[Year 12 IT Apps] itapps Digest, Vol 110, Issue 19
Elliott, Matthew M
elliott.matthew.m at edumail.vic.gov.au
Wed Apr 16 13:36:35 EST 2014
Hi Andrew,
I agree that more options would be good, although we already have VCE VET IT and that could fill that gap for some of the students in my class currently, although we would need to do some staff PD (Cert 4 TAA) to make that happen. There are also a range of Media and Multimedia classes available and these are easier to staff (putting my leadership hat on).
I would prefer that what is now IT Apps remains accessible to more students but that is my opinion and might not be shared by others. I was hoping for the use of more web-based applications to move away from the 'Microsoft' focus (although some of this is important and is also accessible to all schools, both for the free software and available assistance for challenging problems). I do think that the current course is out of date and needs changing. I just think that a wider range of assessment options would be great. The Database focus will turn a lot of people (including myself) off of this course, which (without having the numbers at hand) already struggles to maintain enrolments.
Because of this I do think that the proposed changes are unrealistic for many teachers and students of the subject. I don't claim to be an expert on the topic but I suspect that there are many typically middle school IT/Multimedia teachers (like myself) who are being asked to teach this class and will be stretched by the new expectations. The difficulty that many schools find with accessing partnerships (I didn't need one this year but have maintained a link with Eltham Secondary, which is 5 hours away, due to a lack of willing and able regional schools). There are plenty of loosely available resources (if you are willing to search through the eKnowledge section of VITTA and also through Edulists) but there is also a lot of assumed knowledge that isn't well supported. The implementation of this new draft will only compound this issue.
Matt Elliott
e-Learning Development Coordinator
Red Cliffs Secondary College
0402 677 426
elearnatreddy.edublogs.org
-----Original Message-----
From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of itapps-request at edulists.com.au
Sent: Wednesday, 16 April 2014 11:59 AM
To: itapps at edulists.com.au
Subject: itapps Digest, Vol 110, Issue 19
Send itapps mailing list submissions to
itapps at edulists.com.au
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/itapps
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
itapps-request at edulists.com.au
You can reach the person managing the list at
itapps-owner at edulists.com.au
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of itapps digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: itapps Digest, Vol 110, Issue 16 (Andrew Shortell)
2. Re: itapps Digest, Vol 110, Issue 16 (Litsa Tzelepis)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 09:57:34 +1000
From: Andrew Shortell <shortell at get2me.net>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] itapps Digest, Vol 110, Issue 16
To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"
<itapps at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID: <2F947EDB-B63E-4E8A-B378-08A425790106 at get2me.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Matthew
I am still in favour of a subject called business computing run by the business people for business that sets students up to be able to work in an office and is just training like they do in TAFE I truly believe there is a place for just learning how to use software for commerce etc Maybe let it be a VET subject and be offered for students who just want to learn some skills that they can't learn themselves through using google and you-tube.
Then in our subject we can teach students to think like they do in Chemistry, History and English Literature rather than just teach them how to use a bunch of business software.
People often complain that our subject is significantly scaled down by VTAC unlike Chemistry, History and English Literature.
Please don't let me be the lone voice calling for a Business Computing (maybe VET) subject.
Surely there must be more teachers out there who would be happy teaching a Business Computing type of course
And students who want to learn a few introductory skills about different types of software
When you fill in the survey PLEASE make sure you let VCAA know that they need another subject to fill this type of need I have put that in my response.
Andrew
Andrew Shortell
Educator
CRC Melton
shortell at get2me.net (This List)
@acsbear8 (twitter)
On 15/04/2014, at 10:38 PM, "Elliott, Matthew M" <elliott.matthew.m at edumail.vic.gov.au> wrote:
> The proposed VCE IT Apps Study Design... opinions?
>
> To put it lightly, I'm very concerned.
>
> We just got kids picking U1/U2 IT and U3/U4 IT Apps again after a couple of years without a class in either - 22 kids across both classes in a small senior school was something we were quite proud of - and will now lead them elsewhere (probably towards VCE VET IT, SD or perhaps even VET Digital Media).
>
> Do the people at VCAA (the IT writers anyway) ever consider the skills and interests of teachers/students when making changes to courses? We are working hard to learn all aspects of this study design, with databases being an area of weakness. Everytime I go to a VCE IT Conference it is filled with a) Gurus who know everything and b) Suckers who are battling for the good of their kids. I think I fall somewhere in between currently but I will quickly become a 'B' if this draft passes through.
