[Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...

Tue Nov 15 12:22:49 EST 2011

Ah but I know lots if commercial programs that do this.
Sort numbers as text.
It's very annoying.
Plus you are falling into the teaching Microsoft only trap.
There are other possibilities.
I rather like the question as a descriminator for thinking students.

Royce Williams
Sent from my AppleBerry

On 15/11/2011, at 11:47 AM, Adric Gardner <gardner.adric.a at edumail.vic.gov.au> wrote:

> Actually in excel, if it is entered as 
> 
> '6
> '17 etc (don't have the exam in front of me)
> 
> It is sorted as text.  But off memory, that's not what the question asked
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Adric Gardner
> 
> On 15/11/2011, at 11:19 AM, Robert Hind <robert at yinnar.com> wrote:
> 
>> So you do that in Excel and it totally ignores your formatting as text and sorts as though the entries are numbers. Do the same in Access and it does accept that the field is text and does sort as text.
>>  
>> Thank you Microsoft
>>  
>> Robert Hind (Semi-retired) OOF, GOM, COF
>> Ashwood and Traralgon
>> robert at yinnar.com
>>  
>>  
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Mark Scott
>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 11:02 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...
>> 
>>  
>> Putting commas in front of the numbers changes the question.
>>  
>> The only way to enter numbers as text in by formatting the cells or the field as text.
>>  
>> WOOF
>>  
>> thanks
>> Mark Scott
>> Luther College
>>  
>> "The busier you get, the slower you walk" anon
>>  
>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark KELLY
>> Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 10:42 AM
>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...
>>  
>> Try forcing the numbers to be text (put an apostophe in front of the digits) and try it again.  Excel has to ask you what you really want to sort as text or as thinks that "look like numbers."
>> 
>> 
>> On 15 November 2011 09:37, Esko Lossi <elossi at chairo.vic.edu.au> wrote:
>> When I do question 13 (Section A) on a spreadsheet, the answer the spreadsheet gives is A.
>>  
>> Regards
>> Esko Lossi
>> ICT/Reporting Coordinator
>> Chairo Christian School, Drouin Campus
>> Contact: 56254600 ext 101
>> elossi at chairo.vic.edu.au
>>  
>> Disclaimer: Whilst every attempt has been made to ensure that material contained in this email is free from computer viruses or other defects, the attached files are provided, and may only be used, on the basis that the user assumes all responsibility for use of the material transmitted. This email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above and may contain information that is confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately by return email or telephone 03 5625 4600 and destroy the original message. The contents of this message are provided without responsibility in law for their accuracy or otherwise and without assumption of a duty of care by the Warragul District Parent Controlled Christian School Association Incorporated trading as Chairo Christian School.
>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Ken Tonkin
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 9:29 AM
>> 
>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...
>>  
>> David, I agree with most of your answers for the MC questions, except no.9 I think the answer should be 9B as tactical decisions are more short term and specific.
>> Ken Tonkin
>>  
>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Howard, David
>> Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 8:31 AM
>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...
>>  
>> I’m with Mark on this one. Definitely A.
>>  
>> Validation can ensure that I input a date of birth for example that is reasonable, say 12/08/1981 but is it accurate, no!
>>  
>>  
>> Here are my multiple choice answers.
>>  
>> 1 B
>> 2 A
>> 3 D
>> 4 D
>> 5 A
>> 6 A
>> 7 B
>> 8 A
>> 9 A – not so confident on that one
>> 10 A
>> 11 C
>> 12 C
>> 13 B
>> 14 B
>> 15 D
>> 16 C
>> 17 B
>> 18 B
>> 19 C
>> 20 C
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> David Howard
>> Head of IT & Learning Technologies 
>> 
>> <image001.jpg> 
>> 
>> 25 Chapel Street, St Kilda VIC 3182 Australia
>> 
>> Phone +61 3 8530 3272 
>> Fax +61 3 9510 9392 
>> Email dhoward at stmichaels.vic.edu.au
>> Website www.stmichaels.vic.edu.au
>> CRICOS Provider 00345G
>> <image002.jpg> 
>> 
>> <image003.jpg>
>> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>> 
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark Scott
>> Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 8:14 AM
>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...
>>  
>>  
>> Validation deals with data entry.
