[Year 12 SofDev] RE:U3O2 Language

Kevork Krozian Kroset at novell1.fhc.vic.edu.au
Tue Feb 13 16:10:07 EST 2007 

Hi Mark,

 You are on the right track with offending members of the community ..... they should all pass on the humour criterion alone !!!

 You may be surprised just how easy the PHP MySQL solution can be - one line of SQL, several lines of PHP ( even easier than html ), and  several lines of wml ( as easy as html ). 

 Seriously though, I think this will really get the kids going as they will see a new use for their mobile phones beyond messaging or listening to music.

 Writing a game to play on a mobile phone would also be quite legitimate, I would argue, on the grounds that  you can justify it as entertainment/education and while you are at it , why not answer 10 random questions on road laws for upcoming learner drivers to practice the exam ?

 Hang in there Mark. Are you going with Python or still unsure ?
 VITTA will run some PD in at least 2 languages I believe to assist with this and also some Yr 11 tasks of a programming/scripting nature.

The bottom line is, there is help out there. If a teacher said I am pulling my hair out as I don't know what to do and even worse how to do it, they can find someone who will help. This is a far cry from the mid 90s when we had imperative and non-imperative programming languages and with no help available, many people pulled their hair out including yours truly. Thankfully, only a little fell off and the bulk stayed on my head. 

Best Wishes
Kevork

>>> kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au 02/13/07 03:27pm >>>
Hi Kevork

Wow.  Your task is way beyond _my_ skills, let alone my kids'.  Since 
neither the study design nor the assessment advice specify that the U3O2 
coded module has to be web/network-enabled, I'll aim a fraction lower.

I feel a modest task can still demonstrate ability in design, testing 
etc from which many of the marks derive.  I'll aim for a module that 
would be useful to a person on the move.

I might, however, have trouble finding a legal or ethical issue relating 
to the use of a simple calculator...  Maybe if the end-user types in 
58008, turns around the display so it says "BOOBS" and outrages a member 
of the community... ?  :-)

Kevork Krozian wrote:

