[Reporting] Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Fwd: VELS and semester reporting - please advise

Tue Jun 12 09:09:16 EST 2007

So you would destroy what is probably a very good curriculum for the sake
of getting a few dots on a piece of paper in the right place, and a code
letter to match.

regards
Robert T-A
Brighton SC

> Hi Folks,
>
>  Thanks to all who responded. I am not sure that there is a resolution
> here.
> I have had the full spectrum of possible solutions or opinions and I am
> grateful to all.
> I will report back to the list if more comes to light but I do fear some
> of
> us may be out on a limb with the particular approach taken.
> Eg. Is it unacceptable/irregular/unlawful to teach a unit in Sem 1 and
> then
> repeat it in Sem 2 by virtue of the fact the progression points expect a
> graduated improvement in semester portions and to teach the same standard
> means one of the semester is not at the right level ? or
> shifting/fudging/elevating the progression point interpretation for the
> same
> performance in Sem 2 to "calibrate" the performance vs letter grade graph
> ?
>  One approach we have discussed at Forest Hill College is that since ICT
> is
> a doman in its own right it deserves reporting in each year in each
> semester. We have a full year of ICT at Yrs 7 and 8 but only a single
> compulsory semester in Yr 9 - whenever the student can be slotted in
> during
> the year -  and an optional programming elective in Yr 10, again either in
> Sem 1 or 2 based on availability of teacher and students. One approach
> being
> discussed is to convert the Yr 9 course into a full year course thus
> removing the problem of solely a single semester report and possibly also
> extending the Yr 10 course into a full year. This would happen by halving
> the number of periods per week and doubling the number of weeks. Same
> content, but no reporting problems .......
>
> Speak soon
> Kevork Krozian
> Edulists Creator and Administrator
> www.edulists.com.au
> kevork at edulists.com.au
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Timmer-Arends" <timmer at melbpc.org.au>
> To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"
> <itapps at edulists.com.au>
> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 6:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Fwd: VELS and semester reporting - please
> advise
>
>
>> Hello all
>>
>> Kevork I did answer this on the reports list. OLT have published a word
>> doc explaining what to do - basically explain the discrepancy to
>> parents!
>>
>> I actually don't agree with Mark's point (if I am interpreting it
>> correctly) - I think OLT (and possibly VCAA) have got it wrong. I think
>> it's a nonsense to say that a student in Year 10 semester 2 is somehow
>> more likely to be a better performer than they might be in semester 1,
>> if
>> in both cases they have no prior experience (or just year 9/8/7
>> experience) of the subject. I would suggest that (ignoring VELS for the
>> moment) when most of us structure a Year 10 semester long unit we do so
>> with the thought that it be of a 'year 10 standard'; interpreting this
>> in
>> VELS, this means we create a learning environment that allows students
>> to
>> gain at least level 6 no matter what the semester - to do anything else
>> is
>> unfair on the students because they all have to be ready for Year 11, no
>> matter what semester they do it in. Let's not kid ourselves - it is the
>> reporting system that is creating this anomoly, not our courses.
>> Measuring
>> where a given student's work ends up on a 1 to 6 scale is one thing (and
>> conceptually I don't have a problem with this), but to then trying to
>> align this scale with a particular semester and interpreting that
>> semester
>> as some kind of expected level is what is causing the problem. At the
>> very
>> least, progress in semester long courses should be measured against
>> expected progress for that year.
>>
>> Regards
>> Robert T-A
>> Brighton SC
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Reid, Cam C" <reid.cam.c at edumail.vic.gov.au>
>> To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"
>> <itapps at edulists.com.au>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 11:38 AM
>> Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] Fwd: VELS and semester reporting - please
>> advise
>>
>>
>> I agree with Mark.
>>
>> Our school has discussed this and have come to the same conclusion. We
>> need to assess at the standard that is applicable to that year level in
>> Sem 2. Should there be any questions about it we will be pointing to the
>> relevant VELS level for that semester. We will also state that it is
>> expected that the student is maturing in his/her abilities and skills
>> all
>> the time, and that the student should be at the expected level of
>> achievement.
>>
>> We have also noted that in a few areas, the progression points include
>> an
>> item not covered in previous progression points. We are making minor
>> adjustments to relevant courses to ensure that all progression points
>> can
>> be achieved. This course outline can still be used for both semester 1
>> and
>> 2.
>>
>> Regards
>> Cameron Reid
>> Shepparton High School
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Mark Kelly
>> Sent: Thu 7/06/2007 11:01 AM
>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Fwd: VELS and semester reporting - please
>> advise
>>
>>
>>
>> 1.  Blame VELS
>>
>> 2.  Rest assured that there are very few twins so the problem will be
>> uncommon .
>>
>> 3.  Blame VELS again
>>
>> 4.  But seriously, folks.  Knowing that an elective could be done in sem
>> 1 or sem 2 should lead teachers to base their progression point on the
>> VELS standard for that yearlevel and that semester to keep the domain
>> grade sensible.
>>
>> Year 9 Kid X doing the elective in sem 1 would be judged against the
>> standard for sem 1 (e.g. 5.25) and twin Kid Y in sem 2 would be judged
>> against the standard for sem 2 (5.5).
>>
>> That way, their VELS score is balanced against their chronological age.
>>
>> At least, that's what I'd do as a teacher entering VELS scores.  In fact
>> I only have VCE this year so it's not an issue except for the fact that
>> I'm the bunny writing the database to do our reporting, including VELS.
>>  It all works well, but the XML data inport/export is a pain.  I'm
>> cheating by using Filemaker to generate the domain scores and Visual
>> Basic to turn the data into XML to export to CASES21 :-)
>>
>>
>> Kevork Krozian wrote:
>>> Hi Folks,
>>>
>>>  I hate to do this, but I haven't heard from the reporting list so I am
>>> cross posting this for your advice please.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Kevork Krozian 6/06/2007 10:29 am >>>
>>> Hi Folks,
>>>
>>>    Consider this dilemma ,
>>>
>>> Students do a compulsory elective of ICT in 1 semester of Year 9 ( or
>>> Yr 10 for that matter ). All students will do this elective, either in
>>> Sem 1 or Sem 2. It is the same work for both semesters. Student X does
>>> Sem 1, student Y does Sem 2.  They are twins.
>>>
>>>  Both attain a progression point of 5.5 . However, student X gets a
>>> grade of B and student Y gets a grade of C for the same work. So , how
>>> do we explain this to parents ?  They are both achieving the same , yet
>>> score different grades by the randomness of elective selection and
>>> different stages ( or ages ) of assessment .
>>>
>>>  How do we reconcile this ?
>>>
>>> Look forward to your replies
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kevork Krozian
>>> IT Manager , Forest Hill College
>>> k.krozian at fhc.vic.edu.au
>>> http://www.fhc.vic.edu.au <http://www.fhc.vic.edu.au/>
>>> Mobile: 0419 356 034
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> http://www.vitta.org.au <http://www.vitta.org.au/>   - VITTA Victorian
>>> Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Kelly
>> Manager - Information Systems
>> McKinnon Secondary College
>> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
>> Direct line: 8520 9085
>> School Phone +613 8520 9000
>> School Fax   +613 9578 9253
>> kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>
>> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>> <http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au/>
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>>
>> "My mother used to say to me,
>> 'In this world you must be O so smart or O so pleasant.'
>> I recommend pleasant.  You may quote me."  Harvey, 1950.
>>
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>>
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>> IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
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>> Authority
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>> Association Inc
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-- 
Regards
Mr.Timmer-Arends
Brighton SC