[Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting outcomes
Stephanie POLAN
pos at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
Wed Jun 5 14:18:27 EST 2013
Thank you everyone, You are all wise and wonderful and have made me feel so
much better, with your help I have ascertained that I'm not crazy!!
Your advice has made a huge difference!!
Cheers
Stepha
On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Mark Scott <msc at luther.vic.edu.au> wrote:
> I agree but my original comment still stands.
>
> An "S" is meaningless to "future employees or tertiary institutions".
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:
> itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Savage, John L
> Sent: Wednesday, 5 June 2013 1:31 PM
> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting outcomes
>
> In a school where many parents may only have a primary school education,
> the achievement of a "High School Diploma" is an end in itself and is not
> to be sneezed at and will often represent sheer persistence. Not all year
> 12 students are aiming for tertiary entrance although 60% of ours get there
> and almost none are unemployed after year 12.
>
> Laurie Savage
> Pascoe Vale Girls College
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:
> itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Matheson, Geoff J
> Sent: Wednesday, 5 June 2013 8:02 AM
> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting outcomes
>
> I'm not so sure you can say that the "S" is meaningless in the real world.
> For many of my students, completing the VCE is an achievement in and of
> itself, and the "S" is the ultimate determinant on whether or not that
> happens. "Completing the VCE" still has meaning for employers, and I find
> that if students are struggling to meet the "S" requirements of IT Apps or
> Software Development, they are likely struggling to complete the VCE more
> broadly.
>
>
> Geoff Matheson
> Senior Campus Reports Co-ordinator
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/06/13 4:42 AM, "Mark Scott" <msc at luther.vic.edu.au> wrote:
>
> >Steph
> >
> >Just keep in mind that future employees or tertiary institutions won't
> >hold an S in a subject in any high regard if their marks are so low
> >that they do not achieve a reportable ATAR.
> >As Robert has said the consequences for the student is the UG grade.
> >The S is meaningless in the real world.
> >
> >Mark Scott
> >Luther College
> >
> >
> >
> >Mark Scott
> >Daily Administrator
> >
> >Plymouth Road
> >Croydon Hills Victoria 3136
> >
> >
> >Telephone (03) 9724 2000
> >Direct Line (03) 9724 2023
> >www.luther.vic.edu.au
> >
> >Please consider the environment before printing this email.
> >
> >This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential
> >information.
> >If you are not the intended recipient you may not distribute or
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> >in error please notify us by return mail.
> >________________________________________
> >From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> >On Behalf Of Robert Timmer-Arends [timmer at westnet.com.au]
> >Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 6:58 PM
> >To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
> >Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting outcomes
> >
> >Hello Stephanie
> >
> >just to add to Robert's statement, the study design also says (p31) 'to
> >achieve this outcome the student will draw on key knowledge and key
> >skills outlined in Area of Study 2' and then goes on to list 15 KK
> >points and 6 KS points. From what you have said, the student has
> >demonstrated a minimum knowledge of the use of the chosen software
> >(covered by dot point 4 of KS) and nothing else. For example, did
> >he/she design a solution? did he/she select and apply testing
> >methods...? has he/she demonstrated knowledge of design tools for
> >describing data type? and so on. VCAA says the dot points should not be
> >a checklist, but at the same time this does not mean a student should
> >be given the nod for just demonstrating achievement of one of them.
> >
> >Also, don't forget that while the student may eventually be awarded an 'S'
> >for the outcome (as others have pointed out), the grade you award for
> >the SAC (which is 'stand-alone') will stand no matter what the student
> >demonstrated beforehand or demonstrates afterward - and it sounds like
> >a UG is in the offing.
> >
> >Regards
> >Robert T-A
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <geoffmoss37 at bigpond.com>
> >To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"
> ><itapps at edulists.com.au>
> >Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 5:38 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting outcomes
> >
> >
> >> Hi Stephanie
> >>
> >> I agree with Robert. Keep in mind that the granting of the 'S' does
> >>not need to occur in the production of the SAC. The student should
> >>be/is able to demonstrate these skills during the time of the
> >>outcome, including the practice SAC and any other preparatory
> >>classes, as well as during the SAC.
