[Year 12 SofDev] Industry practice - tertiary links

Thu Apr 17 08:11:46 EST 2008

Hi Andrew,

>Couldn't people here put forward their opinion on SD?

I think you have misunderstood me.  The answer is (and always has been YES).
My suggestion was that we simply change the name of the thread so that those
that don't wish to be involved could then isolate the thread for (shock,
horror!) deletion.

>Including so much theory doesn't get any student excited about learning IT
at Uni. After all we are trying to promote IT beyond yr12 are >we not? Are
we not trying to get more people to do it?
>Do we have the people in charge of the subject with this in mind?

I do understand where you are coming from - however there are a number of
considerations.  Firstly, the subject needs to have some rigueur.  We are
teaching software development and there are sound theoretic concepts that
are key.  In addition to this we are trying to develop our students into the
beginnings of well rounded IT professional types - who have a holistic view
of the system, the effect that software and software development has on the
system as a whole.  Then there is the exam - which is also an important
consideration.  

Andrew - are you from the tertiary sector?  Although I am interested in
getting students to become excited about 'learning IT at Uni' - this is not
actually my primary motivation.  

Cheers,

Adrian

Adrian Janson, 

VITTA President

Director of ICT, 

Melbourne High School, 

Forrest Hill, South Yarra 3141 Australia.

Phone: 03 9826 0711 International: +61 3 9826 0711

Fax: 03 9826 8767 International: +61 3 9826 8767

E-mail:  <mailto:janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au>
janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au

Website:  <http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au> http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au

Blog:  <http://jansona.edublogs.org/> http://jansona.edublogs.org

From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
On Behalf Of andrew barry
Sent: Wednesday, 16 April 2008 7:28 PM
To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Industry practice - tertiary links

Hi,
Couldn't people here put forward their opinion on SD?
I prefer to just teach an IT subject which is just programming and some
programming design eg psuedo code. 

Including so much theory doesn't get any student excited about learning IT
at Uni. After all we are trying to promote IT beyond yr12 are we not? Are we
not trying to get more people to do it?
Do we have the people in charge of the subject with this in mind?

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 12:36 PM, Adrian Janson
<janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au> wrote:

Hi Steven,

I think that links between the tertiary and secondary sectors need to become
stronger for us to both move forward - and it would be great to have an
extended dialogue with you about this when the time is right (which may be
soon).  So if you are keen to help us onto the right track in terms of
industry standard practice - then it would be great to chat!

For now however, I think it is important not to confuse those working with
and coming to terms with the current study design.  I have renamed this
thread so that those who wish to ignore - simply can.  The current study
design is what is important for the 'right now'.

Cheers,
Adrian

Adrian Janson,
VITTA President
Director of ICT,
Melbourne High School,
Forrest Hill, South Yarra 3141 Australia.
Phone: 03 9826 0711 International: +61 3 9826 0711
Fax: 03 9826 8767 International: +61 3 9826 8767
E-mail: janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au
Website: http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au
Blog: http://jansona.edublogs.org

-----Original Message-----
From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au]
On Behalf Of Steven Bird
Sent: Wednesday, 16 April 2008 11:04 AM
To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Resource flows in a DFD

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:40 AM, Mark Kelly <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
wrote:
>  That's what concerns me.  We are marking things right or wrong according
to
> a set of sometimes-arbitrary rules and definitions that sometimes only
apply
> in our little world of VCE theory.  An outsider in The Real World could
well
> argue that our answers are either moot or just plain wrong according to
best
> practice.
>
>  Our definition of the SDLC, for example, is just one of many, yet we ask
> very specific questions about it that can rule all other SDLC variants
> incorrect.

For effective assessment, I think we need to focus on knowledge and
skills that are relevant and well-codified.  As a body of knowledge, I
don't think the SDLC scores very highly on either measure.  There are
many other practical and interesting topics that could be covered.

A possible starting point is to consider the relationship between the
VCE and university curricula.  From where I stand, it seems very odd
that VCE would include aspects of our third year subjects as they were
taught 10-20 years ago.  Could we find ways to migrate our first-year
curriculum into VCE/VELS?

By the way, here is what Melbourne University does in first year IT,
as of 2008:  http://informatics.unimelb.edu.au/
I guess I might have some of your 2007 students.  :)

Steven Bird
http://www.csse.unimelb.edu.au/~sb/ <http://www.csse.unimelb.edu.au/%7Esb/> 
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IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
and
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Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc

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