>
> Really disappointed. I was hoping that the current topics would be updated to meet modern demands. I understand databases may be what the industry wants but surely it would be better to give students a wide range of skills to increase their confidence and skills. Then, when they go to university, they might choose specialisations in areas of industry need. It also takes away the attractiveness of this subject for those who are not looking for an IT career but see the value of having these skills for other occupations (Commerce etc.).
>
> Sorry for the strong language but I'm really frustrated about this.
>
> Matt
> ________________________________________
> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> on behalf of itapps-request at edulists.com.au
> [itapps-request at edulists.com.au]
> Sent: Monday, 14 April 2014 12:00 PM
> To: itapps at edulists.com.au
> Subject: itapps Digest, Vol 110, Issue 16
>
> Send itapps mailing list submissions to
> itapps at edulists.com.au
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/itapps
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> itapps-request at edulists.com.au
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> itapps-owner at edulists.com.au
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of itapps digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Draft study design feedback (Andrew Shortell)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 11:52:46 +1000
> From: Andrew Shortell <shortell at get2me.net>
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Draft study design feedback
> To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"
> <itapps at edulists.com.au>
> Cc: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
> <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
> Message-ID: <38642E4D-7097-4506-96C4-1AC28B3744E1 at get2me.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> It is nice to have a fresh set of eyes read the document
>
> When you read the Computing: Informatics units of the Study remember the purpose of the whole study is to promote learning. Anyone can learn bits about any application but the old IPM and ITA did not step far beyond that.
>
> CI does more.
>
> Here is a great opportunity for some people to produce teaching resources for those teachers who are afraid of databases.
> And a great opportunity to move away from MicroSloth (Hat-tip to Mike Brookes) if one wants to work with good databases.
>
> I hope everyone reads it all carefully especially the new SAT which will make authentication clearer as most students will work with different data-sets in CI and with a different user interface in software Development.
>
> I like CI as a name.
>
> Imagine how good it will be to challenge students to think and then
> reflect on their thinking rather than just doing something simple with
> a piece of software and then another piece of software and then
> another piece of software. SAC after SAC after SAC
>
> Exciting times ahead
>
> Andrew
>
> Andrew Shortell
> CRC Melton
>
> On 14/04/2014, at 9:31 AM, Mark wrote:
>
>> G'day, working class.
>>
>> I've gone through the draft study design's glossary and Informatics sections so far. There's quite a bit to think about there.
>>
>> I suspect SD will be less problematic than Informatics - it always has been in the past.
>>
>> http://vceit.com/p/draft-feedback-2016.htm
>>
>> Go to town, chums.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mark Kelly
>> mark AT vceit DOT com
>> http://vceit.com
>>
>> Everything that used to be a sin is now a disease - Bill Maher
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
>> IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.htm
>> l - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority <br>
>> http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology
>> Teachers Association Inc <br> http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools
>> - Swinburne University
>
> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
> scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/itapps/attachments/20140414/f2efd
> 74b/attachment-0001.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> itapps mailing list
> itapps at edulists.com.au
> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/itapps
>
>
> End of itapps Digest, Vol 110, Issue 16
> ***************************************
>
> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.edulists.com.au - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe IT
> Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html
> - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority <br>
> http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology
> Teachers Association Inc <br> http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools
> - Swinburne University
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/itapps/attachments/20140416/2c91937a/attachment-0001.html
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 11:58:54 +1000
From: Litsa Tzelepis <htzelepis at msj.vic.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] itapps Digest, Vol 110, Issue 16
To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"
<itapps at edulists.com.au>
Message-ID:
<CAODCwv_113BYOSjWh92zD1Xzfbc8uVCb2vUoYuk-XFW5SBnRCQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Andrew. I would imagine you're not alone. And for what it's worth, I totally agree with you. What a great idea. I think I'll put that forward to our curriculum people. Love your thinking. Nice! Maybe it was obvious but I feel a lot better.
Thank you. Litsa (:-)
On Wednesday, April 16, 2014, Andrew Shortell <shortell at get2me.net> wrote:
> Hi Matthew
> I am still in favour of a subject called business computing run by the
> business people for business that sets students up to be able to work
> in an office and is just training like they do in TAFE I truly believe
> there is a place for just learning how to use software for commerce
> etc Maybe let it be a VET subject and be offered for students who just
> want to learn some skills that they can't learn themselves through
> using google and you-tube.
