[Reporting] Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Fwd: VELS and semester reporting - please advise

Tue Jun 12 14:17:26 EST 2007

Hello Kevork

I know the dilemma you face. And that's why I'm voicing some strong
opinions about it: we now seem to have a situation where it's not just a
case of assessment driving the curriculum but one where reporting drives
it - so much for VELS providing a framework within which we construct
curriculum to meet local needs!

I suspect that VCAA has little to do with this aspect of the whole show.
Rather it is the Office of Learning and Teaching (OLT) ???. Here is the
link to the document I have been refering to:

http://www.education.vic.gov.au/studentlearning/studentreports/schools/achieve1semester.htm

There are more delightful gems on this site, such as how maths should deal
with dimensions they don't cover in a semester, or how to deal with
subjects that only assess part of a domain.

Regards
Robert T-A
Brighton SC

> Hi Robert,
>
>     I hear you and agree with you. What are the consequences of
> incorrect VELS reporting though ?
> Will a school be censured or worse,  if the dots are wrong ?
>    I think we need the VCAA to join this discussion. I am CC-ing Paula
> .....
>
>
> Take Care
> Kevork
>
>
>>>> tim at brightonsc.vic.edu.au 12/06/2007 9:09 am >>>
> So you would destroy what is probably a very good curriculum for the
> sake
> of getting a few dots on a piece of paper in the right place, and a
> code
> letter to match.
>
> regards
> Robert T-A
> Brighton SC
>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>>  Thanks to all who responded. I am not sure that there is a
> resolution
>> here.
>> I have had the full spectrum of possible solutions or opinions and I
> am
>> grateful to all.
>> I will report back to the list if more comes to light but I do fear
> some
>> of
>> us may be out on a limb with the particular approach taken.
>> Eg. Is it unacceptable/irregular/unlawful to teach a unit in Sem 1
> and
>> then
>> repeat it in Sem 2 by virtue of the fact the progression points
> expect a
>> graduated improvement in semester portions and to teach the same
> standard
>> means one of the semester is not at the right level ? or
>> shifting/fudging/elevating the progression point interpretation for
> the
>> same
>> performance in Sem 2 to "calibrate" the performance vs letter grade
> graph
>> ?
>>  One approach we have discussed at Forest Hill College is that since
> ICT
>> is
>> a doman in its own right it deserves reporting in each year in each
>> semester. We have a full year of ICT at Yrs 7 and 8 but only a
> single
>> compulsory semester in Yr 9 - whenever the student can be slotted in
>> during
>> the year -  and an optional programming elective in Yr 10, again
> either in
>> Sem 1 or 2 based on availability of teacher and students. One
> approach
>> being
>> discussed is to convert the Yr 9 course into a full year course thus
>> removing the problem of solely a single semester report and possibly
> also
>> extending the Yr 10 course into a full year. This would happen by
> halving
>> the number of periods per week and doubling the number of weeks.
> Same
>> content, but no reporting problems .......
>>
>> Speak soon
>> Kevork Krozian
>> Edulists Creator and Administrator
>> www.edulists.com.au
>> kevork at edulists.com.au
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Timmer-Arends" <timmer at melbpc.org.au>
>> To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"
>> <itapps at edulists.com.au>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 6:17 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Fwd: VELS and semester reporting -
> please
>> advise
>>
>>
>>> Hello all
>>>
>>> Kevork I did answer this on the reports list. OLT have published a
> word
>>> doc explaining what to do - basically explain the discrepancy to
>>> parents!
>>>
>>> I actually don't agree with Mark's point (if I am interpreting it
>>> correctly) - I think OLT (and possibly VCAA) have got it wrong. I
> think
>>> it's a nonsense to say that a student in Year 10 semester 2 is
> somehow
>>> more likely to be a better performer than they might be in semester
> 1,
>>> if
>>> in both cases they have no prior experience (or just year 9/8/7
>>> experience) of the subject. I would suggest that (ignoring VELS for
> the
>>> moment) when most of us structure a Year 10 semester long unit we do
> so
>>> with the thought that it be of a 'year 10 standard'; interpreting
> this
>>> in
>>> VELS, this means we create a learning environment that allows
> students
>>> to
>>> gain at least level 6 no matter what the semester - to do anything
> else
>>> is
>>> unfair on the students because they all have to be ready for Year
> 11, no
>>> matter what semester they do it in. Let's not kid ourselves - it is
> the
>>> reporting system that is creating this anomoly, not our courses.
>>> Measuring
>>> where a given student's work ends up on a 1 to 6 scale is one thing
> (and
