[Year 12 IT Apps] a formatting "comment"..Kent

Tue Aug 11 10:05:53 EST 2009

I think the terms Query and Report are generic and predate Access by several
years. Before Access came along Dbase and Paradox were using this
terminology back in the days of DOS, Crystal Reports (Windows) was querying
databases to format reports, and SQL (Structured Query Language) has been
with us a long time.

Laurie Savage
PVGC

-----Original Message-----
From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au [mailto:itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au]
On Behalf Of Mark Kelly
Sent: Sunday, 9 August 2009 2:12 PM
To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] a formatting "comment"..Kent

VCAA cannot prescribe software used in outcomes.  If they DO decide to do
so, they must publish the prescribed software as they do with Software
Development's approved programming languages.

They MUST accept any answer that is correct for ANY available software
product: spreadsheet, DBMS, web editor etc.

They MUST NOT ask questions that are specific to any one of the available
varieties of software products (e.g. Access, Excel), including the esoteric
terminology used by them.

They'd better not ask another Access-specific question this year.  The very
mention of "queries" or "reports" is too brand-specific.  It seriously
disadvantages Filemaker Pro users, for example.

It worries me how they assume a particular family or brand of software is
"standard" and merrily ask questions assuming that EVERYONE uses that family
or brand.

It's wrong and must stop.

I feel better now.

