[Year 12 IT Apps] itapps RIP
Bane, Janet A
bane.janet.a at edumail.vic.gov.au
Thu Nov 4 12:26:51 EST 2010
Hi Warrick
I'm not saying that databases are not important. I think the point is that the kids don't see it as something they want to study, no matter how important they are in real life.
Yes there is a multimedia course in VET, which some schools offer. But at the moment the traditional ITA course doesn't have that component. Maybe its time we looked at it at least. I suppose the questions to ask is whether kids are "voting with their feet" and enrolments are increasing in multimedia. at the expense of the traditional IT/ITA courses. If it is, then surely this is worth considering. I don't want to see IT teachers out of a job, or see the numbers decline. I understand that kids don't do IT for various reasons (as outlined by Paula in her earlier email) but surely we can't afford more "same old, same old" when the next course comes out.
regards
Janet Bane
Patterson River SC
p.s. I love spreadsheets too!
________________________________
From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Mann, Warrick D
Sent: Thu 04-Nov-10 12:02 PM
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] itapps RIP
Hi Janet,
I feel Databases ARE very important. I also work for a Ski Resort running their IT systems. EVERY piece of software we run IS on a database. I use this to show my kids the importance of Databases and it really helps them understand the importance. I quite often also set them a similar task in Excel to try to complete, and they find that MUCH harder than in Access.
While I like, and see the importance of multimedia. There is an entire subject on Multimedia.
My $0.02
Cheers
Warrick
From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of Bane, Janet A
Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2010 11:46 AM
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: RE: [Year 12 IT Apps] itapps RIP
I wonder if we will be having this discussion next year. Will there be teachers who are losing classes because the kids aren't choosing IT? My gut feeling is yes - the new study design does little to motivate or enthuse students into selecting it.
That's the bottom line. That's what we should be addressing.
I do not wish to criticise anyone who has had the onerous task of trying to put together a new study design, its a tough job and thank goodness we have people willing to put their hand up and do it. But... if I had the job, I would be trying to tap more into student's creative talents. I think this would make it more appealing to girls, at least. My course would be something like this:
Unit 3:
Outcome 1 - Web design - a choice of a virtual team scenario or an e-commerce scenario.
Outcome 2 - Databases or spreadsheets (if we must)
Unit 4:
Outcome 1 - multimedia. Students work on a multimedia project of some kind (yes I know its vague), that has to incorporate both image and sound files, and then present it to an audience. They are assessed not just on their IT skills, but the way in which the presentation meets the design criteria and the audience's reactions
Outcome 2 - data security/privacy/ethics etc.
I wonder what other people would include in their "phantom" IT courses?
regards
Janet Bane
Patterson River SC
________________________________
From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Fitzpatrick, Michael
Sent: Mon 01-Nov-10 4:13 PM
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] itapps RIP
Hi George
If you want to examine a course that encompases technology, people and uses of IT in a variety of scenarios have a look at the IB IT in a Global Society two year course.
However the major emphasis is on the impact of IT on people and society which the IT Apps course is not about.
You might get some ideas about 'sexing' up parts of the IT Apps course by adding context to the 'dry!!' technical approach, but it does take up a large amount of time. And Year 12 is dominated by the exams of course.
Mike
The course booklet is attached.
________________________________________
From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] On Behalf Of George Ciotti [ciotti.george.w at edumail.vic.gov.au]
Sent: Monday, 1 November 2010 2:36 PM
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] itapps RIP
My first point would be to say that the heavy reliance of databases and
spreadsheets does, at least on the surface, tend to channel the ITA course
into a Business Management area. I do agree that databases, while they are
to be found almost universally in the IT field, could be presented in a
much, let's say, "sexier" manner. Yet in my short experience, the
restrictions that schools find themselves in, in terms of supplied software,
it's usually Microsoft Office, hence Access is the DB tool, and network
restrictions negating the use of, as one example, CMS opportunities like
Joomla which employs PHP and MySQL, can make it tough to sexy this area up.
It can become very pedestrian. And this can also be partly due to the lack
experience that some students bring into the classroom with software the
like of Access.