>
> Then in our subject we can teach students to think like they do in
> Chemistry, History and English Literature rather than just teach them
> how to use a bunch of business software.
>
> People often complain that our subject is significantly scaled down by
> VTAC unlike Chemistry, History and English Literature.
>
> Please don't let me be the lone voice calling for a Business
> Computing (maybe VET) subject.
>
> Surely there must be more teachers out there who would be happy teaching
> a Business Computing type of course
> And students who want to learn a few introductory skills about
> different types of software
>
> When you fill in the survey *PLEASE* make sure you let VCAA know that
> they need *another* subject to fill this type of need I have put that
> in my response.
>
> Andrew
>
>
> Andrew Shortell
> Educator
> CRC Melton
>
>
> shortell at get2me.net
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','shortell at get2me.net');>(This List)
> @acsbear8 (twitter)
>
>
>
>
>
> On 15/04/2014, at 10:38 PM, "Elliott, Matthew M" <
> elliott.matthew.m at edumail.vic.gov.au> wrote:
>
> The proposed VCE IT Apps Study Design... opinions?
>
> To put it lightly, I'm very concerned.
>
> We just got kids picking U1/U2 IT and U3/U4 IT Apps again after a
> couple of years without a class in either - 22 kids across both
> classes in a small senior school was something we were quite proud of
> - and will now lead them elsewhere (probably towards VCE VET IT, SD or
> perhaps even VET Digital Media).
>
> Do the people at VCAA (the IT writers anyway) ever consider the skills
> and interests of teachers/students when making changes to courses? We
> are working hard to learn all aspects of this study design, with
> databases being an area of weakness. Everytime I go to a VCE IT
> Conference it is filled with a) Gurus who know everything and b)
> Suckers who are battling for the good of their kids. I think I fall
> somewhere in between currently but I will quickly become a 'B' if this draft passes through.
>
> Really disappointed. I was hoping that the current topics would be
> updated to meet modern demands. I understand databases may be what the
> industry wants but surely it would be better to give students a wide
> range of skills to increase their confidence and skills. Then, when
> they go to university, they might choose specialisations in areas of
> industry need. It also takes away the attractiveness of this subject
> for those who are not looking for an IT career but see the value of
> having these skills for other occupations (Commerce etc.).
>
> Sorry for the strong language but I'm really frustrated about this.
>
> Matt
> ________________________________________
> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> on behalf of itapps-request at edulists.com.au
> [itapps-request at edulists.com.au]
> Sent: Monday, 14 April 2014 12:00 PM
> To: itapps at edulists.com.au
> Subject: itapps Digest, Vol 110, Issue 16
>
> Send itapps mailing list submissions to
> itapps at edulists.com.au
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/itapps
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> itapps-request at edulists.com.au
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> itapps-owner at edulists.com.au
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of itapps digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Draft study design feedback (Andrew Shortell)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 11:52:46 +1000
> From: Andrew Shortell <shortell at get2me.net>
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Draft study design feedback
> To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"
> <itapps at edulists.com.au>
> Cc: Year 12 Software Development Teachers' Mailing List
> <sofdev at edulists.com.au>
> Message-ID: <38642E4D-7097-4506-96C4-1AC28B3744E1 at get2me.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> It is nice to have a fresh set of eyes read the document
>
> When you read the Computing: Informatics units of the Study remember
> the purpose of the whole study is to promote learning. Anyone can
> learn bits about any application but the old IPM and ITA did not step far beyond that.
>
> CI does more.
>
> Here is a great opportunity for some people to produce teaching reso
>
>
--
Sent from Gmail Mobile
--
IMPORTANT! This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Mount St Joseph Girls'
College does not represent or warrant that the attached files are free from computer viruses or other defects. The attached files are provided, and may only be used, on the basis that the user assumes all responsibility for any loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from the use of the attached files, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. The liability of Mount St Joseph Girls' College is limited in any event to either the resupply of the attached files or the cost of having the attached files resupplied. Any representations or opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of Mount St Joseph Girls' College.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.edulists.com.au/pipermail/itapps/attachments/20140416/4f2e1b6b/attachment.html
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
itapps mailing list
itapps at edulists.com.au
http://www.edulists.com.au/mailman/listinfo/itapps
End of itapps Digest, Vol 110, Issue 19
***************************************
Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
More information about the itapps
mailing list