My
>>>> question is....does anyone have the solutions so I can check if I
> am
>>>  on
>>>> the right track.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2. When I give my students the actual SAC:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    i. Can/should they access the internet.
>>>>
>>>>    ii. Would there be a problem (in Vic) if the SAC extended
> through
>>>  the
>>>> Term One holiday period into    Term Two.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kindest Regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **Ross Ogilvie **
>>>>
>>>> **LSF ICT Leader **
>>>>
>>>> **Sunbury**** College**
>>>>
>>>> **30 Racecourse Rd****, Sunbury 3429**
>>>>
>>>> **Ph (W) 9744 1066    **
>>>>
>>>> **   (H) 54272843**
>>>>
>>>> **Bookmarks:  http://del.icio.us/Ross1956** 
>>>>
>>>> **Wiki: http://ross1956.wikispaces.com/** 
>>>> --
>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>  --
>>>  Mark Kelly
>> --
>> Mark Kelly
> 


-- 
Mark Kelly
Manager - Information Systems
McKinnon Secondary College
McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085
School Phone +613 8520 9000
School Fax +613 95789253
kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au

Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com
Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List

You'll know when we are officially a civilised race: our schools have 
all the money they need and the Air Force has to run a chook raffle to 
buy a new bomber.



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