> Hi Mark,
> 
>   If we take the sample SAC in the Study Design a painting service quotation service is given as the example. One can find it on p 81 of the Study Design.
>   I take it that the use should be of some practical benefit ( running a business, giving quotes etc ). 
> Extrapolating this, I will be setting the task based on a personal trainer who will visit prospective clients' homes and using a portable device ( say mobile phone ) enter the client's details into a web page ( wml for a WAP device browser vs html for a standard browser ) including height, weight, address , phone etc. Submit the form which will go back to a web server connected via the phone service provider's WAP service,  and on submitting the form, the client's data will be saved to a database ( MySQL server ) running behind the web server and the return page will tell the client their Body Mass Index ( BMI ) , how unhealthy they are , how many sessions of training they need per week and for how long they need to sign up to get trim, fit and beautiful . There are also variations on this theme.
>  My programming language will be PHP.
> 
>  Best Wishes
> Kevork
> 
>>>> kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au 02/13/07 01:12pm >>>
> So, tossing around coding tasks that are "in the spirit" of a portable 
> device...
> 
> - a simple 4 function calculator?
> - an alarm clock?
> - a notes manager?
> - a dual-timezone clock?
> - a contacts list?
> 
> Is that the sort of stuff anyone had in mind? Eminently portable, and 
> not too difficult for kids to implement with the constraints of small 
> screens and tricky input devices.
> 
> BTW - can we simulate input devices, e.g. use software buttons to 
> simulate hardware buttons that would reasonably be on a portable 
> hardware device?
> 
> Ross Taylor wrote:
>>  
>> Mark
>>
>> I am using Python as my programming language - I find that the kids get to
>> grips with it fairly quickly, and like the Tkinter GUI by seeing immediate
>> results.  It has "fairly" simple syntax although it can be a touch grumpy
>> with spaces, colons etc.  The IDE is fairly use friendly and of course the
>> kids can install and use it at home.  I have posted some turorials on the
>> EduLists site - I'd like to see the resources you are using to teach -
>> always looking to make Python more interesting!  Going by the VITTA CD - I'm
>> understanding that the module should be something that is  useful on a
>> mobile computing device (eg - payroll, stocktaking) - I completely agree
>> with you about programming  a student's motorola, though!
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Ross Taylor
>>  
>> Learning Technologies Coordinator
>> Parkdale Secondary College
>> Warren Road
>> Mordialloc 
>> Vic 3195
>>  
>> Work - 03 9580 6311
>> Fax - 03 9587 3142
>> Mob - 0422 171337
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au] 
>> On Behalf Of sofdev-request at edulists.com.au 
>> Sent: Tuesday, 13 February 2007 12:00 PM
>> To: sofdev at edulists.com.au 
>> Subject: sofdev Digest, Vol 24, Issue 7
>>
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>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: Time Allowance for ICT coord. (Fiona Mackenzie)
>>    2. Re: Time Allowance for ICT coord. (Mark Kelly)
>>    3. Pondering SD U3O2 (Mark Kelly)
>>    4. Implementation (Mark Kelly)
>>    5. RE: Pondering SD U3O2 (David Dawson)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 08:28:33 +1100
>> From: "Fiona Mackenzie" <fionamc at leonsec.vic.edu.au>
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Time Allowance for ICT coord.
>> To: <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
>> Message-ID: <45D176B10200005A00000A4D at HERMES.leonsec.vic.edu.au>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>
>> Hi Yildran,
>> We are a similar sized school and we have 2 positions - ICT Curriculum and
>> IT Infrastructure.  Each role has a 3 session allocation a week. 
>> Curriculum is in charge of the new VELS report writing software, staff
>> training in use of ICT, maintaining our online WebCT learning.
>> Infrastructure takes care of the student/staff accounts, laptop program,
>> keeping an eye on maintenance of equipment, maintaining the school website
>> etc.  It is a great way of killing your IT people more slowly.
>>
>> regards,
>> Fionamc
>>
>>>>> "Yildiran Hilmi" <hilmi.yildiran.h at edumail.vic.gov.au> 02/12/07
>> 11:49 AM >>>
>> Hi everyone,
>> I would like to know how much allowance (non-teaching periods) other ICT
>> coordinators get in other schools. In some schools the job is too big for
>> one person, so it has been split up between two or three people. If that's
>> the case, what are the general responsibilities and time allowances? We have
>> 700 students and single campus.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received
>> in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using
>> attachments check them for viruses and defects.
>> Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the
>> negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the
>> use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any
>> affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of
>> the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of
>> Education.
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.edulists.com.au 
>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
>> and http://www.vitta.org.au  - VITTA Victorian Information Technology
>> Teachers Association Inc
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 08:36:32 +1100
>> From: Mark Kelly <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 SofDev] Time Allowance for ICT coord.
>> To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
>> 	<sofdev at edulists.com.au>
>> Message-ID: <45D0DDE0.4070908 at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> You poor thing!
>>
>> Lynda de Silva wrote:
>>> Hi Yildiran,
>>>
>>> I am the only Commerce coordinator (which include ICT, Business 
>>> Management, Accounting, Legal Studies, Vocational Education, etc) in 
>>> school and I only have 2 periods allowance per week in a single campus 
>>> population of abt 1300 students.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Lynda de Silva
>>>
>>> --- Yildiran Hilmi
>>> <hilmi.yildiran.h at edumail.vic.gov.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>> I would like to know how much allowance (non-teaching periods) other 
>>>> ICT coordinators get in other schools. In some schools the job is too 
>>>> big for one person, so it has been split up between two or three 
>>>> people. If that's the case, what are the general responsibilities and 
>>>> time allowances? We have 700 students and single campus.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>> --
>> Mark Kelly
>> Manager - Information Systems
>> McKinnon Secondary College
>> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia Direct line / Voicemail: 8520
>> 9085 School Phone +613 8520 9000 School Fax +613 95789253
>>
>> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au IT Lecture notes:
>> http://vceit.com 
>> Moderator: IPM Mailing List
>>
>> There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and