I feel that ITA is in a quandry at the moment. It did(?) after all have its
roots from a Business Studies orientation and it seems like it is still
clinging on. Spreadsheet activities the type of U401, apart from its
Documentation aspects, are very Business Studies oriented.
While examples of how Google works are fine but just how do you translate
that excitement into the classroom is the big question. Well, you could look
at real-world applications which are more about Social networking and
communication and which have an intrinsic commercial base. Starting with
Google perhaps you can look at the Facebook phenomena as an example, ITA
could head into more psychological and philosophical analyses of these
systems and their trends. Taking a more macro level perspective. Looking at
how these evolving systems affect not only the way business/IT activities
are resolved or facilitated but how the lives of those in the midst of this
change are affected. This would make the conversation include the students
who are at the forefront of this constantly evolving field. They use
Facebook and they inherently understand that it uses a database backend.
They could bring their real-life experience into the classroom. Things like
looking at the reasons why website development has changed and is changing;
analysing, researching, predicting and most importantly, discussing. Not so
much about learning how to use a database but more about why a database is
used and the different flavours of databases available... Integrating more
macro perspectives may provide a broader context for the student and may
also help alleviate the compromised hardware and software issues that micro
centered problem solving tends to bring with it. This can be left to the
tertiary level courses that are adequately kitted out for this activity. By
this stage the student is better prepared to know whether they want to learn
how to use a database and the reasons why.
My 2c and I am not biased.
Cheers
George
On 11/1/10 12:34 PM, "Adrian Janson" <janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au>
wrote:
> Hi Andrew,
>
> I have to disagree with you on a number of counts.
>
> "The reason for the death of ITAPPS is because the course writers couldn't
> keep up to date with the emerging technology" - there is plenty of emerging
> technology in the course with the flexibility of adding in technologies that
> come to the fore as the course is running. One of the challenges in writing
> a 4-year course AND writing a technology based course is how quickly
> technology moves. However, the writing team has taken this into account and
> kept the course as open as possible.
>
> "with spreadsheets and databases considered irrelevant by the kids" -
> really? How are databases irrelevant when the every single information
> system in the world relies on them (including the Internet)? Did you have a
> look at that great "how Google works" link? Show that to your students and
> they will not say that databases are irrelevant. And spreadsheets - well, I
> have a spreadsheet for my own household budget, I do my tax returns in
> spreadsheets, my builder (we are doing a renovation at the moment), has a
> huge spreadsheet and he scares on a daily basis with how many of our costs
> are running over. At the risk of being controversial - spreadsheets and
> databases are in the teaching. You could make them very boring if you
> wanted to!
>
> "There was not enough consultation done with business/industry groups to
> look exactly at what IT skills need to be explicitly taught." - how do you
> know this? I was on the writing panel and I can tell you that there was
> wide consultation with both tertiary and industry!
>
> "course did nothing for me or the students and the revised study design will
> terminate it" - I don't think that the students know much about the course
> content and we assume too much when we say that the students don't like the
> new course. Our students are not reading the new study design and they only
> know what we tell them (or what students from previous years tell them).
>
>
> My 2c - and I AM biased - yes.
>
> Cheers,
> Adrian
>
> Adrian Janson B.Sc, Dip.Ed, M.Ed
> Director of ICT
> Melbourne High School, Forrest Hill, South Yarra, Victoria 3141 Australia.
> Phone: 03 9826 0711 International: +61 3 9826 0711
> Fax: 03 9826 8767 International: +61 3 9826 8767
> E-mail: janson.adrian.a at edumail.vic.gov.au
> Website: http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au <http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au/>
> Blog: http://jansona.edublogs.org <http://jansona.edublogs.org/>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au]
> On Behalf Of Andrew Kemp
> Sent: Monday, 1 November 2010 10:29 AM
> To: itapps at edulists.com.au
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] itapps RIP
>
> The reason for the death of ITAPPS is because the course writers couldn't
> keep up to date with the emerging technology and school budgets were
> ill-equipped to provide the hardware required to successfully teach the
> technology. The course ended up being stuck in no-man's land, with
> spreadsheets and databases considered irrelevant by the kids, or better
> suited to business management. There was not enough consultation done with
> business/industry groups to look exactly at what IT skills need to be
> explicitly taught.