> >>
> >> This enables a student who was unable to attend or complete a SAC due
> >> to illness or any other excuse that does not allow an extension to
> >> gain an 'S' for the outcome.
> >>
> >> Geoff Moss
> >> RMIT
> >>
> >> ---- Robert <robert at yinnar.com> wrote:
> >>> Hi Stephanie,
> >>>
> >>> Neither Wonderful nor Wise, but certainly older than Mark :-)
> >>>
> >>> To add to Mark Scott's response to your question. I do not agree
> >>> with Mark.
> >>>
> >>> The study design clearly states that
> >>>
> >>> "The award of satisfactory completion for a unit is based on a
> >>> decision that the student has demonstrated achievement of the set of
> >>> outcomes specified for the unit. This decision will be based on the
> >>> teacher's assessment of the student's performance on assessment
> >>> tasks designated for the unit."
> >>>
> >>> So in terms of Unit 3 Outcome 2, Task 1, the student would have to
> >>>
> >>> "Design, and develop using a relational database management system,
> >>> a solution to an information problem"
> >>>
> >>> This does require the student to, amongst other things: ( See
> >>>Assessment Handbook )
> >>> a.. select and use appropriate software functions of relational
> >>>database management software, as published annually in the VCAA
> >>>Bulletin VCE, VCAL and VET, to create database tables, relationships
> >>>among them and to construct queries to retrieve required information
> >>>(underlining
> >>> mine)
> >>> If your student did not do this then he should not get an S. By your
> >>>description he did not did not do all this.
> >>>
> >>> By all means give him a chance to redeem himself, in fact you should
> >>> do this.
> >>>
> >>> Robert Hind
> >>> Retired
> >>> Ex Traralgon and Ashwood
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: Mark Scott
> >>> To: 'Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List'
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 3:42 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting outcomes
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi Steph
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Not sure if I qualify as Wonderful or Wise but.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Yes this is an S.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> We did away with the concept of "fail" years ago so we could brag
> >>>about the "pass" rate at VCE.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Mark
> >>>
> >>> Luther College
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Mark Scott
> >>> Daily Administrator
> >>> Luther
> >>>
> >>> Plymouth Road
> >>> Croydon Hills Victoria 3136
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Luther
> >>>
> >>> Telephone (03) 9724 2000
> >>> Direct Line (03) 9724 2023
> >>> www.luther.vic.edu.au
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
> >>>
> >>> This email and any attachments may contain privileged and
> >>>confidential information.
> >>> If you are not the intended recipient you may not distribute or
> >>>reproduce this email
> >>> or attachments. If you have received this message in error please
> >>>notify us by return mail.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au
> >>> [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Stephanie POLAN
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, 4 June 2013 3:21 PM
> >>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
> >>> Subject: [Year 12 IT Apps] Students meeting outcomes
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Good Afternoon Wonderfully Wise People,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I'm looking for your professional opinion on the topic of how much
> >>>work a student must produce in order to gain an S on outcome 2 unit
> >>>3.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I have a student that opened Access, created a table, created a
> >>> query that didn't do anything 'query-like' he did all the sorting
> >>> and calculating outside of Access.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Apparently this is enough to get an S.
> >>>
> >>> This is my first year teaching year 12 and find this concept
> >>> unbelievable, I can not comprehend this.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Your professional opinion/coping strategies would be much
> >>>appreciated.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Steph Polan
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Miss Polan
> >>>
> >>> McKinnon SC
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>---
> >>>------
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
> >>>
> >>>http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.htm
> >>>l
> >>> - Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority <br>
> >>> http://www.vitta.org.au - VITTA Victorian Information Technology
> >>>Teachers Association Inc <br>
> >>> http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools - Swinburne University
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>>
> >>>
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> >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >>> Version: 2013.0.3343 / Virus Database: 3184/6380 - Release Date:
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> >>
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> >
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> Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If
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> Teachers Association Inc <br>
> http://www.swinburne.edu.au/ict/schools - Swinburne University
>
--
Miss Polan
McKinnon SC
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