>> those who don't.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:46:07 +1100
>> From: Mark Kelly <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
>> Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] Pondering SD U3O2
>> To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
>> 	<sofdev at edulists.com.au>
>> Message-ID: <45D0FC3F.3010505 at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Hi all.  Have spent a quiet time with the study design...
>>
>> Can someone suggest why U3O2 would specify a software module for a
>> *portable* computing device.  It seems oddly esoteric and specialised for a
>> student's very first programming task.
>>
>> I wouldn't be game to program for my Palm OS, or for a Nokia phone.
>>
>> One would have thought a module for a traditional computing system would be
>> more logical.  (Yes, I do realise a laptop is both portable and traditional
>> so kids can easily write a module for a "normal" PC :-)
>>
>> Just wonderin' what VCAA's motives might have been.
>>
>> And while I'm here, I'm curious what languages people have chosen. My
>> fallback is VB, but I am toying with Python as an alternative - and trying
>> to get used to its odd punctuation and lack of endings to loops and IF
>> constructs.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Kelly
>> Manager - Information Systems
>> McKinnon Secondary College
>> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia Direct line / Voicemail: 8520
>> 9085 School Phone +613 8520 9000 School Fax +613 95789253
>>
>> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au IT Lecture notes:
>> http://vceit.com 
>> Moderator: IPM Mailing List
>>
>> There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and
>> those who don't.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:54:26 +1100
>> From: Mark Kelly <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
>> Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] Implementation
>> To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
>> 	<sofdev at edulists.com.au>
>> Message-ID: <45D0FE32.9060205 at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Howdy.
>>
>> The study design refers to the SDLC's implementation phase as "including
>> user documentation, designing and conducting training programs, preparation
>> of disaster recovery plans and the changeover to new systems"
>>
>> I always have put documentation writing in the development phase (if using
>> the 5-phase SDLC model which lacks the 7-phase model's documentation phase).
>>
>> And designing training surely should happen much earlier - in the design
>> phase, as its name implies - along with preparing a DDRP.
>>
>> While I'm on the subject, I find it a tad confusing that the VCAA has
>> dictated a 5-stage SDLC and a separate 7-stage "software development" 
>> cycle which is identical to the 7-stage SDLC.
>>
>> One would have thought that the 7-stage SDLC (ADDTDIE) would have adequately
>> catered for both needs.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Kelly
>> Manager - Information Systems
>> McKinnon Secondary College
>> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia Direct line / Voicemail: 8520
>> 9085 School Phone +613 8520 9000 School Fax +613 95789253
>>
>> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au IT Lecture notes:
>> http://vceit.com 
>> Moderator: IPM Mailing List
>>
>> There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and
>> those who don't.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:55:33 +1100
>> From: "David Dawson" <dgdawson at mgs.vic.edu.au>
>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 SofDev] Pondering SD U3O2
>> To: "Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List"
>> 	<sofdev at edulists.com.au>
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<33647A6379B82C4492104E9399759D4637F102 at mgs-sy-ex01.mgs.local>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> My interpretation is that any small web-based application that can be
>> displayed in a mobile phone or PDA accessing the internet would be
>> acceptable.
>> If anyone thinks this is not ok - then please let us know asap.
>> We will be using PHP mostly.
>> David Dawson
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sofdev-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Mark Kelly
>> Sent: Tue 13/02/2007 10:46 AM
>> To: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: [Year 12 SofDev] Pondering SD U3O2
>>  
>> Hi all.  Have spent a quiet time with the study design...
>>
>> Can someone suggest why U3O2 would specify a software module for a
>> *portable* computing device.  It seems oddly esoteric and specialised for a
>> student's very first programming task.
>>
>> I wouldn't be game to program for my Palm OS, or for a Nokia phone.
>>
>> One would have thought a module for a traditional computing system would be
>> more logical.  (Yes, I do realise a laptop is both portable and traditional
>> so kids can easily write a module for a "normal" PC :-)
>>
>> Just wonderin' what VCAA's motives might have been.
>>
>> And while I'm here, I'm curious what languages people have chosen. My
>> fallback is VB, but I am toying with Python as an alternative - and trying
>> to get used to its odd punctuation and lack of endings to loops and IF
>> constructs.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Kelly
>> Manager - Information Systems
>> McKinnon Secondary College
>> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia Direct line / Voicemail: 8520
>> 9085 School Phone +613 8520 9000 School Fax +613 95789253
>>
>> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au IT Lecture notes:
>> http://vceit.com 
>> Moderator: IPM Mailing List
>>
>> There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and
>> those who don't.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.edulists.com.au 
>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority
>> and http://www.vitta.org.au  - VITTA Victorian Information Technology
>> Teachers Association Inc
>>
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>> End of sofdev Digest, Vol 24, Issue 7
>> *************************************
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>>
>>
>> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education.
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.edulists.com.au 
>> IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
>> http://www.vitta.org.au  - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>>
>>
> 

-- 
Mark Kelly
Manager - Information Systems
McKinnon Secondary College
McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
Direct line / Voicemail: 8520 9085
School Phone +613 8520 9000
School Fax +613 95789253

Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au 
IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com 
Moderator: IPM Mailing List

There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary
and those who don't.

_______________________________________________
http://www.edulists.com.au 
IT Software Development Mailing List kindly supported by
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
http://www.vitta.org.au  - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers Association Inc

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