> I quite enjoyed teaching the old IPM course, but the ITA course did nothing
> for me or the students and the revised study design will terminate it.
> regards
> Andy Kemp
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 22:40:42 +0000
> From: Kent Beveridge <kbeveridge at stbc.vic.edu.au>
> Subject: [Year 12 IT Apps] ITApps RIP. Kent.
> To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"
> <itapps at edulists.com.au>
> Message-ID:
> <64FBC7D59E9D6B4DA547B82B7F07665C229C6A9D at garlic.stbc.vic.edu.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Alas...ITApps is no longer at my school for 2011. (replaced by the Cert 3.)
>
> Looking to intro SD in 2012. (may use PHP, Python or maybe VB as the
> languages. Also looking at the ADOBE collection for suitable programs to
> develop an 'App' as I have noted it is possible with this software. One of
> my brighter y9'ers is already experimenting with this tool too as we are
> collaborating on this one). Might also purchase one of the texts around and
> try the work. ).
>
> Have already joined AJ's web site for ideas and possible teaching tools.
> Anyone else willing to share info and course development/teaching materials
> during next year so I can get myself up to speed, would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Also considering introducing building some 'apps' for my year 9 and 10
> classes as a new incentive to build/rebuild interest in middle level
> computing here(not just around the games theme as I already do that for term
> 1). Again, any help or suggestions welcomed folks..
>
> Rather than let I.T. die a slow death here..I am proactive in trying to keep
> its content dynamic AND actively encourage the female gender to continue
> with computing beyond the junior years..
>
> The biggest challenge I find is that the kids grow up with tech toys and
> computers...
>
> Perhaps I will put my hand up to be an Assessor next year for Apps as am not
> teaching it in 2011.
>
> KB.
>
> Kent Beveridge
> ICT Co-ordinator, St.Brigids CSC, HORSHAM,Vic,Aus.
> ________________________________
> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] on
> behalf of Mark KELLY [kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au]
> Sent: Sunday, 31 October 2010 12:33 PM
> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: [Year 12 IT Apps] Abracadabra! The magical disappearing task.
>
> Hi all. One of the stated improvements of the new ITA U4O1 next year is
> that it only has 2 tasks instead of 3.
>
> It's seems magical - but it's only sleight of hand.
>
> This year there are 3 tasks:
>
> 1. software solution (35 marks)
> 2. user documentation (15)
> 3. visualising of thinking. (10)
>
> Next year there are 2 tasks:
>
> 1. software solution INCLUDING USER DOCUMENTATION (50 marks - Hey presto: 35
> plus 15!)
> 2. Evaluation (10)
>
> Still 3 tasks. Same amount of work. It's just the packaging has changed,
> and VCAA has added "NEW! IMPROVED!" to the package.
>
> I'm annoyed that it's taken me so long to see that the rabbit was in the hat
> the whole time... :-[
>
> --
> Mark Kelly
> Manager Information Systems
> Reporting Manager
> IT Learning Area Manager
>
> McKinnon Secondary College
> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204
> Victoria, Australia
> Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085
> Fax +613 9578 9253
> kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au<mailto:kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
>
> VCE IT Lecture Notes: http://vceit.com <http://vceit.com/>
> Moderator: IT Applications Edulist
>
> For no reason, my friend became a square, flat surface with four legs. I
> rushed him to hospital. His condition is table.
>
>
>
>
> Click here<https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/wQw0zmjPoHdJTZGyOCrrhg==> to
> report this email as spam.
>
>
> This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com <http://www.websense.com/>
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> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 10:01:03 +1100
> From: Roland Gesthuizen <rgesthuizen at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] ITApps RIP. Kent.
> To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"
> <itapps at edulists.com.au>
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTi=-26SdATnejU9grs3qbZwU=pQUnr-PzosxEUGy at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I am changing schools and oddly, I have just been told that nobody wants to
> now do IT at year 11. Not sure if this is related to my departure, had some
> doubts about the long term viability of ITA here so have switched the
> remaining small 2011 year 12 group to SD. I hope the new teacher can do it
> justice. Declining enrollments of VCE international students and a decline
> in support for middle school technology classes are probably partly to
> blame.