>>  
>> Options B, C and D are all testing to ensure data manipulation is correct/accurate etc.
>>  
>> Only option A clearly deals with data entry (i.e. the most correct option)
>>  
>> thanks
>> Mark Scott
>> Luther College
>>  
>> "The busier you get, the slower you walk" anon
>>  
>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Michael    Torsello (Mr)
>> Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 8:03 AM
>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...
>>  
>> Dear wiser colleagues
>> Can someone help me with MC question 8?
>>  
>> An effective validation technique is evident when … all answers seem to support the presence of an effective validation technique.
>>  
>> A – at first glance the answer but is reasonableness the best evidence of validation?
>> B- an accurate report suggests accurate input data, doesn’t it?
>> C- least likely but again “reasonably”? What does that mean? If data can be sorted is it valid?
>> D –calculated files gives correct answers! Is this evidence of GIGO – not garbage in, garbage out, but good in, good out?
>>  
>> I’m confused!
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> With Thanks
>> Michael Torsello
>> Director of Computing
>> St Margaret's School, Berwick
>> Berwick Grammar School, Officer
>> Ph: (03) 9703 8111
>>  
>> P Save paper and trees. Do you need to print this    email?
>>  
>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Ben Hines
>> Sent: Monday, 14 November 2011 4:32 PM
>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...
>>  
>> Yeah I just found that, thanks
>>  
>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Howard, David
>> Sent: Monday, 14 November 2011 3:39 PM
>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...
>>  
>> A – Scope see page 17 of the study design.
>>  
>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Ben Hines
>> Sent: Monday, 14 November 2011 2:37 PM
>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...
>>  
>> I cannot believe that number question. No one would normally type numbers in as numerals, set the data type to text and then order from A ->    Z.
>>  
>> I doubt anyone would get the answer to that unless they have accidentally done it in the past.
>>  
>> Because you have entered them as text, the sort will only look at the left most number to order them (just like with normal ones).
>>  
>> Answer according to Access is B….
>>  
>> Question 5 in the Multiple Choice? What’s the consensus on that one?
>>  
>> Ta
>>  
>>  
>> <image004.gif>
>> Mr Ben Hines
>>  
>> VCE Maths/ICT Teacher
>> Senior School Campus - Christian College Geelong
>> ((03) 52411577 (ext. 212)
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Howard, David
>> Sent: Monday, 14 November 2011 2:15 PM
>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...
>>  
>> I don’t have the paper in front of me, but after a quick chat to my students, plain to see that they had differing opinions on the sorting of numbers as text question in the multiple choice.
>>  
>> I’m not marking this year by the way.
>>  
>> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Mark KELLY
>> Sent: Monday, 14 November 2011 1:52 PM
>> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>> Subject: [Year 12 IT Apps] Puts down the rifle...
>>  
>> I'm reading the paper now. 
>> 
>> Section A looks pretty free of rabies.
>> 
>> I have put the gun down after reading the normalisation question...  Thank Dog sanity prevailed on that one!
>> 
>> Damn that ERD question - three marks and they had to draw an entire diagram from scratch!  Grrr.
>> 
>> The 8 mark question appeared, as we expected.  And it was approachable.
>> 
>> Overall, I think I might give the dog a bone.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Kelly
>> Manager of ICT, Reporting, IT Learning Area
>> McKinnon Secondary College
>> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
>> Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085, Fax +613 9578 9253
>> kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>> VCE IT Lecture Notes: http://vceit.com
>> Moderator: IT Applications Edulist
>> 
>> Want a good time? Call 0112358. Ask for Mr Fibonacci.
>>  
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>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Kelly
>> Manager of ICT, Reporting, IT Learning Area
>> McKinnon Secondary College
>> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia
>> Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085, Fax +613 9578 9253
>> kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>> VCE IT Lecture Notes: http://vceit.com
>> Moderator: IT Applications Edulist
>> 
>> Want a good time? Call 0112358. Ask for Mr Fibonacci.
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