Kent Beveridge wrote:
> If I may, an observation...
> Personally, I am a "majority Microsoft" product user, not by desire but
just essentially as that is what my employers (the various schools of my
teaching time..) have had available to use for my I.T. classroom ramblings.
> Surely the VCAA can be flexible enough to allow the examiners to mark as
'correct' the essentials of formulae presented to them by students. What I
mean is, what if the students have NEVER used Microsoft or APPLE products?
Surely they shouldnt be penalised when in fact their solution would work on
their "flavor" of application software (eg open source spreadsheet or other
market available alternative).
> If we are to produce flexible and thinking students for employers then we
must allow them to provide solutions appropriate to their working
environments.
> Case in point: Applications developers in the commercial workforce may use
a program that is nothing like Microsoft and yet will do the same job most
efficiently on the mainframe in the workplace. I ask you VCAA...how many
schools out there have a mainframe costing millions of bucks that runs the
exact same formats and conventions of Microsoft on all their applications?
Lets get real here with our exam expectations on the students and allow them
some flexibility with their answers!
>  
>  
> Kent.
>  
> Kent Beveridge,
> St. Brigids CSC, Horsham.
> Ph (03) 5382 3545
> http://www.stbc.vic.edu.au/
> kbeveridge at stbc.vic.edu.au
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> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: itapps-bounces at edulists.com.au on behalf of Roland Gesthuizen
> Sent: Sat 8/8/2009 2:02 PM
> To: Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Examination reports
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it isnt so much as they came up with something different or that 
> they have invented a new standard. There is an open standards group 
> that is trying to improve the exchange of recalculated formulas in 
> spreadsheets and I suspect that is what they have used. Google Docs 
> uses this format too. Let me check. Yep .. works with double quotes.
> 
> Curious I did not directly spot this before as I jump across between 
> XLS, ODC and GoogleDocs. Shows how plastic our minds are to these 
> subtle changes. I guess when it flags an error, I just thump my 
> forehead to shake a neuron loose and amend the formula with either 
> single or double quotes. REM hmmm
> 
> Regards Roland
> 
> 2009/8/7 Robert <robert at yinnar.com>:
>> And I have just checked Open Office. Different again.
>>
>> Requires semicolons rather than commas as separators between items, 
>> eg
>>
>> =IF(C2>40;"yes";"no")
>>
>> ?
>>
>>
>> Robert Hind (Semi-retired)
>> Ashwood and Traralgon
>> robert at yinnar.com
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert" <robert at yinnar.com>
>> To: <itapps at edulists.com.au>
>> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 3:50 PM
>> Subject: Fw: [Year 12 IT Apps] Examination reports
>>
>>
>>> Whoops! I missed out one (double straight) quote :-)
>>>
>>> Should have read:
>>>
>>> And can I add to Mark's message by noting that Excel does not like 
>>> "smart quotes", or curly quotes but only straight quotes, ie
>>>
>>> =IF(C2>40,"YES"," ")
>>>
>>> Robert Hind (Semi-retired)
>>> Ashwood and Traralgon
>>> robert at yinnar.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert" <robert at yinnar.com>
>>> To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"
>>> <itapps at edulists.com.au>
>>> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 3:33 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Examination reports
>>>
>>>
>>>> And can I add to Mark's message by noting that Excel does not like 
>>>> "smart quotes", or curly quotes but only straight quotes, ie
>>>>
>>>> =IF(C2>40,"YES," ")
>>>>
>>>> Pedantic? Yes! But Excel, and other apps, will only accept exactly 
>>>> what they have been programmed to expect.
>>>>
>>>> Robert Hind (Semi-retired)
>>>> Ashwood and Traralgon
>>>> robert at yinnar.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Kelly"
>>>> <kel at mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au>
>>>> To: "Year 12 IT Applications Teachers' Mailing List"
>>>> <itapps at edulists.com.au>
>>>> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 1:26 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Year 12 IT Apps] Examination reports
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Examiners' report, ITA Q12b:
>>>>>
>>>>> Quote
>>>>>
>>>>> Few students could correctly write the formula for the IF 
>>>>> statement =IF(C2>40, 'YES',' ').
>>>>>
>>>>> End Quote
>>>>>
>>>>> And fewer examiners could either, apparently:  double quotes 
>>>>> rather than single quotes are needed (at least in Excel, which is 
>>>>> the undeclared standard for all spreadsheet questions in the exam).
>>>>>
>>>>> It does bug me when a commentary on what is correct and what is 
>>>>> not gets it wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> Christophersen, Paula P wrote:
>>>>>> Dear colleagues
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  In case you are not aware, the examination reports for the 2008 
>>>>>> exams in IT apps and Software development are available at the 
>>>>>> following addresses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/it-applications/e
>>>>>> xams.ht
>>>>>> ml#H2N10037
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/softwaredevel/exa
>>>>>> ms.html
>>>>>> #H2N10037
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paula
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Paula Christophersen
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ICT Curriculum Manager
>>>>>>
>>>>>> VCAA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 41 St Andrews Place
>>>>>>
>>>>>> EAST MELBOURNE 3002
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (03) 9651 4378
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. 
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>>>>>> limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any 
>>>>>> representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual 
>>>>>> sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and
Early Childhood Development.
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mark Kelly
>>>>> Manager - Information Systems
>>>>> McKinnon Secondary College
>>>>> kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au
>>>>> McKinnon Rd, McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia Direct line / 
>>>>> Voicemail: 8520 9085 Fax +613 9578 9253
>>>>>
>>>>> Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au 
>>>>> <http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au/>
>>>>> IT Lecture notes: http://vceit.com <http://vceit.com/>
>>>>> Moderator: IT Applications Mailing List
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do people mis-spell 'grammar' and mispronounce 'pronuniciation'?
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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Information Technology
>>>>> Teachers Association Inc
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au/>  - FAQ, 
>>>> resources, subscribe, unsubscribe IT Applications Mailing List 
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>>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html
- Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
>>>> http://www.vitta.org.au <http://www.vitta.org.au/>   - VITTA Victorian
Information Technology
>>>> Teachers Association Inc
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au/>  - FAQ, 
>>> resources, subscribe, unsubscribe IT Applications Mailing List 
>>> kindly supported by 
>>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
>>> http://www.vitta.org.au <http://www.vitta.org.au/>   - VITTA Victorian
Information Technology Teachers
>>> Association Inc
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.edulists.com.au <http://www.edulists.com.au/>  - FAQ, 
>> resources, subscribe, unsubscribe IT Applications Mailing List kindly 
>> supported by 
>> http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
>> http://www.vitta.org.au <http://www.vitta.org.au/>   - VITTA Victorian
Information Technology Teachers
>> Association Inc
>>
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Roland Gesthuizen - ICT Coordinator - Westall Secondary College 
> http://www.westallsc.vic.edu.au <http://www.westallsc.vic.edu.au/>
> 
> "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can 
> change the world; indeed it is the only thing that ever has."
> --Margaret Mead
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> resources, subscribe, unsubscribe IT Applications Mailing List kindly 
> supported by
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/infotech/itapplications3-4.html -
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and
> http://www.vitta.org.au <http://www.vitta.org.au/>   - VITTA Victorian
Information Technology Teachers Association Inc
> 
> 
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> Teachers Association Inc

--
Mark Kelly
Manager - Information Systems
McKinnon Secondary College
McKinnon Rd McKinnon 3204, Victoria, Australia Direct line: 8520 9085 School
Phone +613 8520 9000
School Fax   +613 9578 9253
kel AT mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au

Webmaster - http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au IT Lecture notes:
http://vceit.com
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Some days you're the pigeon.  Some days you're the statue.

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