>
> Regards Roland
>
> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Kent Beveridge
> <kbeveridge at stbc.vic.edu.au>wrote:
>
>> Alas...ITApps is no longer at my school for 2011. (replaced by the Cert
>> 3.)
>>
>> Looking to intro SD in 2012. (may use PHP, Python or maybe VB as the
>> languages. Also looking at the ADOBE collection for suitable programs to
>> develop an 'App' as I have noted it is possible with this software. One of
>> my brighter y9'ers is already experimenting with this tool too as we are
>> collaborating on this one). Might also purchase one of the texts around
> and
>> try the work. ).
>>
>> Have already joined AJ's web site for ideas and possible teaching tools.
>> Anyone else willing to share info and course development/teaching
> materials
>> during next year so I can get myself up to speed, would be greatly
>> appreciated.
>>
>> Also considering introducing building some 'apps' for my year 9 and 10
>> classes as a new incentive to build/rebuild interest in middle level
>> computing here(not just around the games theme as I already do that for
> term
>> 1). Again, any help or suggestions welcomed folks..
>>
>> Rather than let I.T. die a slow death here..I am proactive in trying to
>> keep its content dynamic AND actively encourage the female gender to
>> continue with computing beyond the junior years..
>>
>> The biggest challenge I find is that the kids grow up with tech toys and
>> computers...
>>
>> Perhaps I will put my hand up to be an Assessor next year for Apps as am
>> not teaching it in 2011.
>>
>> KB.
>>
>> Kent Beveridge
>> ICT Co-ordinator, St.Brigids CSC, HORSHAM,Vic,Aus.
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au] on
>> behalf of Mark KELLY [kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au]
>> *Sent:* Sunday, 31 October 2010 12:33 PM
>> *To:* Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
>> *Subject:* [Year 12 IT Apps] Abracadabra! The magical disappearing task.
>>
>> Hi all. One of the stated improvements of the new ITA U4O1 next year is
>> that it only has 2 tasks instead of 3.
>>
>> It's seems magical - but it's only sleight of hand.
>>
>> This year there are 3 tasks:
>>
>> 1. software solution (35 marks)
>> 2. user documentation (15)
>> 3. visualising of thinking. (10)
>>
>> Next year there are 2 tasks:
>>
>> 1. software solution INCLUDING USER DOCUMENTATION (50 marks - Hey presto:
>> 35 plus 15!)
>> 2. Evaluation (10)
>>
>> Still 3 tasks. Same amount of work. It's just the packaging has changed,
>> and VCAA has added "NEW! IMPROVED!" to the package.
>>
>> I'm annoyed that it's taken me so long to see that the rabbit was in the
>> hat the whole time... :-[
>>
>> --
>> Mark Kelly
>> Manager Information Systems
>> Reporting Manager
>> IT Learning Area Manager
>>
>> McKinnon Secondary College
>> McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204
>> Victoria, Australia
>> Direct line / Voicemail: +613 8520 9085
>> Fax +613 9578 9253
>> kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>
>> VCE IT Lecture Notes: http://vceit.com <http://vceit.com/>
>> Moderator: IT Applications Edulist
>>
>> For no reason, my friend became a square, flat surface with four legs. I
>> rushed him to hospital. His condition is table.
>>
>>
>>
>> Click here <https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/wQw0zmjPoHdJTZGyOCrrhg==> to
>> report this email as spam.
>>
>>
>> This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com <http://www.websense.com/>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au/> - FAQ, resources, subscribe, unsubscribe
>> IT Applications Mailing List kindly supported by
>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html -
>> Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
>> http://www.vitta.org.au <http://www.vitta.org.au/> - VITTA Victorian Information Technology Teachers
>> Association Inc
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Roland Gesthuizen - ICT Coordinator - Westall Secondary College
> http://www.westallsc.vic.edu.au <http://www.westallsc.vic.edu.au/>
>
> "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change
> the world; indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead
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