>>> conceptually I don't have a problem with this), but to then trying
> to
>>> align this scale with a particular semester and interpreting that
>>> semester
>>> as some kind of expected level is what is causing the problem. At
> the
>>> very
>>> least, progress in semester long courses should be measured against
>>> expected progress for that year.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Robert T-A
>>> Brighton SC
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Reid, Cam C" <reid.cam.c at edumail.vic.gov.au>
>>> To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"
>>> <itapps at edulists.com.au>
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 11:38 AM
>>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] Fwd: VELS and semester reporting -
> please
>>> advise
>>>
>>>
>>> I agree with Mark.
>>>
>>> Our school has discussed this and have come to the same conclusion.
> We
>>> need to assess at the standard that is applicable to that year level
> in
>>> Sem 2. Should there be any questions about it we will be pointing to
> the
>>> relevant VELS level for that semester. We will also state that it
> is
>>> expected that the student is maturing in his/her abilities and
> skills
>>> all
>>> the time, and that the student should be at the expected level of
>>> achievement.
>>>
>>> We have also noted that in a few areas, the progression points
> include
>>> an
>>> item not covered in previous progression points. We are making
> minor
>>> adjustments to relevant courses to ensure that all progression
> points
>>> can
>>> be achieved. This course outline can still be used for both semester
> 1
>>> and
>>> 2.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Cameron Reid
>>> Shepparton High School
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Mark Kelly
>>> Sent: Thu 7/06/2007 11:01 AM
>>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Fwd: VELS and semester reporting -
> please
>>> advise
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1.  Blame VELS
>>>
>>> 2.  Rest assured that there are very few twins so the problem will
> be
>>> uncommon .
>>>
>>> 3.  Blame VELS again
>>>
>>> 4.  But seriously, folks.  Knowing that an elective could be done in
> sem
>>> 1 or sem 2 should lead teachers to base their progression point on
> the
>>> VELS standard for that yearlevel and that semester to keep the
> domain
>>> grade sensible.
>>>
>>> Year 9 Kid X doing the elective in sem 1 would be judged against
> the
>>> standard for sem 1 (e.g. 5.25) and twin Kid Y in sem 2 would be
> judged
>>> against the standard for sem 2 (5.5).
>>>
>>> That way, their VELS score is balanced against their chronological
> age.
>>>
>>> At least, that's what I'd do as a teacher entering VELS scores.  In
> fact
>>> I only have VCE this year so it's not an issue except for the fact
> that
>>> I'm the bunny writing the database to do our reporting, including
> VELS.
>>>  It all works well, but the XML data inport/export is a pain.  I'm
>>> cheating by using Filemaker to generate the domain scores and
> Visual
>>> Basic to turn the data into XML to export to CASES21 :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Kevork Krozian wrote:
>>>> Hi Folks,
>>>>
>>>>  I hate to do this, but I haven't heard from the reporting list so
> I am
>>>> cross posting this for your advice please.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Kevork Krozian 6/06/2007 10:29 am >>>
>>>> Hi Folks,
>>>>
>>>>    Consider this dilemma ,
>>>>
>>>> Students do a compulsory elective of ICT in 1 semester of Year 9 (
> or
>>>> Yr 10 for that matter ). All students will do this elective, either
> in
>>>> Sem 1 or Sem 2. It is the same work for both semesters. Student X
> does
>>>> Sem 1, student Y does Sem 2.  They are twins.
>>>>
>>>>  Both attain a progression point of 5.5 . However, student X gets
> a
>>>> grade of B and student Y gets a grade of C for the same work. So ,
> how
>>>> do we explain this to parents ?  They are both achieving the same ,
> yet
>>>> score different grades by the randomness of elective selection and
>>>> different stages ( or ages ) of assessment .
>>>>
>>>>  How do we reconcile this ?
>>>>
>>>> Look forward to your replies
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kevork Krozian
>>>> IT Manager , Forest Hill College
>>>> k.krozian at fhc.vic.edu.au
>>>> http://www.fhc.vic.edu.au <http://www.fhc.vic.edu.au/>
>>>> Mobile: 0419 356 034
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>>>> Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mark Kelly
>>> Manager - Information Systems
>>> McKinnon Secondary College
>>> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
>>> Direct line: 8520 9085
>>> School Phone +613 8520 9000
>>> School Fax   +613 9578 9253
>>> kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>>
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>
> --
> Regards
> Mr.Timmer-Arends
> Brighton SC
>
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-- 
Regards
Mr.Timmer-Arends
Brighton SC